invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[egg]

yes, the resolution is terrible!

 

I think it says the villiers engine offers 'unparalleled reliability' 

 

[LightBulbFun]

heres a fun picture of a Model 57 rubbing shoulders with RM1414  (both made of aluminium too)

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/raver_mikey/15048984758/in/photolist-7ZPkWX-3qEv45-d21sSW-28ofSN3-ahB51Q-ahyiD4-xjZP2i-9PLrSo-eyx131-qmkbDW-fa8Der-7ethT6-9PHzyM-4CF6GN-9PLs2N-ib7giG-c5P5jY-df79bH-oZrwZz-df7a2v-8iCw3d-qeebGy-9PL9rv-2dwFyFt-eFJEzE-eFJEu7-NUabzY-24iZubi-saNDR8-df7azF-df7aV4-df7aBs-Cgfom-29Mvudm-8ATdhS-oVPYSs-8AQcpD-qmokzh-Z7GaaN-qz4Kjn-ajVWrx-fYz5hj-8qdUn3-8qaJoe-Mw6n8T-ohtqxr-udAcUS-dZF5gw-rGQwo4-df79S1/

[Datsuncog]

I've sent an email to the Ulster Transport Museum, to see if I can beg permission to poke around a bit on WOI654 - I'd like to take a proper image of both the VIN plate in the cabin and also the chassis number, to add to the records being built up here. I'm hopeful that permission will be granted, since it's a bona fide academic research project and I hold longstanding museum membership.

 

Ten working days and still nothing back through 'official channels' - will give the museum a rattle tomorrow and see if they can advise. After that, I'll start pulling a few strings behind the scenes and see if that gets me anywhere.

[Zelandeth]

thanks for the nice words, im happy to see others are also enjoying my sleuthing

 

 

 

 

 

when you say the original for sale post, as in the ebay listing it self or this post on the RUMCar forums? http://rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=5499.0

 

 

either way yeah pretty sparse LOL

 

 

(unless theres a prior post of the listing here on AS? I did a search of the ebay listing number here to see if the ebay listing had been posted anywhere here before, and only my posts here show up)

 

looking at the location, didn't realise they where so local to me, id been to brighton many times because my dad lives or lived there (honestly dont know anymore LOL)

 

I still have no real idea where any of them ended up aside from TWC and TPA sadly (all of them are showing last taxed since whenever they where withdrawn from ministry service)

 

(also rather frustrating too, because this was a recent well documented event yet)

 

the closest thing I have to the current whereabouts of any of them, are a few photos of OVW445P being carted on a trailer somewhere (Im not sure if it was leaving the field with ST185CS or leaving ST185CS to a new owner)

 

086CB697-5268-4BF4-85EE-E6E23AF1E8CC.jpeg

 

(at least pop her eye back in LOL)

 

E517A394-FB06-47BA-8161-E5D30DF714CA.jpeg

I am highly envious of the door fit in that photograph...

[JimH]

This is probably only just relevantish. If you have half an hour to spare you might want to watch this film from the CoI. Made in 1949 there are some little snippets of very early attempts to get the rather large number of disabled servicemen mobile again. A proper copy of it is available on the BFI collection Land of Promise.

 

https://youtu.be/yORlQnt27bM

 

It's certainly worth a watch if you haven't seen it before.

[LightBulbFun]

Here's a snippet I don't think I've mentioned, back in the 60s there was a separate tax class for Invalid Carriages,which was lower than for Tricycles aka Reliant and Bond,so long as it weighed iirc under 5cwt or so.There was a tax break of some sort whereby the DHSS paid the tax on them all as if was peanuts.while the model 70 was being developed it got so much heavier than the villiers models it was actually too heavy for the invalid carriage class and was classed under weight as a tricycle,but after all the pressure they were under to come up with something better and all the criticism around it,rather than admit it they swallowed their pride and stumped up the extra money for taxing them all,which must have cost a fortune back then

 

I appreciate the post/intention to share information however you have mentioned this before  http://autoshite.com/topic/32723-wanted-an-invacar-ac-model-70-and-general-ramble-thread-with-survivors-list-on-page-26-and-thread-index-on-page-1/?p=1716711

 

however I have researched this myself

 

and as I have mentioned around the place it dates back to well before the Model 70 existed,

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/29975-dollywobblers-invacar-2000-miles/?p=1787142

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/32723-wanted-an-invacar-ac-model-70-and-general-ramble-thread-with-survivors-list-on-page-26-and-thread-index-on-page-1/?p=1743729

 

 

the Model 70 is not the only "invalid carriage" to over step the 254Kg invalid carriage limit.

