invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[mrbenn]

I think the official rules on the whole microcar thing is if its 600cc or under or something like that im not 100% sure on the details, im sure DW may be able to fill in the missing details

 

which if im reading wikipedia some smart cars where

 

NMCR website suggests:

 

"There’s no formal definition, but nowadays we usually take it that a microcar should have no more than 3 cylinders, be under 700cc, and be designed for economy motoring".

 

My car is 599cc of throbbing power so it sneaks in either way

 

There are two mindsets. One is that the definition of a microcar is so tightly defined that it excludes pretty much anything they made more than six of and it must be utterly, utterly terrible. Then there's an increasing mindset to actually making the scene survive, in which case larger cars are welcome. My 2CV is quite a bit bigger than a Smart...

 

Personally, I'm much more comfortable with the latter view but the former often prevails in situations like this.

[LightBulbFun]

the whole microcar thing also brings up an interesting issue for invacar lickers like myself

 

in that while the microcar scene looks to have helped save and bring the invalid carriage and invalid carriage people together 

 

it does mean iv seen invacars full into the scope of the general microcar crowd, and the problem from what iv seen microcar people tend to have much deeper pockets with most other microcars going for £££...

 

and I am a bit worried of invacars heading that way. (its one of the reasons im making such a push to acquire one as soon as I can)

[dollywobbler]

That was rather my point. The microcar crowd has typically been very sniffy about Invacars for quite some time, though the tide is definitely turning. It would be nice to get a few Invacars there if possible. 

[mrbenn]

It looks like a good run so I may pencil it on the calendar. Not entirely clear on whether you have to book a spot, can't see it on the website.

[LightBulbFun]

maybe more details will come to light when the date draws near?

 

seeing as theres a chance of TWC being there and it crosses over with my birthday (plus the chance to see other cool micro/cars and meet other shitters)

 

im defiantly going to see if I can make it , but i cant make any promises sadly

[LightBulbFun]

I have just dropped st185cs a PM now to wait a reply

 

(it will be interesting to know how his bunch are coming along even if he does not want to sell any)

[LightBulbFun]

while im at it with the questions, im also still wondering what the Red line is for the puch engine in a Model 70

 

(basically to figure out if the 82Mph top speed figure thrown around, is actually possible or not)

 

when I had read that the CVT held the engine at 3K RPM til 45Mph I did some maths where the RPM came out at as 5333RPM at 82Mph or such which sounded plausable to me

 

but since reading the manual and reading that the CVT gearbox actually holds the engine at 3500RPM till 45Mph not 3K RPM then the maths for 82Mph comes out at 6317RPM which sounds rather high for an engine from the mid-late 1950s? (doing some maths also shows me that 70Mph is when peak horse power happens, which Means the Model 70 is the perfect* highway cruiser right?   either that or I just figured out why its called Model 70...) 

 

(then again I wanna say a 2CV redlines at about 6K RPM and those have a much less sophisticated engine IIRC so who knows maybe 6300RPM is fully reasonable for the puch engine in a Model 70 )

 

(the way I figured everything out was, if I know the engine is turning at 3500RPM at 45Mph then I can divide 3500 by 45 and get the magic number, since i know the CVT at that point has run out of ratio, that number will still the same from 45Mph onwards, so 3500RPM/45MPH=77.7MagicNumber I can then take 82Mph multiply it by my magic number and bam get the RPM the engine would be turning at that speed hopefully that all makes sense)

 

 

 

also came across this picture, which I think is from the same location as the well known picture of invacars lined up on a street with KPL29P facing the camera

 

 

but I noticed in the picture above, a Model 70 with a Reg plate starting with ONO which made me laugh a little

 

then on top of that when I went to look up the reg on the DVLA, turned out it had a rather amusing typo

 

 

INVALAR, initially V8 Land rover came to mind    (VELAR, which is what I think some pre production early range rovers where badged as)

 

may have rambled on here a bit but its 4:50AM ill blame it on the insomnia and not the fact im slightly* too enthusiastic about these things 

 

but the TL;DR is: an invacars magic number is 77.7...

