taxi paul Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Morning chaps. I am stuck still on my one car limit but wouldn't mind a scooter. The child in me would like a vespa px 125. However the sensible adult part.of me has seen one made by LML. It's an Indian brand using the same tooling has vespa. So am I better buying the older original or the brand new pretender for the same price. Not looking to go back to my youth but wouldn't mind a scooter for nipping round on instead of nipping in my jap 15mpg bus .So head or heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
They_all_do_that_sir Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 I think it's an LML star that JoeBai has.....and I haven't heard him complain about it. Cavcraft has something Vespa shaped that isn't doesn't he? From memory his looks pretty awesome too Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 LMLs are pretty good to be fair, (allegedly) partly owned by Vespa, LML have now gone bust. Jackie Two Shoes has one, there's a thread on it somewhere. IIRC, LML did a 125 two stroke and 125 and 200 4 strokes, 4 strokes can be had in manual or auto, all 2Ts were manual. Mine's a Scomadi, these are all automatic 4 strokes, either 125 (air cooled) or 200 (water cooled), though if you can afford it or can find one, there were a few genuine 300s made, but not many. Love mine (200) to bits, been very impressed with it so far. The new 'TT' (old ones were TL) range is out now with metal rather than plastic panels, and they do look nice. These are slowly pushing the prices of the TLs down so you should get a quite new one for less than a couple of grand no problem.Scomadis do have their issues, the speedo being one of the them as the originals go haywire and get replaced under warranty. The standard batteries are pretty crap too, to be honest, a £35 gel type one does the trick though. There have been some complaints about the front suspension being soft (though some say it can be adjusted, and mine's been fine) and some don't like the standard tyres. Lots of low mileage toys out there like mine, so aim for something with some warranty (2 years from new) left on it if you go for one. Scooters should be 2T and manual really, but these 4 stroke autos are so much easier and nicer to ride to be honest, especially in town, but they also go well on the open roads. There is a company somewhere that converts them to 172 Gilera 2T auto engines, have seen a couple of videos and they don't half go some. UltraWomble, Psycho Charlie Knobcheese and Junkman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebargeken Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Jacks scooter is ace. He said he had some electrical issues but that was mostly due to rupee pinching at the factory, wires not quite long enough. Stuff is interchangeable with the proper stuff too. Looks bloody identical as well, at least in my eyes. Would mind one just to play about with. Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi paul Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 Thank you all very much. I shall go mooching over the next few weeks and see what deals are available. I used to have a vespa so am leaning that way. Plus it may hold its value better in the long run. Seeing has they don't make them anymore. Didn't know lml have gone bust. Yours sound great cavcraft but was never a lover of lambrettas I'm afraid. I think 4 stroke auto is the way but twisty gears are good. I shall have a look . Give me something to do while kids are at school and foster child is sort of behaving. Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 They were still making 2T Vespas, they had a PX125 and PX150 option quite recently. The 4 stroke auto Vespas are very good to be fair, if you've passed your test a GTS300 would be a good way to get around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Given my total ignorance of the subject, can anyone give me the gist of Vespa Vs Lambretta? The only thing I associate with Lambrettas is Mods and stupid numbers of mirrors. What are the differences?Is it a social scene thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Personally speaking, Lambrettas look (much) better and sound much better. They’re also a lot less reliable, unfortunately. The odd run I used to go on, it was a Lammy that’d be the one that broke down or something fell off, where Vespas did seem a bit better.Not had a Lambretta yet but would absolutely love a tuned up one with a nice pipe, the noise they make at full chat is something else.Vespas go well enough and a 200 or a kitted 125 are grand for knocking about on. More recently there were some dreadful looking Lambretta LN125 automatics being made, but I think they were actually nothing to do with that company, who iirc threatened to sue themThere are now Lambretta automatics available which I think are actually owned by Lambretta. Being cynical, they’ve probably twigged that Scomadi and Royal Alloy look like they’re going to do well, and want a slice of the cake. Waters are further muddied by the fact Scomadis are a definite clone of the (original) Lambretta, and Royal Alloy are a rip-off of Scomadi! The latter took RA to court over copywrite but I think only won a partial victory.RA scooters were made in the same factory in China, but Scomadi moved production to Thailand iirc. They’re probably pretty much the same underneath, but having seen an RA close up last weekend it just looked sort of wrong. UltraWomble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC Rebel Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Well that caused a half-hour Wikipedia diversion - thanks all I now know more about Vespas and Lambrettas BLMC ended Lambrettas in Italy - who knew? Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 There were the later SIL (Scooters India Lambretta, iirc) which some scooter buffs derided as rubbish, but they are quite popular and he 200 engines sought after. There has been a little snobbery over the years from what I've seen, usually from Italian made Lambretta owners and often directed at SIL, LML, some Vespas, Scomadis and pretty much anything 4 stroke and/or automatic.Trouble is, a lot of the reliving their youth lads and lasses want something easier to ride and more reliable, so modern ones are really catching on now. I must hasten to add it's only a tiny, tiny minority of riders with the attitude, everyone else seem really friendly and don't care what you ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 There were the later SIL (Scooters India Lambretta, iirc) which some scooter buffs derided as rubbish, And don't forget the Indian Bajaj Chetak Vespa clones. I remember seeing them at the bike show, years ago, on the same stand as, unsurprisingly, Royal Enfields. They were sold in the UK, I've never seen one in the wild - but I wonder how many gained Vespa/Piaggio badges? Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 They're uite popular as it happens, possibly a genuine alternative to a more expensive Vespa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 And don't forget to call Stupid & Co for after sales improvements. Cavcraft, Jerzy Woking and AMC Rebel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi paul Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 Had a look in motorbike shop in Warrington. Couple of fellas in there my age from Salford scooter club. Anyway they had a new lambretta in there. The very very knowledgeable bloke from Salford gave me a less in in who builds what nowadays..The lambretta is built by lambretta itself. He tells me it is excellent quality . I agree with you I think they have noticed how well royal are going so have started building themselves. They were getting a delivery if royal Enfield while I was there. Made in China apparently, has is the new lambretta so he tells me. The Enfield are like big old war bikes and very nice. Not for me though. I shall keep mooching with winter coming I expect some good deals over the next couple of months maybe. I did price a Chinese ling long scooter. Very nice a grand cheaper than lambretta or lml and five year warranty. Just think a lambretta will be worth a lot more in two years.Although knowledgeable bloke tells me the SYM jet 125 I was looking at is the same engine and frame etc has the lambretta, although cheaper. So cosmetics and name or reliability. He was telling me if I want the reliability to look at the SYM scooters. Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Charlie Knobcheese Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Ex PX200 owner here... Many moons ago...Pretty sure the LML's are/were made with Piaggio tooling as they were made officially/under licence in India for Piaggio. Think there was some sort of dispute and LML continued to make them after the agreement had finished. As far as I know the LML 2 strokes are mechanically identical to the Vespas but with inferior bearings and build quality (as mentioned above).I think the LML's were seriously strangled to pass Euro pollution regs so you'd need to set aside a few quid for a non cat exhaust and airbox mods and jetting to get it to perform as originally designed-which wasn't exactly quick to begin with! Fond memories of heat seizing my P2 on the M5 and later my Simonini expansion chamber rotting through and riding over it when it fell off...Halcyon days! Cavcraft and taxi paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 They were getting a delivery if royal Enfield while I was there. Made in China apparently, has is the new lambretta so he tells me. A bit off topic but Royal Enfield motorbikes are made in India - they have 3 factories all in or near Chennai (formerly Madras). Jerzy Woking, Cavcraft and taxi paul 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi paul Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 Sorry sir . You are indeed correct. I believe the lml where made in India also. To be honest it seems an awful lot of these bikes and scooters are made in India and China under licence . Or in some case just copied. Bit like cars really. I read that the company who makes the SYM scooters also make cars and vans for Hyundai under licence. martc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Charlie Knobcheese Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 TaxiPaul- Have you considered buying second hand? There seems to be loads of Honda/Yamaha 4 stroke 125 autos out there which would probably out perform/handle/last better/cost less than something from Taiwan or China. Or india for that matter.Think Cavcraft had one for sale a few weeks back?They look a bit gash compared to 'proper' scooters but I reckon they'd be a lot easier to live with. taxi paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Didn’t someone say on here a while back that Honda and Yamaha have plants in China?Would be very surprised if there’s any noticeable build quality differences between Lambretta, Scomadi and RA. taxi paul and UltraWomble 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeyethenoo Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Recently bought an 2007 Honda PES125i. £400. Features such amazing things as fuel injection and electronic ignition. Claimed 14bhp. Spent about another ton on service parts and new tyres. It will hold a steady 62.5mph on the flat and I'm no skinny bastard. I really like it, although I must try and avoid riding it like a total knob in traffic/up the toon.... Same as this taxi paul and Psycho Charlie Knobcheese 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marm Toastsmith Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I had a T5 classic with mallossi kit etc fairly recently. It was quick and fun and never failed to start, but I did have some annoying electrical issues with it. It begged to be thrashed, wasn't fun to pootle on, so generally quite scary. Also, the brakes