 

the last invalid carriage to confirm to the 254Kg Invalid carriage class was the Invacar Mk10

 

everything after that including several villiers machines weighed more than 254Kg, so where technically not invalid carriages

 

and if you where a complete nutter you could even drive them on the motorway

 

on the tax thing AFAIK, Disabled drivers paid no tax?

 

as evidenced by this 1971 Mk12 Tax disc

 

[LightBulbFun]

on the speedo front of things

 

I noticed while checking out the Photos of this AC Acedes electric (Model 64) again https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331686712203

 

 

that the speedo starts with 0 on the right and the top speed on the left, I THINK iv seen that before somewhere else but cant remember where for the life of me, otherwise not seen that before...

 

 

 

I wonder why its backwards like that?

 

 

on the Model 70 front, if you remember this video

 

 

heres a picture of it I think sadly I dont know any details on this one at all

 

[Christine]

I found a 300w  lightbulb   but it doesn't fit anything in my house.

 

ccc 001.jpg

 

ccc 002.jpg

Do you want this? pm me address if you do

[LightBulbFun]

projector lamps of this type are not something I actively collect, so unless your actively trying to shift it, im good thanks

 

however if there does come a time where you do need it gone ill gladly give it a new home

 

I appreciate the offer

[LightBulbFun]

oh and to keep things vaguely invacar related

 

and to try an answer Zels question from a while back if I have any bare naked Model 70 chassis pictures

 

while I still dont have anything there bar the drawings from the manual

 

I did come across this shot again

 

 

a Picture of MPD553P/VAV1L on its side minus an engine and gearbox

 

gives you a good look at how the Model 70 was constructed from underneath 

[LightBulbFun]

check this out I found an intiror shot of a Petrol AC Acedes (Model 57)

 

 

Looks like fun to drive! almost looks like you can push and pull the handle bars backwards and forwards... (talk about needing 3 hands to operate)

 

 

NPJ340D

 

 

[egg]

I also love the demister pipe pointed at the window!

[LightBulbFun]

is it wrong that the first "word" that came to mind when i saw that uhh steering contraption

 

was "dagadagaga" to the sound of a Merlin V12? 

[egg]

Lol, quite a different set up to the Invacar developed solution, but some familiarity in how the other controls are mounted on a 'box' on the right hand side.

[LightBulbFun]

Lol, quite a different set up to the Invacar developed solution, but some familiarity in how the other controls are mounted on a 'box' on the right hand side.

 

indeed! I wonder what control options where available for the Model 57/67...

 

heres the control scheme of an unknown age Electric AC Acedes (Model 64)

 

 

 

speaking of ACs got some excellent news on the Q plate invacar front

 

[LightBulbFun]

iv been accumlating some more random invacar tidbits that and I feel like iv got enough to glue together into a post

 

first off the batt is been wondering about this invacar

 

 

at first glace it looks like a normal Model 67

 

however theres a couple things that are a bit odd

 

first heres a normal Model 67 Mk14

 

 

notice 2 things, 1 the First Model 67, lacks the front mould lines that the normal Model 67, however I believe these where removed with the Model 67 Mk15, as seen with this picture bellow of a Model 67 I came across recently

 

 

but the main thing iv noticed is, every Model 67 iv come across has 1 door, where the first one in this post above, has 2 doors...

 

but they are of a different tone to the rest of the body work, so i wonder if they where retrofitted at a later date from a Model 70 or something?