[LightBulbFun]

after the PM i sent last night

 

I decided just now to also fire off an email to the email address here http://www.bubblecars.com/sales.htm

 

I figured even if its from 10 years ago its worth a shot, maybe the person still by some miracle still has it at the back of his garage or maybe he knows of other model 70s

[egg]

Give that breakers a call LBF !

 

Hey, I know it's hard, I'm no fan of 'business' phone calls, but it gets easier the more you do it.

[LightBulbFun]

Give that breakers a call LBF !

 

Hey, I know it's hard, I'm no fan of 'business' phone calls, but it gets easier the more you do it.

 

dont worry I plan to do so when i get some actual credit on my phone   (as kinda predicted I dont think they ever got back to my web based enquires)

 

(iv got a dentist appointment on the 6th so ill take the opportunity to top it up then, and also post off those Atlas tropical daylight Fluorescent tubes to my friend in Texas, hopefully the postage wont do too much damage to the slush fund, its the my last "outstanding" expense so to speak)

 

as someone who is stuck indoors for months at a time 247 etc I rarely use my phone for out going things, so its handy to have it on a PAYGO SIM that I can just top up when and as needed

[dollywobbler]

The manual states that the top speed of an Invacar is 60mph at 4000rpm. Though I know they can do a bit more than that...

 

2CV maximum power is at 5750rpm, so you're not bad on your numbers.

[LightBulbFun]

yeah I was thinking that too, 4000-4500RPM aint even peak horse power, maybe the official tester chickened out at 60? 

 

im curious do we have 2 different versions/revisions of the same manual?

 

my manual (well PDF/Scan of one) says 4500RPM at 60Mph and 3500RPM for the CVT bit, where as your figured are about 500RPM less then mine 

 

(im not trying to be pedantic or anything, im genuinely trying to figure this stuff out because it does genuinely interest me, call me weird if you wish )

 

(oh and to correct a mistake I made earlier peak engine horse power is at 5K RPM not 5.5K RPM as I previously thought I had read, so max engine horse power would happen at 64.3MPH if my maths is correct which may explain how TWC does 65Mph so merrily* )

 

 

 

I got a response from the email I just sent, the person IDs himself as Big Al, I think its the same Big Al as on the RUMCar Forums

 

he said he does not know of any Model 70s available, but that he does have a Mk12E that needs restoration (he didn't specify if it was for sale or not, although I realised my response kind of assumes it is, hope he does not mind that, I was not asking for a price or anything but just said cool to know that there is one available but that im only looking for Model 70s atm )

 

he also attatched a couple cool photos

 

one of that small cluster of abondened Mk12Es and Model 67s that has been shared here a few times

 

but also what looks like to be the engine bay of a Model 67

 

which I found pretty cool to see, as theres not many Photos of Model 67s out there, so it was pretty interesting to study, espcially comparing to a Model 70

 

 

(the little 197cc engine looks quite lost in there, but the space is noticeably narrower than a Model 70 with its widened track and flared wheel arches)

[puddlethumper]

Ear, Lightbulb bloke. What can you tell me about Edison sodium

high intensity discharge lamps ? 400 watt jobbies, single screw end, (fnar).

I have been tasked with clearing the maintenance store and workshop

of an old factory and there are a shit load of bulbs. 

Also Sylvania 70w and another inbetweeny size.

I think they look well cool. There may be a free one for you if you want one.

[LightBulbFun]

Feel free to post pictures, I always enjoy pictures

 

im guessing in this case "Edison" is the brand of the 400W lamps?

