invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Six-cylinder]

As soon as the weather looks good and warm enough to camp we will open the FoD again. 

[LightBulbFun]

On 08/03/2021 at 00:07, LightBulbFun said:

in other Invacar news (of which there has been a lot flying around today, iv been flat out! I bet Stuart is reading this, chuckling to himself while drinking a Dry martini or something being glad he retired from all this! all good fun tho )

 

 

I have been contacted recently by a person who has an AC Model 70 they wish to sell, and they contacted me about it, as they did not simply want to throw it on ebay and more wanted to find a good home for it rather then outright profit 

so I figured id post some pictures of it here and gauge interest etc figure out who is serious etc  

the chap wants about £1.2K for I know which is strong money here, but in the scheme of things is sadly! not so bad, given what Model 70's sadly go for these days on ebay etc!

as you can see from the pictures she is TPE285S and she is from the same field of Model 70's that TWC725K and TPA621M was rescued from  

so that should give you a general idea of sort of shape she is in and what sort of stuff and work she will need, the engine does turn over freely by hand although has not been fired up AFAIK

there is some bodywork damage, but all the bodywork is all there, theres no large chunks missing, its mostly cracks and the such like

Glass is all there except for nearside window glass (although I dont know if thats not there or simply not pictured/was removed for safe keeping, I need to check, but for now assume its not there and is missing in action)

so she is definitely a project rather then something you can get in and drive, but it should be a workable project!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(really interesting to see a handle on the roof outside like this, iv never seen it before on another Model 70 Im guessing it was installed so a user could grab ahold of it and hoist him or herself up or something such)

just as a gentle reminder, this AC Model 70 is still for sale  

or at least im petty sure it is, the person who has it has not told me they have sold it yet, so hopefully I can still find it a good home on here!

 

and while im in sales mode, things have finally progressed a bit more with Stuarts big book, and he is now looking for donations to help fund its publishing 

https://www.invalidcarriageregister.org/donate-now

so for those interested in the Big book a donation of any amount would be appreciated  

(I know most people here are somewhat justifiably so not a fan of the ICR, but this is specific to get the Stuarts big Invalid carriage book published and out the door etc! )

[Mr Pastry]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

(I know most people here are somewhat justifiably so not a fan of the ICR, but this is specific to get the Stuarts big Invalid carriage book published and out the door etc! )

Has Stuart run this book past the Michael Sedgewick Memorial Trust?  He should.

[AdgeCutler]

Another short video of Brian the Invacars stripdown: 

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, AdgeCutler said:

Another short video of Brian the Invacars stripdown: 

 

ouch thats quite crispy! sorry to hear the chassis so far gone! but I look forward to seeing your new chassis for her (him?)  

its interesting to see the chassis stripped down so far, I had no idea the rear end could detach like that (or did you have to cut some welds for that?)

 

BTW while you have the old chassis apart like that, please do keep an eye out for any chassis numbers stamped in the chassis itself if you can

if you find something, it would hopefully allow a good number of Invacar Mk12's who's chassis plates are missing, to finally be ID'ed

we know where the chassis stamped chassis number is on Model 70's thankfully (very thankfully given how many Model 70's have had their ID's messed with or have otherwise been stripped of their ID!)

but when it comes to Villiers machines we sadly dont know anything (or if they even had a chassis stamped chassis number in the first place)

but I am hoping something can be found  

[Six-cylinder]

You had your tyre pressures checked today thanks to @Slowsilver.

4Ibs down on the front and others spot on.

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

You had your tyre pressures checked today thanks to @Slowsilver.

4Ibs down on the front and others spot on.

ah awesome, thanks for checking that @Slowsilver  

(im curious what are they currently set too?)

funny that the front went down, as I think TPA's front has a tendency to go down a couple LBS as well

maybe the front tyre gets lonely up front all on its own! LOL

[AdgeCutler]

23 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ouch thats quite crispy! sorry to hear the chassis so far gone! but I look forward to seeing your new chassis for her (him?)  

its interesting to see the chassis stripped down so far, I had no idea the rear end could detach like that (or did you have to cut some welds for that?)

 

BTW while you have the old chassis apart like that, please do keep an eye out for any chassis numbers stamped in the chassis itself if you can

if you find something, it would hopefully allow a good number of Invacar Mk12's who's chassis plates are missing, to finally be ID'ed

we know where the chassis stamped chassis number is on Model 70's thankfully (very thankfully given how many Model 70's have had their ID's messed with or have otherwise been stripped of their ID!)

but when it comes to Villiers machines we sadly dont know anything (or if they even had a chassis stamped chassis number in the first place)

but I am hoping something can be found  

All the rear section which consists of the suspension assembly and engine cradle is held by four bolts each side through the rear outriggers and two bolts through the central spar further towards the rear. 