 

or if the first Model 67 is something special? its in a museum in Australia for those who have not read about my first post about it in this thread

 

 

 

second thing for today is I noticed

 

with the 2 sites I have that tell my the vin plate from the registration plate, iv noticed they only work if the car im looking at, was at least taxed until 2001

 

if it was untaxed since before 2001 then 1 site says car not found and another one just wont return the VIN

 

however iv noticed 2 Invalid tricycles that despite being untaxed since the early 1980s, do return VINs

 

and that would be 

 

an AC Model 57

 

LPD806D

 

and an Invacar Mk12

 

PEV627D

 

I wonder why these do return VINs when everything else from that time does not.

 

It is worth mentioning that both exist today, so I wonder if at some point recently V5s where applied for, and although they did not tax them, this was enough for the chassis numbers to show up on the sites I use or something?

 

(however MPH759P still wont return a Chassis number on the sites I use, and I know a V5 is on the way for that one, will have to keep a close eye on things)

 

 

 

and finally one for Jon and plasticvandan since I know he likes Tippen Deltas

 

 

Don't think I've chipped in with a comment yet but I think these are great and I'm glad that so many have been saved. Hopefully, it should be a relatively painless overhaul and you'll be back buzzing about on the streets soon enough. 

 

Mrs_Jon & I started seeing each other in 2002 and I distinctly remember sighting one in York when we were together one day, so there was at least one shite stalwart locally holding onto one to the bitter end. I'd totally forgotten about them by that time but they were a core part of street scenery when I was growing up in the early-mid eighties but just like half pennies and those red and white stripey tents that workmen used to cover holes with, they disappeared overnight.

 

 

4 years ago, I brokered a deal with my cousin to buy a Fiat 500 locally, for £2500 (!!!). It was owned by this fella, who had previously owned a much more interesting machine:

 

 

 

 

Yes, at least one Harper Mk6 Invalid Carriage made it to New Zealand! 

 

 

 

 

 

I know what it's called, from the correct identification back in 2013 by one Scott Barrett. Anyway, I think the owner was attracted to the Invacar, as he'd suffered a stroke in 1983, so perhaps it was easy to pilot. That said, it didn't stop him buying the 500 in the 1990's and driving it all over NZ, despite him having effectively lost the use of the right side of his body. The test drive of the 500 was truly an eye opener, as he drove a 3 pedal car with his left foot only - approaching a T Junction downhill and having to give way was particularly terrifying. Suffice to say, much use of 4th gear was utilised during the trip.....

 

a Tippen Delta also made it to NZ at some point also painted bright red interestingly enough (did NZ have their own invalid carriage service, and painted them bright red?)

 

[Jon]

Interesting!

 

Not sure if you're aware of carjam.co.nz but you can look up look up an NZ car's registration number and usually, it has some relevant info to give.

 

Here's the Tippen's details:

 

https://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=pr471

 

 

And the Harper's:

 

https://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=11scw

 

 

Note that the Tippen is registered as a passenger car (and has a standard number plate, issued to cars, vans and trucks (AB1234, or ABC123 layout, according to time issued)), whereas the Harper is registered as a moped (I can't work out any rhyme or reason to how mopeds, bikes, trailers, tractors etc. are issued their number plates) and mentions it being re-registered. From that, I reckon the Tippen is most likely a UK import (as it states in the report but that isn't always wholly accurate) and the Harper I imagine was sold new here.

 

I've no idea about the history of invalid carriages in NZ but I did note that both of the above got their new plates and registration only 3 months apart and both are clad in a quite lurid coat of 2 pack red, so perhaps they were owned by the same person? It could well have been the guy I mentioned on here back in 2017 but I've no idea where he is now, so wouldn't be able to verify that!

[LightBulbFun]

very interesting stuff, will have to remember the CarJam site, shame it cant do UK reg plates

 

as you say id not be surprised if they where owned/imported by the same person, wonder why they where painted bright red!