 

im well aware of that brand, they just rebrand cheap (mostly Chinese made) crap that dont last 5 minutes, sadly as they are often cheapest, most cowboy maintenance type people go for them, and as such they are quite common and give a bad name to discharge lighting

 

 

as for the 70W Sylvania lamps, Sylvania made good discharge lamps, often in their Tienen factory in Belgium when it came to the European market sadly I think things are winding down there now and they too have started out sourcing. so I would definitely hang onto the Sylvania stuff

 

I have a good friend, a Lightbulb engineer if you will, who knows way more then I even know who works for Sylvania at that factory

 

he was the one who made this cool half coated demonstration fluorescent tube for me

 

 

but yeah any sort of discharge lamp is very cool to observe even if its cheap shite like those Edison brand bulbs

[LightBulbFun]

more invalid carriage ramblings this time of the Mk12C variarty for a change

 

I came across this Mk12C brochure of sorts which has been an interesting read

 

 

 

its pretty interesting to read, especially given how little information there is out there

 

I wonder if the 20Mph Speed limit stayed a thing right until the end in 2003 or if it was changed/abolished at some point? (id not heard about it until reading the brochure)

 

its also worth noting that weight for the mk12c is also above 250Kg...

[LightBulbFun]

(hm weird I was just going back through this thread to double check what plasticvandan said about the weight limits when I noticed the 2 pictures/screenshots from my post about my mums old Volvo 244 where not loading, so I went to edit the post and see whats what and those 2 pictures have vanished from the my media thingy?)

[egg]

I saw you liked that Fiat 126, LBF in the tat thread, might be worth an enquiry! I know it is not what you want, but if it is any good at all, you'd easily see your money back and more!

 

I appreciate that viewing it would be tricky for you.

[LightBulbFun]

yes I did notice that

 

I do like a good Fiat 126p indeed, (I also noticed its listed as Automatic? did they really make an automatic 126p? or did they just shove the rear end of a Model 70 under there? theoretically you could that AFAIK   since the rear end of a Model 70 is constructed using Fiat 500/126 drive axels/differential IIRC )

 

and I do have a good internet friend who is of polish heritage and loves a good 126 so can you imagine the look on his face if I bought one

 

however theres a lot of unknowns with that fiat 126p which may require a lot of effort and money sapping (im not sure if its UK registered?) although on the surface it looks pretty clean

 

as mentioned previously if im going to be putting in serious effort you know which car im going to put that effort in for

 

if I had more income etc then I definitely would have had a gander at it (but theres also sad issues like not being ULEZ compliant etc, and I dont think its exempt since i dont think it can be shoved into the historic tax class yet)

 

(then again if I had more income etc, I would have a look at getting a "sensible" or at least some payed driving lessons in the mean time)

 

 

although I will say £500 seems quite cheap for one of these?

[captain_70s]

Not wanting to take a mahoosive shite all over your dreams but I suggest a change of tack... This coming from somebody who has run shit old cars on a tight budget for 6 years and tried to buy a Reliant Rialto before he'd passed his test!

 

1 - Pass your test first. My lessons cost an alarming amount at £17 an hour and that was cheap even back then in 2010.

Cars are a money drain, buying one will ruin your finances and push any chance of actually driving further away as you can't afford the lessons/test.

 

2 - You need somewhere to keep the car. Even ignoring the massive threat of vandalism keeping a car on the street makes the smallest of tasks a nightmare. Weather and light play major effect and neighbours will not appreciate a half dismantled car sitting so you'll have horrible time constraints to get the thing decent looking which won't line up with your finances.

 

3 - Buying the car is the cheap bit. When I bought the Doloshite for £1400 it cost £1100 to insure and cost a good £1000 in repairs almost immediately with occasional weekend use.

 

Again, not to put dampers on your dreams but you'll need to prioritize and slow down a bit. It is very easy for a car to go from a dream to a nightmare. I'd be foolish to say my crap cars didn't contribute towards be being suicidal only a year or two ago and it could have ended quite differently had I not been able to simply shut them away until better times.

 

Tread carefully fella.

[lanciamatt]

I agree with captain 70s. I too don't want to hamper your dreams, but I've been there, done it. I didn't listen to anyone, but it will be easier once you passed your test. You can book those block week things and take test Friday. Working on the street or drive is crap in winter, and that's usually when cars need more attention. Just tread carefully

[dollywobbler]

I spent an absolute fortune on driving lessons - mostly because my instructor decided to put me in for test after my first lesson, but it was several months before I could be fitted in for a test. I just wanted to keep driving, so had 25 lessons in the end, when I probably needed ten. At today's average, that's £600 gone before the cost of the test is factored in. It's not an unreasonable idea to focus on that first.