I have been keeping eyes open for any obvious markings but none have presented themselves. I

f it ever was marked it could well have been in one of the areas that has returned to the soil.

[Mrs6C]

10 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I have been keeping eyes open for any obvious markings but none have presented themselves

Anything stamped in the big longitudinal or transverse chassis tubes or on one of the front uprights?

 

 

[AdgeCutler]

That's where I expected to find something, but no.

[Slowsilver]

14 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah awesome, thanks for checking that @Slowsilver  
(im curious what are they currently set too?)
funny that the front went down, as I think TPA's front has a tendency to go down a couple LBS as well
maybe the front tyre gets lonely up front all on its own! LOL

The tyres were fitted in July 2020 and I set them all to 30psi. I know that the correct pressures are less than this but I suspected that they would be standing for some time and hence would lose a bit.  Only one was actually still at 30, REV's offside rear. It's nearside rear was at 28 and, as mentioned, the front was at 26. I also checked Dolly's and they were all about 28. This seems reasonable after nine months of mostly standing. They have all been reset to 30 now. On a four wheeler I would normally expect the two at the engine end to lose the most due to the extra weight at that end, but obviously with an Invacar the engine weight is shared by both back wheels whereas the single front wheel supports all the frontal weight on its own, so who knows what is normal for these. I don't think this amount of pressure loss is any cause for concern.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Good afternoon all! Thanks for the fascinating Invalid Carriage information! Watched a couple of the videos just now. 

I'd never heard of these cars until a family holiday in 1999 took us to a car museum in Cornwall. 

They had a number of different versions. More than just a couple. They were hoping to get some working and roadworthy but there was some sort of regulatory problem at the time. 

I wish I had remembered where that museum was and what it was called. I also wish I'd kept the Practical Motorist Magazines from the 'fifties too... 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Slowsilver said:

The tyres were fitted in July 2020 and I set them all to 30psi. I know that the correct pressures are less than this but I suspected that they would be standing for some time and hence would lose a bit.  Only one was actually still at 30, REV's offside rear. It's nearside rear was at 28 and, as mentioned, the front was at 26. I also checked Dolly's and they were all about 28. This seems reasonable after nine months of mostly standing. They have all been reset to 30 now. On a four wheeler I would normally expect the two at the engine end to lose the most due to the extra weight at that end, but obviously with an Invacar the engine weight is shared by both back wheels whereas the single front wheel supports all the frontal weight on its own, so who knows what is normal for these. I don't think this amount of pressure loss is any cause for concern.

ah cool, Yeah I had feeling it was something like that and yeah its a good idea until I get her on the road, I appreciate it  

yeah normally id expect the rears to go down, especially so in an invacar all the weight is over the rear, the front end is light enough that you can pick it up and reposition it! 

so I think the front going down is an un-related thing, because as you say it should be the rears that go down first

official figures for a 12 inch wheeled Model 70 are 22 rear 17 front! I dont know sadly what it is for a 10 inch wheeled car, but I know Zel has TPA dialled in pretty well, so ill probably use his tyre pressure figures when the time comes

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Good afternoon all! Thanks for the fascinating Invalid Carriage information! Watched a couple of the videos just now. 

I'd never heard of these cars until a family holiday in 1999 took us to a car museum in Cornwall. 

They had a number of different versions. More than just a couple. They were hoping to get some working and roadworthy but there was some sort of regulatory problem at the time. 

I wish I had remembered where that museum was and what it was called. I also wish I'd kept the Practical Motorist Magazines from the 'fifties too... 

Hello welcome to the Invacar thread  

glad your enjoying what your seeing so far  

 

the Car museum your probably thinking about is the combe martin motorcycle museum

back in the Mid 1990's Julian Nowill, the chap who founded the ICR managed to convince the DHSS at the time to donate/offer up some Villiers machines to various museums and the such like, before they all went extinct 

most museums just went "ahh ill have one or something" and most got an AC Model 57, but Combe Martin was a bit more aware of things went "ooh yeah! ill have one of each Villiers type!"

