invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[brummiejon]

7 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Wasn't so much of an issue in the 1930s.

Mine was made in 1953

[plasticvandan]

Yes,but it hadn't changed from when they were first created in the mid 20s. Likewise traffic wouldn't have been that much heavier or faster in 53 than 33. People were smaller and weighed less then as well so top speed was probably higher.

 

[brummiejon]

2 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Yes,but it hadn't changed from when they were first created in the mid 20s. Likewise traffic wouldn't have been that much heavier or faster in 53 than 33. People were smaller and weighed less then as well so top speed was probably higher.

 

I guess the motor might benefit from an overhaul too. Just passed the 2000 mile... I have no reason to believe it's not genuine.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Yes,but it hadn't changed from when they were first created in the mid 20s. Likewise traffic wouldn't have been that much heavier or faster in 53 than 33. People were smaller and weighed less then as well so top speed was probably higher.

1 hour ago, brummiejon said:

I guess the motor might benefit from an overhaul too. Just passed the 2000 mile... I have no reason to believe it's not genuine.

oh the top speed genuinely is 12Mph as per my 1952 edition of the Stanley Argson Electric Instruction book which I was lucky enough to win on eBay recently  (and its 6Mph in low range and 4Mph in reverse for those curious)

its provided a most interesting read in its own right  

it tickles me how the tyre pressure for the front tyre is given as  a fairly vague"to  just thumb hardness" and the batteries is just "yeah thats not for you to worry about" 

this being a handbook for a Ministry issued machine, which fascinatingly had details of the machine it was issued with scribed on the inside of the front cover

its sister car funnily enough was one I discovered as having existed, a few years back  

there are also number of fold out things, including wiring diagrams, but most have come apart and been taped back together in the long distant part, and it makes it tricky to fold them out flat to get a good photograph of them, but i was able to get a good shot of the lubrication chart

 

 

if you wanted a speedier machine thats what the Villers Petrol powered Stanley Argson was for, lets not forget that Stanley also made petrol machines

Electric machines where explicitly produced for those who genuinely did not want to go fast, wanted a quiet soft going machine, or had some major disability that required them to have a very easy to control machine, (this later point is what made the Invacar such a big deal at the time, it was the first petrol machine that could be entirely 1 hand controlled. prior to the invention of the Invacar and its unique control scheme in the 1940's if you only had 1 functioning limb, you where relegated to electric machines regardless if you wanted one or not)

[lesapandre]

I must say this is absolutely fascinating - a really interesting motoring subject.

This is a much cruder hand-cranked affair I spotted in France last year.

[lesapandre]

And this. It's moved by pulling the 'steering wheel' backwards and forwards. They were in a junk shop in a village I passed through. Next time I see something I will buy it - they were about €100 each.

These are possibility for WWI disabled veterans. 

Somewhere I have a whole 1920's French book on the subject of adaptations - I will look it out.

What's somewhat forgotten is notwithstanding the huge numbers killed in WWI - immense numbers also were maimed or lost limbs.

A whole industry grew up around adaptation.

[LightBulbFun]

those look a bit far gone for €100, I think with a bit of sleuthing you could find some for not much more in much better condition, I have certainly seen a few of each of those types floating about in better condition then those  (although I admit foreign carriages are a bit outside my wheelhouse, although I still really-really want to see someone import and register an SMZ Invalidka here in the UK)

[Andrew353w]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

Electric machines where explicitly produced for those who genuinely did not want to go fast, wanted a quiet soft going machine, or had some major disability that required them to have a very easy to control machine, 

I'm tempted to suggest "plus ça change", but perhaps I ought not......