 

When I was 16, I seriously thought I'd own a Land Rover Discovery as my first car at one point. Took until I was 33 to make that happen! Loving your detailed digging into Invacar history - you've found more than I did. But, don't get too latched on to them. 

[Jmac]

Hi LBF . Back in the 1980's I used to drive thru beddington , Croydon , there was a yard on the corner of Hilliers lane and Croydon road that was stacked full of invacars , long gone now . I have looked on google but cannot find anything about it . It was a landmark back then , just up the road from the paynes poppet factory . I was wondering if you have any information about the old yard . Thanks Justin .

[LightBulbFun]

Not wanting to take a mahoosive shite all over your dreams but I suggest a change of tack... This coming from somebody who has run shit old cars on a tight budget for 6 years and tried to buy a Reliant Rialto before he'd passed his test!

 

1 - Pass your test first. My lessons cost an alarming amount at £17 an hour and that was cheap even back then in 2010.

Cars are a money drain, buying one will ruin your finances and push any chance of actually driving further away as you can't afford the lessons/test.

 

2 - You need somewhere to keep the car. Even ignoring the massive threat of vandalism keeping a car on the street makes the smallest of tasks a nightmare. Weather and light play major effect and neighbours will not appreciate a half dismantled car sitting so you'll have horrible time constraints to get the thing decent looking which won't line up with your finances.

 

3 - Buying the car is the cheap bit. When I bought the Doloshite for £1400 it cost £1100 to insure and cost a good £1000 in repairs almost immediately with occasional weekend use.

 

Again, not to put dampers on your dreams but you'll need to prioritize and slow down a bit. It is very easy for a car to go from a dream to a nightmare. I'd be foolish to say my crap cars didn't contribute towards be being suicidal only a year or two ago and it could have ended quite differently had I not been able to simply shut them away until better times.

 

Tread carefully fella.

 

 

 

Thank you for advice, iv been curious what your take was on the whole situation, given your similar situation

 

 

im hoping to wrangle a rent discount from the council on account of the fact im on ESA, which im hoping will free up more of my monthly allowance

 

which should hopefully help me hit my £1K target quicker, but also be able to spend some of my funds without it taking weeks to recover them

 

I also hope to before I start with lessons, get some driving experience with Zel, he offered to help get me started which is very nice of him, we are just trying to work out when I can next come down

 

you make a valid point when it comes to on road parking, sadly I dont really know anywhere else I could park it (as mentioned previously, if things happened that I ended up with an example that did need a lot of recommissioning work, I would probably see if I could work something out with Zel and then bankrupt myself and break my back on train tickets to MK  )

 

the main problem I guess is as always, comes down to money, its so scarce for me, that im very reluctant to spend it on anything at the moment, and i know I need to make moves as soon as possible or I may miss the boat so to speak

 

if my money situation was different/better then yeah I probably would of taken a more reasonable/sensible approach to things

 

(basically what I fear is, spending a bunch of money on some lessons and/or a modern car, and then suddenly having a Model 70 pop up for say £950 and with me only having £200 left and as such not being able to jump on it)

 

so im a sort of Dammed if I do dammed if I dont situation

 

 

I spent an absolute fortune on driving lessons - mostly because my instructor decided to put me in for test after my first lesson, but it was several months before I could be fitted in for a test. I just wanted to keep driving, so had 25 lessons in the end, when I probably needed ten. At today's average, that's £600 gone before the cost of the test is factored in. It's not an unreasonable idea to focus on that first.

 

When I was 16, I seriously thought I'd own a Land Rover Discovery as my first car at one point. Took until I was 33 to make that happen! Loving your detailed digging into Invacar history - you've found more than I did. But, don't get too latched on to them. 

 

Oh wow test after your first lesson? did you have some previous experience driving before then?

 

(as mentioned above im hoping to get some driving experience with Zel which im hoping will help accelerate (pun intended) the lessons and help with the test

 

im glad your enjoying my digging into it all

 

Me Get latched onto them? whaat never!