and so they got an AC Acedes Model 57 FPD167B, a Model 59 Tippen Delta 8 OWK282G, 2 Model 66 Invacar Mk12E's KWC896J and LVX250J, and an AC Acedes Mk15, Model 67, DPD778J 

they also had numerous other older Invalid carriages of various types

sadly at some point I think they either closed down or downsized all the Invalid vehicles where sold off. such a shame as it was great display of all the Various Villiers machines!

here are some pictures I have of the Combe Martin cars  

do let me know if this is what you saw  

 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

15 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Hello welcome to the Invacar thread  

glad your enjoying what your seeing so far  

 

the Car museum your probably thinking about is the combe martin motorcycle museum

back in the Mid 1990's Julian Nowill, the chap who founded the ICR managed to convince the DHSS at the time to donate/offer up some Villiers machines to various museums and the such like, before they all went extinct 

most museums just went "ahh ill have one or something" and most got an AC Model 57, but Combe Martin was a bit more aware of things went "ooh yeah! ill have one of each Villers type!"

and so they got an AC Acedes Model 57 FPD167B, a Model 59 Tippen Delta 8 OWK282G, 2 Model 66 Invacar Mk12E's KWC896J and LVX250J, an AC Acedes Mk15, Model 67, DPD778J 

they also had numerous other older Invalid carriages of various types

sadly at some point I think they either closed down or downsized all the Invalid vehicles where sold off. such a shame as it was great display of all the Various Villers machines!

here are some pictures I have of the Combe Martin cars  

do let me know if this is what you saw  

 

Yep! That was the place! Thank you very much for finding these pictures! Great memories! I remember on the drive down there- in the first VW Lupo in Kent- it was foggy and so I had* to use my Front Fog Lamps. Much to the chagrin of a chap in a brand new Rover 800 who flashed his Full Beam many times! 

These pictures must have been taken at around that time. I hope all of the cars survived! 

Did I remember correctly about the Motor Vehicle Regulations? 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

46 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Good afternoon all! Thanks for the fascinating Invalid Carriage information! Watched a couple of the videos just now. 

I'd never heard of these cars until a family holiday in 1999 took us to a car museum in Cornwall. 

They had a number of different versions. More than just a couple. They were hoping to get some working and roadworthy but there was some sort of regulatory problem at the time. 

I wish I had remembered where that museum was and what it was called. I also wish I'd kept the Practical Motorist Magazines from the 'fifties too... 

I'm wondering if the museum was Automobilia in St Stephen? It closed in 2002. The place was only a couple of miles from where I grew up, although I only visited once in my late teens. My memories of it are limited, although I do recall it was very old fashioned and had the feel of a place which was costing more to run than the owners generated in income. 

Some interesting notes here: http://newquaytown.com/automobilia-motor-museum-st-stephens-cornwall

 

 

Edit: Scrap the above- I see LBF has already solved the mystery! 😂

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Yep! That was the place! Thank you very much for finding these pictures! Great memories! I remember on the drive down there- in the first VW Lupo in Kent- it was foggy and so I had* to use my Front Fog Lamps. Much to the chagrin of a chap in a brand new Rover 800 who flashed his Full Beam many times! 

These pictures must have been taken at around that time. I hope all of the cars survived! 

No problem glad to have been able to bring back some good memories  

AFAIK, all invalid vehicles from the museum survive, but the current whereabouts of some are sadly unknown

2 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Did I remember correctly about the Motor Vehicle Regulations? 

there was no such regulatory problem directly with regards to invalid vehicles at the time, plenty of Invacars where still running around in 1999

but I think the issue they would have had with the museum cars is each museum had to sign a contract of sorts with the IVS (invalid vehicle service) to say they would not return them to the road and they would be museum pieces only

 

although today that contract is void as the IVS no longer exist, so all the cars are free to run around once more

and indeed JBY503J (ex LVX250J) which is now in private hands is in fact the only known Invacar Mk12 on the road! (and I think the only known fulled bodied Villers machine on the road full stop)

(which is where the above picture of it comes from, when @egg met up the with the owner to have a small drive of it  I think that makes Egg the only person on this forum to have driven a Villiers invacar!)

[Leyland Worldmaster]

26 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I'm wondering if the museum was Automobilia in St Stephen? It closed in 2002. The place was only a couple of miles from where I grew up, although I only visited once in my late teens. My memories of it are limited, although I do recall it was very old fashioned and had the feel of a place which was costing more to run than the owners generated in income. 

Some interesting notes here: http://newquaytown.com/automobilia-motor-museum-st-stephens-cornwall

 

 

Edit: Scrap the above- I see LBF has already solved the mystery! 😂

Thanks for sharing the video, Dick! The first thing I noticed was that people were talking to one and other. Also, no Mobile Telephones are being used to capture images and post on Insta-Face or Book Gram! 