[lesapandre]

15 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

those look a bit far gone for €100, I think with a bit of sleuthing you could find some for not much more in much better condition, I have certainly seen a few of each of those types floating about in better condition then those  (although I admit foreign carriages are a bit outside my wheelhouse, although I still really-really want to see someone import and register an SMZ Invalidka here in the UK)

I will see what's about. 👍👍

[plasticvandan]

I paid £75 for a rough Harding hand propelled carriage 20 years ago,restored it and sold it for £350, limited market of course 

[brummiejon]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh the top speed genuinely is 12Mph as per my 1952 edition of the Stanley Argson Electric Instruction book which I was lucky enough to win on eBay recently  (and its 6Mph in low range and 4Mph in reverse for those curious)

its provided a most interesting read in its own right  

it tickles me how the tyre pressure for the front tyre is given as  a fairly vague"to  just thumb hardness" and the batteries is just "yeah thats not for you to worry about" 

this being a handbook for a Ministry issued machine, which fascinatingly had details of the machine it was issued with scribed on the inside of the front cover

its sister car funnily enough was one I discovered as having existed, a few years back  

there are also number of fold out things, including wiring diagrams, but most have come apart and been taped back together in the long distant part, and it makes it tricky to fold them out flat to get a good photograph of them, but i was able to get a good shot of the lubrication chart

 

 

if you wanted a speedier machine thats what the Villers Petrol powered Stanley Argson was for, lets not forget that Stanley also made petrol machines

Electric machines where explicitly produced for those who genuinely did not want to go fast, wanted a quiet soft going machine, or had some major disability that required them to have a very easy to control machine, (this later point is what made the Invacar such a big deal at the time, it was the first petrol machine that could be entirely 1 hand controlled. prior to the invention of the Invacar and its unique control scheme in the 1940's if you only had 1 functioning limb, you where relegated to electric machines regardless if you wanted one or not)

Oh wow, what a find @LightBulbFun

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of going fast tho  I had a big trip out in REV today

so the first stop was petrol, 2335 at last fill up, 23419 at this fill up, 13.74L went in, so I make that to be about 28 mpg?

and then onwards to my destination!

some 53 miles covered the fair majority of it of at speed along the A2 and M25 (Junctions 2 to 6 if someone wants to figure out how many miles that was!) as I was heading down south 

and REV despite being quite heavily laden with stuff for this trip, handled it without any big issue  I think the only issue that did arise Is I think I have developed an exhaust blow somewhere, as a ticking/chuffing noise made itself apparent suddenly, while I was at speed, and its one that varies with engine, speed, and so im pretty sure going by where it sounds like its coming the *other* down-pipe now has blown (it did look a bit suspect last time I was under there) thankfully if it is indeed that side that has gone, it is the side I do have a spare down pipe for, but its something ill investigate more in depth in the coming days, im not too worried about it otherwise (can always try bandage it up like last time!)

also did discover the fun that is road-spray, overtake a lorry and oh look at that my windscreen is now opaque! safe to say I went through quite a bit of screen wash LOL but she handled it fine otherwise, in regards to that I found I could overtake lorries or be passed by lorries without any issue of being blown about the place etc

no new speed records however, as in typical M25 fashion there was lots of 50Mph road work type restrictions about the place and all the un-restricted bits seemed to be ever so slightly up hill so it although I hit 60Mph a couple times (mainly on the A2) I was mostly flat out at 55 for the majority of it otherwise, I also have now clocked up, over 300 miles since she arrived home, and just a couple miles short of 400 since I bought her  

[uk_senator]

20 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

well they certainly put the engine in the classic Fiat 500 and Fiat 126, because thats the origin story of the Steyr puch flat twin engine  Steyr puch after the war etc, wanted to build a small car as everyone else was doing and was developing something, but realised it was uneconomic to start production of a totally new car, so they instead purchased Fiat 500 bodyshells and put their own much better engine and gearbox into them (from that small car they where developing)

it is something I have wondered about tho, as I dont think there was ever an Automatic Fiat 500 otherwise? 

I knew there was a market for some Steyr Puch lumps in 500`s, I`m not sure which ones.

As far as I remember, there were no small Fiat auto`s till the Panda/Unos got CVT`s in the mid 80`s? I dont remember there being an auto Strada either 🤔... There was definitely a 131 & 132 auto option though.. Seems like a bit of an oversight now, seeing as you could get auto Mini`s decades before, but then, I don't recall many other small auto`s till the mid 80`s from other European manufacturers either, & that carried on.. I mean, you couldn't get an auto Mk1 Ka either, right into the 2000`s.