 

its another invalid carriage mystery to solve

[LightBulbFun]

today has been a nice productive day

 

I got talking to Fraser directly, he is the chap who owns VES108S, and owned JPA268N and a few other Model 70s in the past

 

and he has kindly provided me with some detailed pictures of VES108S specficly of the plate inside the car, and of the chassis number suspension top mount

 

 

 

the first thing I noticed is, it has a different VIN plate then any other Model 70s VIN plate iv seen

 

its much shorter, and lacks the Lube chart, also although I have edited out the VIN number, i can confirm it does match up with my records and whats on the suspension top mount (fraser knew there was a chassis number somewhere there but he did not know where exactly until I showed him so, which he was happy to find out about )

 

the VIN plate also quite clearly says "government property" which further verify it was most likely not a privately sold Model 70, Fraser also told me it had sat since 1998, which interestingly lines up to when me and stuart think it lost its original registration, sadly iv still not been able to figure out VES108S's orignial reg plate, because all the 89xx invacars I have documented also have weird things going on with their reg plate! (well one does, and the other is a Northern Ireland car LOL)

 

sadly he does not know much else of its history, but he is visiting to the person he bought it off soon so will ask him more questions

 

its also interesting to note the Date of manufacture is January 1978, so they officially made Invacars into 1978

 

 

 

for reference here is TPAs Plate

 

 

and here is TWCs plate

 

 

Fraser says his plan with VES, is to get it back on the road then sell it on

 

probably for more money then i can afford sadly (given what he said he has put into it so far)

 

Fraser did say if he comes across any cheap Model 70s he will let me know however

 

(he also says theres a chap In London asking £2K for a Model 70, but im waiting for more details on that, £2K is more then I can afford, but id still like to know the details )

 

he said apart from JPA which came via help from stuart, he has found all his Model 70s via his gum tree wanted adverts

[LightBulbFun]

I dont think this was shared at the time but the Model 70, scale model is coming along nicely

 

https://www.facebook.com/SAMSModelCars/posts/2201809389913888

 

 

the detail is proper impressive

 

 

ill be very interested to see how the production ones come out (the above is a brass master)

 

 

 

BTW for those wondering, TTW991R and "1LEG" went to a private microcar collector in scotland, a guy called Scott Milne who supposedly has 10-12! Model 70s

 

id love to know the details of his collection, and also figure out what 1LEGs registration/ID is

 

 

also looks like things are happening with TPE376S  (the Model 70 scene is a bit of a mess it seems, theres people with Bodies looking for chassis, and people with chassis looking for bodies!)

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/2207989339244016

[dollywobbler]

He did indeed. Took lots of photos at the NEC last year, then had to patiently wait months for me to actually find a moment to get the tape measure out... (having forgotten his tape measure at the NEC).

[LightBulbFun]

very cool stuff (he will have to correct his little plaque tho, as production ran into 1978 as evidenced by VES108S   )

 

 

I think the invalid carriage register have a Tippen Delta in their collection, you could ask if they will take some measurements (as you may have seen theres a video on facebook of simon buzzing around in a Tippen Delta)

 

(from reading the comments it looks like a production model, Model 70 will be £75, certainly not cheap, but i defo plan to get one at some point )

[LightBulbFun]

Had a good morning today

 

Yoss happened to be in the area and dropped by for a quick chat about things which was nice

 

(always nice to have some face to face nattering when your cooped up indoors isolated from everything 247!)

 

and he also brought me a couple lightbulbs from his Routemaster which was very cool and nice of him

 

 

first one is a 12W 24V 38Mm bulb used in the blind box, this is a fairly common bulb used throughout the industry and this is a modern example

 

 

 

the second one is an original London Transport 22W 24V 50Mm diameter bulb, used for interior lighting, this was a bespoke lamp made custom for London Transport, and this example is an actual London Transport example which is very cool

 

 

I lit them up using my Variac, this time making sure the voltage was at 0V! then slowly ramping up to 24V checking the exact voltage with my fluke multimeter  (they are about the same colour temp, but the automatic white balance makes the 22W LT one look whiter)

 

so id like to say thanks to Yoss for dropping by, and for the lightbulbs for the collection

[Yoss]

Yes it was good to finally meet you and see the legendary SD1.

 

I'm slowly putting names to faces (or is that faces to names?) on here.

