320Touring's Citroen GSA. Boom, back in the room (unit) 11/07/2021

[Tadhg Tiogar]

 

....Stop making me want one even more than I already do.

  Agreed, all this Citroen bothering is making me want one as well.

Meanwhile, in today's paper.....

 

[Eddie Honda]

The SEV Marchal cassette points are a nightmare. To adjust them the dizzy needs to come out, but I showed Neil that you can drill a hole in the dizzy body and insert an Allen key and adjust in situ.

Yes, they are a nightmare. Don't bother drilling a hole though.

 

Because, a) the cap clip gets in the way and b ) then the inner wing gets in the way. If the first two things don't deter you then I got all of 1700 miles out of a set before the fuckers jammed-up.

 

Take it off and throw it down the deepest mine and get a Ducellier. A billion times less annoying!

 

See my GS dizzy notes (and others) on Flickr.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/19864651@N00/sets/72157624328682798/

 

ETA: then they are rotor arms with 3 or 4mm lugs. Arrrrghhh!

[mrcitroen]

I shortened an Allen key so that the inner wing did not get in the way. To adjust, I flicked the clip, inserted the key, re attached clip then measured the dwell.

 

The above is all a bit academic now as I run electronic these days. What a difference!

[320touring]

after over 350km of running since we did this work, I have some queries..

 

Firstly, in the warmish weather we've been having, she'll start from cold and hold an idle with much less choke - this is good:)

 

Secondly, she feels a bit 'reluctant' up hills compared to previous - it feels a little like my Toledo - almost like it's running rich?

 

Lastly it 'runs on' a wee bit when switched off - again something it didnt do before.

 

Any suggestions on how to solve 2 & 3 please?

 

For clarity, we did the following:

 

Set the dwell to 59 degrees (spec is 55-59). Originally it was at 70degrees.

 

Timing was set to 10degrees before tdc.

 

The dizzy had some scratched marks on it - the original position relative to each other can be seen below:

 

Once the car was timed to 10degrees Btdc, the marks were aligned, rather than offset.

 

The only fuel side adjustment was the change to the ldle screw (approx 1 turn in to raise idle to circa 850rpm)

 

 

The car is perfectly useable, and a helluva lot quieter than it was. The sparkplugs are new and properly gapped.

 

My initial thoughts are:

 

Try the dizzy back in the 'before' position

 

Beyond that, not quite sure what can be done simply (i.e. not carb rebuild!)

 

Cheers

[forddeliveryboy]

Is it possible the previous owner tweaked ignition and carb settings for the best results?

 

Wind the mixture screw in until the revs just begin to fall then tweak around that point for best economy/performance (apols if this like teaching fish to swim). Your ear should tell you, both at idle and while pulling.

 

If the balance pipe wasn't heating the under-carb area much previously then it's possible more heat is altering the running. Exhaust back pressure without all the leaks will be a little different, too. I always blanked them off if they caused bother, no ill effects.

[320touring]

Is it possible the previous owner tweaked ignition and carb settings for the best results?

 

Wind the mixture screw in until the revs just begin to fall then tweak around that point for best economy/performance (apols if this like teaching fish to swim). Your ear should tell you, both at idle and while pulling.

 

If the balance pipe wasn't heating the under-carb area much previously then it's possible the heat is altering the running. Exhaust back pressure without all the leaks will be a little different, too. I always blanked them off if they caused bother, no ill effects.

It's possible indeed:)

 

Appreciate the info re mixture setting - I will read up and have a look - not needed from do much carb fettling, so all good advice.

 

Fair comment re the hotspot pipe as you say - it may be that a few things are slightly out of kilter.

 

I'll start with the timing and ignition leads, then look at fuel thereafter (assuming that adjusting timing and leads don't sort the running!)

[mrcitroen]

Running on could be an issue with the stop solenoid in the carb. While the engine is running at idle, pull the lead from the solenoid. The car should stop dead, if it continues to run as normal the solenoid is not working. Purpose of the stop solenoid is to block carb idle pathway when ignition is cut to prevent run on at shutdown. AKA Dieseling.