[Andrew353w]

Your 28 mpg calculation's correct, but, in my opinion, poor, given the light weight of REV. Although I know, from experience, that vehicles with C.V.T. don't have particularly good urban mpg figures, as the transmission changes down too easily at low speeds. The opposite's also true, as my Daf has returned over 50 mpg on long runs on motorways! 

[brummiejon]

18 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh the top speed genuinely is 12Mph as per my 1952 edition of the Stanley Argson Electric Instruction book which I was lucky enough to win on eBay recently  (and its 6Mph in low range and 4Mph in reverse for those curious)

its provided a most interesting read in its own right  

it tickles me how the tyre pressure for the front tyre is given as  a fairly vague"to  just thumb hardness" and the batteries is just "yeah thats not for you to worry about" 

this being a handbook for a Ministry issued machine, which fascinatingly had details of the machine it was issued with scribed on the inside of the front cover

its sister car funnily enough was one I discovered as having existed, a few years back  

there are also number of fold out things, including wiring diagrams, but most have come apart and been taped back together in the long distant part, and it makes it tricky to fold them out flat to get a good photograph of them, but i was able to get a good shot of the lubrication chart

 

 

if you wanted a speedier machine thats what the Villers Petrol powered Stanley Argson was for, lets not forget that Stanley also made petrol machines

Electric machines where explicitly produced for those who genuinely did not want to go fast, wanted a quiet soft going machine, or had some major disability that required them to have a very easy to control machine, (this later point is what made the Invacar such a big deal at the time, it was the first petrol machine that could be entirely 1 hand controlled. prior to the invention of the Invacar and its unique control scheme in the 1940's if you only had 1 functioning limb, you where relegated to electric machines regardless if you wanted one or not)

This post is so useful to me, I had been woundering which oil and how much to put in the differential. I drained what was in it before and put the same amount back in but was never sure i9f it had lost any... 1/4 pint of Shell Spirax worm oil is great news. I have used millers EP90 gear oil which is probable OK but I'm goint to drain it and make sure I put a quarter pint back in....

Another observation which is a little odd, it is an Argson Deluxe spec but with girder forks, so mine may not be quite so anomolous for its age after all, Stanley Engineering clearly mixed and matched.

An Agson running on diesel is a new one on me

 

 

[plasticvandan]

Ep oil shouldn't be used in anything with brass or bronze as it will attack them,so wise to get that out

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Ep oil shouldn't be used in anything with brass or bronze as it will attack them,so wise to get that out

Yes. It eats into the metal and will ruin the GB or diff. Give it a good flush.

[lesapandre]

6 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

Your 28 mpg calculation's correct, but, in my opinion, poor, given the light weight of REV. Although I know, from experience, that vehicles with C.V.T. don't have particularly good urban mpg figures, as the transmission changes down too easily at low speeds. The opposite's also true, as my Daf has returned over 50 mpg on long runs on motorways! 

Seems fair enough at around 30mpg in London's stop-start traffic, the M25 is little better.

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, brummiejon said:

This post is so useful to me, I had been woundering which oil and how much to put in the differential. I drained what was in it before and put the same amount back in but was never sure i9f it had lost any... 1/4 pint of Shell Spirax worm oil is great news. I have used millers EP90 gear oil which is probable OK but I'm goint to drain it and make sure I put a quarter pint back in....

Another observation which is a little odd, it is an Argson Deluxe spec but with girder forks, so mine may not be quite so anomolous for its age after all, Stanley Engineering clearly mixed and matched.