😎 👍 👍 👍 

[AdgeCutler]

A small but significant step was taken today and the first move toward building the new chassis has been undertaken. I popped over to a friends workshop and he kindly milled the 1 1/2" radius into one of my lengths of 3" tube in order to let in the transverse section of the main "T" of the chassis, this was also cut to length while we were there. I hope that tomorrow I can also drop my drawing of the outriggers into the chap that is going to form them for me.

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

A small but significant step was taken today and the first move toward build the new chassis has been undertaken. I popped over to a friends workshop and he kindly milled the 1 1/2" radius into one of my lengths of 3" tube in order to let in the transverse section of the main "T" of the chassis, this was also cut to length while we were there. I hope that tomorrow I can also drop my drawing of the outriggers into the chap that is going to form them for me.

ohhh thats very exciting!

not only is it very exciting to see an Invacar Mk12 get this level of love, but the work you do here will be invaluable for all other surviving Mk12's out there in need of chassis repair or replacement

some fabrication porn too FTW  

Keep up the awesome work!

 

as a side note, it was interesting to see just how flimsy the original Invacar Mk12's backbone and out riggers where, I never realised just how thin they where, they sounded like Body panel sections when you put them down rather then thick walled chassis sections!

 

[AdgeCutler]

I expect one of the design parameters was to keep within a light weight, a potentially large person along with half a car is quite a lot for a 200cc engine. Also there's been quite large percentage of metal lost during the Oxidisation weight reduction! 

Another little video, including noisy neighbouring children:

 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I expect one of the design parameters was to keep within a light weight, a potentially large person along with half a car is quite a lot for a 200cc engine. Also there's been quite large percentage of metal lost during the Oxidisation weight reduction! 

Another little video, including noisy neighbouring children:

 

very cool! very interesting to see how it all comes apart and goes together  

Hopefully this 3rd engine is 3rd time lucky as they say!

[AdgeCutler]

33 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

very cool! very interesting to see how it all comes apart and goes together  

Hopefully this 3rd engine is 3rd time lucky as they say!

Sadly not, lots of metric threaded fixings forced in, important fixings missing altogether, cracked castings, two off three Woodruff keys on the crankshaft sheared off, the butchers have been at work  . However I have gleaned a few components from it that will go into the final build and others to be kept as spares. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, AdgeCutler said:

Sadly not, lots of metric threaded fixings forced in, important fixings missing altogether, cracked castings, two off three Woodruff keys on the crankshaft sheared off, the butchers have been at work  . However I have gleaned a few components from it that will go into the final build and others to be kept as spares. 

Eeep! sorry to hear everything seems to be fighting you every step of the way

but I do thank you for persevering with it! especially given how few Invacar Mk12's there are still existent in the first place (about 38 or 39 if you count MVX977J) and of those only a small number are in any sort of decent shape sadly and as above only 1 out of all is actually road worthy!

so its very awesome to see one being restored/recommissioned despite all the odds stacked against it  

[AdgeCutler]

Another Dynastart for the collection!

 

[LightBulbFun]

20 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Another Dynastart for the collection!

 

interesting stuff! seeing how worn the brushes are on your Dynastart units

makes me wonder what the brushes are like in the Dynastarts of the Various Model 70's floating around on this forum! 

 

[LightBulbFun]

heres an interesting one!

Stuart was watching Murder maps on TV when he spotted this! (Season 4 Episode 4)

apparently its a modern day recreation of this scene that Iv posted about before 

so it begs the question, where did they get the AC from?! and props to whoever setup the scene who knew specifically to get an AC Model 57 (well the one in the recreation could be a Model 64, stuart says you never see the rear end in the recreation so it could be either, but for what its worth the actual machine in period is an AC Acedes Model 57 Mk10)

my best guess currently is that its NPB840D, but otherwise im not sure, there are not many surviving Metal AC's and certainly not many in that shiny a shape!

(I highly doubt its the actual FPD214B unless its been sitting in a police impound lot for the past 60 years!)

[LightBulbFun]

Whoa! check it out another full bodied Harding Consort! it will be very interesting to hear stuart has to say about it!  

especially if it really is from 1955 since his small book mentions them only being introduced in 1956!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164798448899

 

[Eyersey1234]

@LightBulbFun this popped up on my Faceache feed 

[barrett]

That Harding is astonishing! Shows there is still unknown stuff out there waiting to be found...