 

I know I keep going on about it like a broken record, but I was not that keen on the HT leads on your car. They were a very poor fit onto the plugs. Possible there could be a small gap between the lead terminal and plug.

 

I did think the car was running quite rich. The exhaust had that smell.

 

Don't get too hung up,on those marks on the dizzy. I know you are trying to get your head round what is going on. They would have been scribed on dizzy by some previous owner or mechanic. We have no evidence that they would have ever had any accuracy. Only accurate way to set timing is how we done it on Saturday. As it is, it's set to the book 10 dead BTDC, but the car may benefit from a little advance. I know on my G that if a go much above 12 or 13 deg BTDC it can start to pink.

 

Sometimes tuning cars is not all about book figures, but how it drives on the road and a small tweak may be needed.

 

It's all good fun and you can learn loads from just trying things. Getting an old car with un known history, to run like a Swiss watch can take ages! The rough running on mine was the carb. It was just so clogged up I'm surprised it ran. Best move ever though was fitting the electronic ignition.

[forddeliveryboy]

Aye, until you know the plugs, leads, points and coil are right there's not much point in fiddling about.

 

Adjusting the mixture to somewhere near however, if it's miles out, takes seconds and should be done toute de suite.

 

+1 to fitting electronic ignition, it used to involve a fiver and scavenging a GSa dizzy - what do people use nowadays?

[320touring]

Aye, until you know the plugs, leads, points and coil are right there's not much point in fiddling about.

 

Adjusting the mixture to somewhere near however, if it's miles out, takes seconds and should be done toute de suite.

 

+1 to fitting electronic ignition, it used to involve a fiver and scavenging a GSa dizzy - what do people use nowadays?

I can swap leads tomorrow,

 

ok so how do I adjust the mixture on the Weber carb?

[Eddie Honda]

You can't. You can play with the air bleed and idle. The rest is fixed jet.

 

There's an online BoL PDF but I can't find it just now.

[Eddie Honda]

Found the BoL:

 

Citroen GS-GSA 1971-1985 Owners Workshop Manual Haynes.pdf

 

And the Citroen one (too large to attach)

 

http://citroen.cappyfabrics.com/Citroen/8111.pdf

 

(Rest is here: http://citroen.cappyfabrics.com/GSA.html)

[320touring]

Right, I set out to sort this out this afternoon.

 

First up, the HT leads:

 

I cleaned up the spare set so I could identify them easily.

 

Then it was a case of 'one HT lead at a time, sweet jesus' untill all 5 were on and clunked home.

 

 

They certainly seemed to feel like they were making better contact.

 

I took it out for a test drive after it's had some time to warm up.

 

It was better but still hesitant and not pulling as well as I remembered.

 

Back to base and it was time to try the distributor.

 

Firstly, check where it was.

 

Then image "whit the hell" moment, it was time to set it back to whence it came.

 

 

Back out for another test drive, and it seems to better.

 

I'm letting it cool whilst I have dinner and will see how she is then.

 

Then tomorrow it needs to do circa 50 miles..

[forddeliveryboy]

I can swap leads tomorrow,

ok so how do I adjust the mixture on the Weber carb?

As EH says, it's adjusted with the air bleed. But I remember some trouble with iffy running on a Weber-fed GS once and I traced it to an electrovalve which was knackered - I seem to remember that as well as cutting off the fuel supply they feed the idle mix, which in turn affects how the engine pulls through the revs.

 

A slightly larger primary jet can improve running with modern petrol with its bio content - the carbs (they're all slightly different) which deliver a marginal fuel mix respond well to this.

 

Regarding timing, if it's been set correctly it should be right. It's possible it was previously over-advanced slightly, creating a lively feel but which would cause detonation flat out up the M74 on a hot day.

 

I'd check the internal resistance of all the HT leads, they should give the same reading through all of them - it's worth asking MrCitroen what his GS' (newish) leads read. Although the NGK plugs are new, I'd definitely do the same with them to eliminate all possibilities.