An Agson running on diesel is a new one on me

 

Awesome glad even just those snippets have been of use, I did grab it with you in mind, since I know you did try and get one in the past but got outbid, when I can ill try and grab pictures of the rest of the pages, and hopefully at some point, get it scanned in properly, I have a fair few of these Handbooks now for Various AC and Invacars that really need digitising properly  

10 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

Your 28 mpg calculation's correct, but, in my opinion, poor, given the light weight of REV. Although I know, from experience, that vehicles with C.V.T. don't have particularly good urban mpg figures, as the transmission changes down too easily at low speeds. The opposite's also true, as my Daf has returned over 50 mpg on long runs on motorways! 

ill take 28! running around London's 20 zones I usually get about 20-22 mpg if previous fill ups are to go by I suspect the better then usual 28 mpg is because of the 2 fast runs I did in REV (the impromptu run up the A12/A2/20 for the mercury lamps and the short  hop on the M1 for the computers) during that 84 mile period  

[plasticvandan]

I think I have a tippen and Barret handbook in my collection,I did have a lot more but sold them to people more in need 😄 I think I would still hope for a bit more than 28mpg, especially if running on E5, though I suspect the auto transmission saps a fair bit.

[LightBulbFun]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 I think the only issue that did arise Is I think I have developed an exhaust blow somewhere, as a ticking/chuffing noise made itself apparent suddenly, while I was at speed, and its one that varies with engine, speed, and so im pretty sure going by where it sounds like its coming the *other* down-pipe now has blown (it did look a bit suspect last time I was under there) thankfully if it is indeed that side that has gone, it is the side I do have a spare down pipe for, but its something ill investigate more in depth in the coming days, im not too worried about it otherwise (can always try bandage it up like last time!)

I did get a brief chance to look at this and like I suspected tis indeed the offside right that has failed, in a little bit on awkward spot as you cant really get a bandage around that I dont think (because of the tinwork above it) I am curious if anyone has any ideas? should I just try cover the area in exhaust paste or something? obviously the long term/best solution is to replace both of the downpipes and I do plan for that to happen at some point, (and maybe a medium term one might be seeing if I can get this hole welded up, like how the other one was plated ut), but I am curious if there any short term/quick fixes I can try? 

[lesapandre]

Yes that's easily dealt with for a medium term bodge.

Wrap it a good quality 'wettable' exhaust bandage on a warm exhaust and then attach a right-size exhaust clamp to the bandaged section - the type with the sliding circumference sleeve - this is a 90mm length one.

If you cannot get one short enough - one should just about fit - cut one down and move the clamps themselves closer together. Wait for the bandage to harden off - 24 hours and job should be a good-un.

That's a classic place for a hole where moisture collects.

👍🍀

[lesapandre]

You will obviously need to dismantle the clamp and bend it to get it round. But on a cheapish clamp should not be a problem. Will give it a few more months life.

If there is not enough space between the tinwork above and the exhaust  - I'd try wrapping the bandage diagonally and try and squeeze the sleeve through the gap.

👍👍

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

Yes that's easily dealt with for a medium term bodge.

Wrap it a good quality 'wettable' exhaust bandage on a warm exhaust and then attach a right-size exhaust clamp to the bandaged section - the type with the sliding circumference sleeve - this is a 90mm length one.

the problem with that is there is tin work directly above it so I cant wrap anything around it as I dont think theres any gap to pass anything through the top

I need an exhaust plaster if such a thing rather then a wrap around exhaust bandage   

[lesapandre]

As long as you can get the sleeve though the gap - the clamps can be set either side. 

Look online for anything with the slenderest components.

But if there is no gap at all - clearly it won't work. But you may still be able to bandage diagonally and get a single clamp on one side. Have a look round for anything that might fit. 

I have also used a cut- up coke can and jubilee clips. 🤣

[Datsuncog]

Sounds like a job for...

 

[plasticvandan]

A coke can,some paste,and two jubilee clips would bodge it well for a while,don't even have to dismantle anything (jubilees come apart in case you didn't know)

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

1 minute ago, plasticvandan said:

A coke can,some paste,and two jubilee clips would bodge it well for a while,don't even have to dismantle anything (jubilees come apart in case you didn't know)

 

I was just about to suggest this. Done it several times and it works well.

[Mrs6C]

^^^ What they said, really, though I'd use a baked bean tin and jubilee clips, with a wodge of exhaust paste. Something like this:

 

Could also be the excuse you need to pop along to that Fiat 500 specialist and ask if they could weld a patch on, also change the belts and do an oil service for you - to make it worth their while.

 

 

[lesapandre]

The clamps tend to last longer - but only if there is space. 🥸