 

*quickly hides TWC mug* (I will say tho that was a gift )

 

 

 

(I was thinking that about what SIC said, and if it was to turn out the way his whole MGB situation did then at least I could literally say been there done that got the T-shirt or mug in this case )

 

I hope i can find one before im 33! but I do know it may take a while for one to turn up hence one of the reasons why I have started the search now (try and get the ball rolling as soon as I can)

 

Hi LBF . Back in the 1980's I used to drive thru beddington , Croydon , there was a yard on the corner of Hilliers lane and Croydon road that was stacked full of invacars , long gone now . I have looked on google but cannot find anything about it . It was a landmark back then , just up the road from the paynes poppet factory . I was wondering if you have any information about the old yard . Thanks Justin .

 

I sadly dont have any information on that yard, sounds like a cool place

 

but just wondering there was not also an RT Bus hiding among all the invalid carriages was there?

 

I know of a cool photo containing a pile of (IIRC) Model 57 AC invalid carriages a couple lorries and an RT Bus ill have to see if I can dig up that photo and post it here, (the bus survives to this very day too)

[Jmac]

I can't remember any buses , but It was a land mark , it might jog my memory . It was a long thin yard right on the junction stacked high with invacars .

[somewhatfoolish]

how did motorcycle brakes work back then? where they all purely mechanical/cable operated and you just had to squeeze really hard on the lever?

 

im also just wondering about it all

 

since one of the things I am a little worried about is not being able to rest my arms on the handle bars if they tire while driving , but if it is a problem, im sure there are ways to work around it, like fitting a stiffer return spring or retrofitting a motorcycle style brake lever or even just a regular foot pedal LOL

Hydraulic brakes on bikes were pretty unusual in 1970; most still came with cable-actuated drums, only exotica and race bikes had discs then, although they became much more common over the decade to 1980.

[egg]

I found out that the Polski 126 is parked in a Beer garden in Ealing and has all the Polish papers - but nothing on condition or the other questions I asked, so I'm personally going to leave that one LBF!

[LightBulbFun]

heres a fun one 

 

 

pretty normal Looking Model 70 right? owned by the national motor museum https://nationalmotormuseum.org.uk/vehicle-collection/ac-model-70/ (it would be hilarious/cool to sponsor it, if I win the lottery or something )

 

until you look on the inside 

 

 

its a tiller control one! but interestingly with pedals, 3 of them infact! which im rather confused about... (its like counting testicles, "1 2 3... wait what?!"   )

 

(my best guess is maybe one is some sort of foot operated gear change? or maybe some sort of "hand" brake? looks like theres a patch over the hole in the dash where the hand brake normally goes)

 

inside shot was found here, going by who uploaded it etc im guessing they are the same car

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1976-ac-model-70-invalid-carriage-interior-artist-unknown-135296806.html

[LightBulbFun]

Here's a line of them in captivity I spotted last year.

 

 

 

nearly 10 years ago now, but I wonder if there still there?

[LightBulbFun]

I sent the user who posted that picture a PM asking for details hopefully I hear back

 

(even if there not there anymore it would be cool if i can spot them using my google time machine thingy)

 

 

 

 

also did some proper sleuthing and "discovered" (read: was right under my nose) some history of WOO848S

 

 

id been aware of this piece for some time https://petrolblog.com/2010/05/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar/ (its where I found the photos of WOO848S)

 

and I noticed the (now dead) URL in the first post of this thread here on autoshite http://autoshite.com/topic/5867-ac-invacar/ looked awfully similar so i shoved it into the web archive where indeed looks to be the same blog http://web.archive.org/web/20120702210023/http://petrolblog.com/2010/05/20/whatever-happened-to-the-ac-invacar/ .

 

while I had read that blog entry a couple times in the past during my various hunts on the web for all things Model 70, I had only just now twigged that WOO848S was the one for sale at the time  (I have been wondering what the deal was with WOO848S as can be seen in my previous posts)

 

I wonder who it sold to in the end etc (heres the advert from the time http://web.archive.org/web/20100629065441/http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C154817/# )

 

(once again if only it was still for sale at £500   )

[dollywobbler]

That is an intriguing one with the tiller. May have to investigate!