[LightBulbFun]

been speaking to Fraser some more about VES108S and asked for some more detailed shots which he kindly provided 

 

one of the most interesting bit for me is the head liner, its very interesting to see what the original head liner looks like, almost looks like its made of wool, but i suspect its just a fluffy fabric of some sort?

 

 

you can also see the rollover bar in this photo

 

 

and it looks like they altered the sun visor to match the head lining (IIRC TWCs visor is covered in a different material)

 

 

heres an inside shot showing the right hand tiller control, and an interesting little foot pedestal of some kind

 

 

also of note is this running in sticker like what GPG721K has, I think its an artefact left over from when VES108S was new, because I instructed Fraser to where the engine number is on the engine it self and it matches up with the VIN plate, so I dont think its a case of a replacement engine being fitted just before being withdrawn, I think just the sticker was just never removed, also worth noting is what I think is a date code on the glass, will have to see what year/date that comes back as

 

 

its also worth noting that VES108S does not have the big brake booster thing I spotted in another Late Model 70, so it seems that was a 1 off or something for some reason

 

 

[egg]

I wonder if the footstool was an option. Some MK12's have it too.

 

That headlining is great!

[Yoss]

Brake servo's don't actually make the brakes better, they just make them easier to use. You need less pressure on the pedal to achieve the same force but if you slam your foot down as hard as you can it won't make that much difference as the brakes themselves, hydraulic piston sizes and brake linings are physically the same size. The laws of physics say you can only put a certain amount of pressure on them before they lock up. Maybe it was for somebody with a weak leg, or arms depending on the set up.

 

My Triumph being a 1300TC has the servo, (exactly the same as the one in your picture) the standard 1300 doesn't have one but the brakes are fine. I say 'fine' as neither are up to modern standards.

 

Nice to see a running in sticker, you used to see cars with a running in sign in the back window quite regularly. You obviously don't any more.

[Amishtat]

Presumably that model is 1/76? The detail is amazing

[quicksilver]

Presumably that model is 1/76? The detail is amazing

According to their website all SAMS Model Cars are 1/43. If it was 1/76 I'd definitely buy a few but I can't really justify £75 for a model that doesn't fit the scale of my collection. I believe at least one scratch-built 1/76 Model 70 does exist though.

[LightBulbFun]

I wonder if the footstool was an option. Some MK12's have it too.

 

That headlining is great!

 

indeed its quite interesting, I think this is the first tiller control iv seen without foot controls (well one where iv seen the footwell as well)

 

so i wonder if its something all footless tiller ones had, or something specifically fitted for the user (theres another fun thing, figuring if a thing, was an option, or something fitted specifically at a users request )

 

its part of the fun, how no 2 invacars are the same!

 

 

Brake servo's don't actually make the brakes better, they just make them easier to use. You need less pressure on the pedal to achieve the same force but if you slam your foot down as hard as you can it won't make that much difference as the brakes themselves, hydraulic piston sizes and brake linings are physically the same size. The laws of physics say you can only put a certain amount of pressure on them before they lock up. Maybe it was for somebody with a weak leg, or arms depending on the set up.

 

My Triumph being a 1300TC has the servo, (exactly the same as the one in your picture) the standard 1300 doesn't have one but the brakes are fine. I say 'fine' as neither are up to modern standards.

 

Nice to see a running in sticker, you used to see cars with a running in sign in the back window quite regularly. You obviously don't any more.

 

yeah thats a good point, although I dont think they are particularly hard to brake

 

just leaning on the handle bares is enough to do so (much to the annoyance of DWs arms  )

 

https://www.themiamiautomuseum.com/1977-ac-invacar-c-313.htm

 

here is the page to where I found the brake booster picture, the controls look fairly normal to me, although there is an extra switch left of the speedo, wonder what thats for

 

 

(VES108S also has an extra switch, I did ask what it was for but the question flew unnoticed sadly)

 

 

According to their website all SAMS Model Cars are 1/43. If it was 1/76 I'd definitely buy a few but I can't really justify £75 for a model that doesn't fit the scale of my collection. I believe at least one scratch-built 1/76 Model 70 does exist though.

 

ohh cool do you have a picture of that 1/76th Model 70?