Mot Changes 20th May, Can anybody clarify?

[Eddie Honda]

The garage cannot stop you from driving away at the moment and the new rules after 20th May do not change anything.

 

But they might grass.

[PiperCub]

They've already started issuing the new 'certificates' on about the 20th of April. I got one for the GTi around then - as the chap said to me "At least they look less like something a seven year old has knocked up on his PC".

 

My take on the new regs was you can drive it to a place for repair - so that can be your home, and to & from the test station but I may have misunderstood from whats said above.

 

I'm MoT'ing the MX5 on Friday, I'll ask then to try to get their views.

[Guest Hooli]

Other items on the list:

Reversing Lights - Sep 2009

Daytime running lights - March 2018

Prop shafts - March 2018

Bumper security and condition

Rear drive shafts on all vehicles

Cab security

Cab steps

Engine management warning light

emission control equipment - dpf...

fluid leaks posing an environmental risk (needs clarifying) - air con, oil leaks, power steering leaks, brake fluids or coolant.

Tyres correctly inflated

undertrays

emission - diesels - dpf result in being cope off (sic) any smoke from rear, removed

front fog lamps/lights to be working March 2018

 

Undertrays?

 

Do you know any detail on that? I ask as mine is safely fitted* in the corner of the garage.

[hennabm]

 

 

My take on the new regs was you can drive it to a place for repair - so that can be your home, and to & from the test station but I may have misunderstood from whats said above.

 

 

 Yep you read it correctly. You are allowed to drive it away from a test - be that to your home or a place of repair.

Even with dangerous defects on - as you can now.

The onus is on you - not the garage - to ensure road safety when choosing what to do with the vehicle after a failure is issued.

[hennabm]

Undertrays?

 

Do you know any detail on that? I ask as mine is safely fitted* in the corner of the garage.

 

Quote from new manual on under trays etc (under section 6.2.1)

 

https://training.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-6-Body-Structure-and-Attachments.html#section_6.1

[Guest Hooli]

Quote from new manual on under trays etc (under section 6.2.1)

 

https://training.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-6-Body-Structure-and-Attachments.html#section_6.1

 

Reads as 'not there, not a problem' to me. Thanks.

[fatharris]

The EML light is a concern to me - Herman's has never worked when the ignition comes on, even when I got a fault, despite the light working during dashboard diagnostics.

 

What the fuck am I going to do?

 

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[angle]

I'm willing to be corrected here, but as far as I know there are no 'new regs', in that the actual legislation that makes driving with MOT a legal requirement isn't changing - there's a new test, with additional things being tested, and a new way of recording failures that might make them easier to pick up via ANPR, but no changes to the law. So, as per now, you can drive a vehicle which has failed a test for as long as the old test is valid, with no restrictions on whether you're driving it to be repaired or not (and only your insurer can tell you whether you're insured or not). However, driving an unroadworthy vehicle (i.e. one with 'dangerous' on an MOT fail) is still a separate offence which will get you in the shit. In all of the scaremongering news stories, I've not seen anything to contradict that...

[Uncle Jimmy]

'Undertray' = bit of old dexion shelving used upside down to collect seeping oil from BMC/Leyland chod before pouring back into engine with mother/missus plastic funnel stolen from kitchen.

[hennabm]

"Turn on the ignition and check that the engine malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates and then goes off. On some vehicles it will be necessary to start the engine before the MIL goes off."

 

 

8. Engine MIL inoperative or indicating a malfunction

Major

 

​If the MIL lights when you turn the key and then goes off when you start the engine, isn't that doing what it should?

[busmansholiday]

Undertray, I remember taking the company Vectra in to the garage saying I think there's a problem with the undertray. They had a look and agreed, it had fallen off.

If it's not there it cannot fail.

[meggersdog]

yeah it's the unroadworthy vehicle that might void insurance.the new certificate clearly states repair immediately in bold lettering for major faults like "headlamp aim too high"

In the past when I've failed a car the presenter has said it's still got three weeks left on the old one so I'll be ok with that for now, won't I?

My reply has always been " you are now knowingly driving an unroadworthy vehicle" don't have to say that anymore as it's in bold letters.

[fatharris]

"Turn on the ignition and check that the engine malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates and then goes off. On some vehicles it will be necessary to start the engine before the MIL goes off."

 

• Engine MIL inoperative or indicating a malfunction

Major

 

​If the MIL lights when you turn the key and then goes off when you start the engine, isn't that doing what it should?

That's what I'm saying - mine doesn't come on at all. Only when you unlock the inbuilt dashboard diagnostics through a complicated series of button presses.

 

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[meggersdog]

wire it up to the battery charge light then

[hennabm]

That's what I'm saying - mine doesn't come on at all. Only when you unlock the inbuilt dashboard diagnostics through a complicated series of button presses.

 

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Ahhh - I see now.

What make of horseless carriage do you possess sir?

 

Possible solution in post above.

[SiC]

If it does it out the factory, I'd contact the DVSA for clarification. They get all sorts of these oddities all the time.

[fatharris]

I don't know if it's a factory thing, all I know is the crank sensor was playing up, generated a code, stranded TwoSmoke on a test drive but didn't throw up an EML.

 

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[blackboilersuit]

I've just checked all my policies and the ONLY thing that automatically invalidates cover on all of them is not having the correct licence. There are lots of clauses about the insurer being allowed to take over a claim if it is in THEIR best interests. From this I'm thinking that they'll always settle third party claims but then turn on you to recover their costs if they feel it's justified. Drink driving convictions spring to mind for this but I'm sure that it could apply to dangerous driving cases too.