[artdjones]

Plus although the adjustment is only for the idle circuit,in practice that circuit is used quite a lot during lower speed normal driving.

[320touring]

What did you do at the weekend Neil?

 

On Saturday I washed and cleaned the GSA as I'd been invited along to the Stirling and District car show by the Scottish Citroen Car Club lot:)

 

 

I fear that the material in this car has been comprehensively killed by UV - This is what came off the parcel shelf when I turned it upside down.

 

 

She was parked up gleaming, but I awoke to a most unpleasant sight.

 

 

Some cleaning sorted that out and it was time to head to the meeting point.

 

 

Some gratuitous Traction Avant shots..

 

 

From there we took a sneaky backroad to the showground, and got ourselves on stand.

 

 

Once the show was open to the public, the old gal seemed to attract a fair bit of attention - and I was happy for folks to sit in it and try to comprehend the controls:)

 

A few also wanted to see it rising - again, only too happy to oblige!

 

The visa/GS/GSA/2cv all seemed to draw people who's parents/grandparents had one - was nice to see them remembering trips out:)

 

Had a couple of chaps saying they wouldn't know where to start with running an older car as a daily. I spent some time talking them through the joys* and as one remarked "the only way to learn it is by doing it"

 

I spent a fair time wandering round the show too - helluva lot of good cars kicking about - I'll likely write a blog on it later:)

 

Thanks to the car club chaps for the invite!

[Split_Pin]

Always a good show this one, pity I couldn't go.

[davehedgehog31]

Looks like a grand day out - I had it earmarked but I was already otherwise engaged, went to watch the TCR UK event at Knockhill. Shame they were the same day. 

[cort16]

I had plan to drag the family to this but cort jr wasn’t feeling very well so it was aborted . Looks like a good show .

[Tadhg Tiogar]

.... "the only way to learn it is by doing it"...

Trouble is that people increasingly lack the patience / attention span to do so.

[320touring]

Trouble is that people increasingly lack the patience / attention span to do so.

I have neither but still try;)

[Mrs6C]

The visa/GS/GSA/2cv all seemed to draw people who's parents/grandparents had one - was nice to see them remembering trips out:)

We need that Visa down here in Buckinghamshire on September 8th!

[320touring]

We need that Visa down here in Buckinghamshire on September 8th!

I'll pass on the observation if I remember!

[Zelandeth]

What's on the 8th September?

 

I really need to sit down and get all the Citroen shows in my diary so the Activa can get to them... she's been a regular fixture at many for many years and it will confuse people if she's not there!

[320touring]

What's on the 8th September?

 

I really need to sit down and get all the Citroen shows in my diary so the Activa can get to them... she's been a regular fixture at many for many years and it will confuse people if she's not there!

I'm imagining its sommat to do with 40yeara of the visa?

[320touring]

Went out for a tasty Mexican dinner in this tonight.

 

Parked in the 'hipster' spots, by the door, naturally!

 

 

Enjoyed good food and company before driving home in glorious sunset technicolour..

 

 

 

#noabadweemotah

 

So I bought it a carb to rebuild.

[320touring]

Although the carb may be incorrect..

 

But hey, funtimez to practice.

[davehedgehog31]

Was that Bibi's in Partick?

 

If so, gid.

[Split_Pin]

Glad you are getting on with this

[320touring]

Was that Bibi's in Partick?

 

If so, gid.

T'wis indeed!

[Mrs6C]

I'm imagining its sommat to do with 40yeara of the visa?

Yes!

 

The Citroen Car Club's 'Chevrons Rally' at Little Horwood in north Bucks is going to host a special get-together of as many Visas as possible, to celebrate their 40th anniversary. Six-cylinder rather bravely volunteered to take the lead on organising this part of the event, so I know he'd welcome the support. More details here:

http://autoshite.com/topic/30166-citroen-visa-40th-anniversary-89-sep-2018/