were crap and I had problems with missed gear shifts which were never solved despite chucking money at it. Maybe it was me... In the end I got bored of it, worried it would get nicked (London) etc. I think a PX125 is a better bet, but to be honest If I wanted another scooter I'd probably get a Honda Innova or a Sym Symba. I'd go for a C90 too, but they seem to be too much money for what they are... I used to like MZs, too, but these days I'm bored of unreliable, noisy, smelly two strokes. Psycho Charlie Knobcheese, taxi paul and Cavcraft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi paul Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 I have looked at second hand to be fair. Just trying to sort of research the models , so to speak. The honda looks like a good bet. Food for thought.thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Charlie Knobcheese Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Fair point Cavcraft- Wasn't suggesting things made in Taiwan/India etc were no good- just that anything tied to Honda/Yamaha might be a bit tighter on quality.I ragged a Hero Honda around India a few years back and it was brilliant. Cavcraft and taxi paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Didn’t someone say on here a while back that Honda and Yamaha have plants in China? Honda and Yamaha do have factories in China but they concentrate on feeding the insatiable appetite of the Chinese. I think most of the Honda scoots sold in the UK are made at their Italian plant and Yamaha's come from the old Motobecane (later MBK) factory in France. The ubiquitous Honda CB125 series is from India but the Yamaha YBR125 is Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Fair point Cavcraft- Wasn't suggesting things made in Taiwan/India etc were no good- just that anything tied to Honda/Yamaha might be a bit tighter on quality.I ragged a Hero Honda around India a few years back and it was brilliant. No worries, and I wasn't implying you were implying etc! I expect even some of the generic 50cc QuietMouse TurmericDogFiddle things are a bit better these days, tbh. Ironically, I wouldn't really commute on mine, it's more of a weekend toy type of thing. A cheap Japanese or Taiwanese or whatever 125 automatic would be the way forward for every day/commuting imho. MartC: CG125s are fantastic things, and those YBRs look lovely. Psycho Charlie Knobcheese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Charlie Knobcheese Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 No worries, and I wasn't implying you were implying etc! I expect even some of the generic 50cc QuietMouse TurmericDogFiddle things are a bit better these days, tbh. Ironically, I wouldn't really commute on mine, it's more of a weekend toy type of thing. A cheap Japanese or Taiwanese or whatever 125 automatic would be the way forward for every day/commuting imho. MartC: CG125s are fantastic things, and those YBRs look lovely. Ha! I'm a bit behind the times with all the satellite factories springing up everywhere- I had a look at a mates sons YZF R125 thing the other day and it had an MBK sticker on the frame Cavcraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Moped based conundrum.... My neighbours moved out recently. They were big into bikes and I spent many a happy hour chatting Akrapovic exhausts and lending them tools and shiz. Nice bunch. Anyway.... They moved out a couple of weeks back to return to Lithuania and have left a Peugeot V-Clic sitting down the side of their garage. Now my logic is if I don’t lift it, the local wronguns will and undoubtedly some 14 year old will end up under a bus following a low speed Police chase. The plate is detached from it and lying in a bush. Part of me wants to stash it for safe keeping in case they return but realise I am opening myself up to accusations of theft if I do. So I am thinking of applying for ownership and see if a V5 comes back. I do realise David (one of the neighbours) planned to get it running but never did, not sure if he ran out of time or whether it is terminally jiggered. I also have no idea where he got it so no idea if it’s nicked. So what do we think? Does putting it in my garage for safe keeping make me a criminal or shall I just wait until the locals notice it and take it anyway? Cavcraft and purplebargeken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi paul Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 I would take it for safe keeping. I shall share this coco up of mine this week. My neighbours got evicted and I offered to put his motorbike in mine for safe keeping g. Now then all I knew and his sister , who I was dealing with knew. Was that before the fella who owned it had a breakdown and got sectioned around four years ago. Was that he had pitit into the garage . Chained it up and landlocked said garage. So skip to this week while she was getting her belongings from the house. We couldn't find keys or log book. So next day council turn up to empty the house and I ask them to keep an eye out for keys or logbook. Now consider the house was like Mr trebus's famous dwelling. Tells the workers about bike in garage etc. They eventually get to emptying garage and I go for a look to sort out this bike. Well bike was there BUT. The lad had taken it apart and it was now in bits strewn through a rubbish filled garage. So it came out in bits and went straight on the back of the scrap van. I couldn't be arsed looking for all the bolts and wires and everything else that hadn't been chewed by rats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebargeken Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I'd love to tinker with an LML just like Jacks. Also fancy a Royal Enfield tbh. taxi paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Put it in your garage, do your best to contact them in Lithuania and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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