[AMC Rebel]

But they might grass.

If the fault was serious enough they’d have a point - otherwise it would be a bit of a daft business model Shirley

[Youngteam]

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-the-new-mot-defect-categories-will-work/ covers some of this, basically suggests nothing has changed with regard to roadworthiness.

 

You can't drive an unroadworthy car on the road but the garage can't stop you if you chose to do so.

[sierraman]

Can't see how a lot of this stuff will be a problem assuming you apply some common sense prior to the test.

 

This with that you can't take your car away if it fails on dangerous items is rubbish. I'd be quite interested to see how they'd enforce that.

[AMC Rebel]

Fairly sure there was already something similar in place - couldn't the tester express a view the car was too dangerous to use?

[Zelandeth]

Okay, I've just had a quick rummage through some of this and have realised that it seems that I have yet another problem - after faffing around already designing circuitry to reproduce the functionality of the original check engine light (the transistor which should switch it in the ECU is dead, and I've been trying to find another ECU for about the last six months without success).  That was a faff, but achievable.

 

Text below grabbed from: Over here...

8.2 Exhaust emissions 8.2.1 Spark ignition engine emissions 8.2.1.1 Exhaust emission control equipment

This inspection is only for vehicles that must have a full catalyst emissions test (disregarding the basic emissions test). You only need to check components that are visible and identifiable, such as catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, and exhaust gas recirculation valves.

Defect Category

1. Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer: missing, obviously modified or obviously defective.

Major

 

Now, my Lada originally had a vacuum actuated EGR valve.  I'm pretty certain that this hasn't worked since the mid 1990s for a start.  Fine...just replace the valve surely...this is where it gets more complicated.

 

This car has however been modified, and now runs the single point injection system from another model (which is was never supplied with in the UK for some reason best known to the manufacturer).  This results in vastly better emissions figures than the original system was capable of.

 

None of the injection cars ever used EGR as far as I'm aware as it simply wasn't necessary due to the better fuelling control.  As such there's nowhere on the inlet manifold for it to attach to.

 

Now, my EGR valve is still there as I didn't want to faff about blanking off the hole it would have left on the exhaust manifold, but obviously isn't attached to anything else now. 

 

I realise that by the letter of the regs that this is now a "major" fail as the EGR valve has been for all intents and purposes "modified."

 

...however in the spirit of the rules it surely shouldn't be a problem as the car has been fitted with a far more advanced emission control system than when it left the factory, rather than this being done to mask a fault or to improve performance at the expense of pollutant levels.

 

This has been a pretty expensive project (reckon it's probably cost me £750 or so all in), but has resulted in a car that drives massively better than when it left the factory and produces far, far lower emissions (it's literally scraped through every emissions test since its first MOT, whereas when I last had it checked it came out at a very comfortable pass - CO: 0.001%, HC: 3ppm Lambda: 1.008).

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out...

[lisbon_road]

Strictly speaking, your vastly improved emissions are all about hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, not about the NOX that the EGR valve targets.  

 

I've never seen a vacuum operated EGR valve.  Can't you stick a pipe on it and put the end, er, somewhere inconspicuous?

 

Sounds a good project.  I've changed my Astra from SPi to MPi which totally transformed the driving and improved the fuel consumption.  Some systems just need to be improved on.  

[scdan4]

If you don’t point it out to them, they’ll never notice imo.

 

They’ll have no idea about what should, and would be on a 25 year old lada and it will pass emissions so he won’t be looking too hard.

[Zelandeth]

Strictly speaking, your vastly improved emissions are all about hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, not about the NOX that the EGR valve targets.  

 

I've never seen a vacuum operated EGR valve.  Can't you stick a pipe on it and put the end, er, somewhere inconspicuous?

 

Sounds a good project.  I've changed my Astra from SPi to MPi which totally transformed the driving and improved the fuel consumption.  Some systems just need to be improved on.  

 

Here's a vacuum operated one...Buried roughly centre frame.

 

 

True enough the NOx issue I guess...Though if they'd been that worried about it they would have carried over some form of EGR to the injected models I have to assume.

 

The difference in drivability of the car in general with the old carb setup and with the injection on really is night and day.  The biggest issue with the old carb system (which used a couple of solenoids to handle fuel metering) was just that the system took an appreciable amount of time to respond to changes in driving conditions...In particular when trying to deal with low speed manoeuvres when it did everything possible to exacerbate the limitations of the driveline which has been criticised for being somewhat prone to being jerky since the first models were imported.

[sierraman]

The late Cat equipped Lada Rivas were notoriously difficult to pass emissions on. I think in the end that was what finished them in the UK, iirc they had planned on using an injection system from GM but it wasn't financially viable.

[5speedracer]

isn;t the engine that Daf used at that time derived from the Leyland 0.600/ 0.680 ? or is that just an urban myth

Not sure of the Leyland model but yes the long serving and self oil changing DAF 11.6L was Leyland derived I believe..

Good engines, bit rattly but went the distance.

 

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[lisbon_road]

Not all cars have EGR valves, even after most did.  My wife's 2005 Zafira doesn't have one where my '96 Astra does.  Guess some engines needed them and some didn't for reasons I don't understand, though I'd be interested to know more.

[DodgeRover]

If you don’t point it out to them, they’ll never notice imo.

 

They’ll have no idea about what should, and would be on a 25 year old lada and it will pass emissions so he won’t be looking too hard.

This 100% - does anybody actually expect it to have an EML light either? Put a pipe to nowhere on it.