Datsuncog's Heaps: Sept 2023 - Another Year's T-Met Exemption Certificate...

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Heh, I thought that was just an interested equine gourmet in that pic you posted to the Crisp thread! Fantastic!

 

Have you tried him on these yet?

 

Tayto Finn McCool.jpg

 

Finn does eat crisps; when we stop at the pub, he has a bag of salt 'n vinegar entirely to himself - he can't get enough of them. I'm not entirely sure the equine digestive system can handle processed potato starch in the long-term, but he hasn't shown any ill-effects at all.

 

Sainsbury's sell Tayto cheese 'n onion, but not the eponymous "giant snack", so I'll give him a try on those.

[SiC]

Only thing that is bothering me about oil leaking from a blown off pipe, is that on these n/a petrol lumps, I can't think why ever the oil paths would ever leave the block. Its not like they need to feed a turbo or even an oil cooler. I'd expect everything to be pretty much kept internal to the engine. Unless its pee'ing it out of the oil filter/oil filter housing from an oil filter base that is leaking.

 

I think you're just going to have to get under it and have a look to see if its anything obvious like the sump.

[Datsuncog]

^^^ Yup. Heading home shortly - and as it's stopped raining for pretty much the first time since Sunday, I might get a look under it and see what's what.

Will keep you all posted - and thanks again for the advice/support/encouragement!

[Parky]

I'm sitting here munching popcorn and pressing F5 a lot.

 

Fingers crossed it is something really tiny and fixable for pennies. If that fails, find a point on the mainland that is equidistant from everyone, move there, and send out the bat signal. We'll be round with tools and numerous profanities to stand around your cars, drink your tea and use your facilities before going home having achieved nothing.

 

You can't say fairer than that!

[Pillock]

I do love reading your posts, Mr Cog. It's a shame that it's a potentially expensive way to generate content, but they read better than some books I've invested actual money in.

[mrbenn]

I haven’t added my thoughts as all I could think to do is top up the oil, start it up and have a look/listen.

 

Very sorry to hear of the issues. I’m always keen to read your posts but hopefully there’ll be better news soon!

[Guest Hooli]

I'd have a look before adding oil, with a leak like that it should be easy to see where it's coming from.

[Squire_Dawson]

Personally I wouldn't even bother doing anything with it. A major oil loss at speed like that will have wrecked the engine. The two options are replace the engine or bridge it.

[Guest Hooli]

Depends how long it run with no oil etc.

 

I had it happen once on my bike when an oil cooler pipe burst. Got it home, new pipe & new oil sorted it.

[Parky]

I recall the story of Alfa Romeo's foray into Formula one in the 1980's.

 

After one particular race where a driver retired, the official explanation was "oil leak". When asked about this, the chief mechanic took the journalist over to the broken car in the pits and said (adopts comedy Italian phonetic, ahem...)

 

"Yays, de oil she come out 'ere" while pointing to the hole in the block where a Conrod had made a break for freedom.

 

Sincerely hope you don't find yourself pointing at a jagged hole and muttering "yup, that'd be it" to yourself.

 

Remember Slick 50? Apparently by coating your engine with PTFE particles, you could have run your car with no oil and had no ill effects - PHAKT

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Personally I wouldn't even bother doing anything with it. A major oil loss at speed like that will have wrecked the engine. The two options are replace the engine or bridge it.

This. Unfortunately.

 

If you need a hand or a lend of anything give me a shout, I'm only down the road.

 

In a way it's my fault for encouraging you all to go to Junkyard Jewels then not going myself

 

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[Parky]

Any news Mr Cog? I've run out of popcorn

[Datsuncog]

^^^ Just heading out now with the jack and Maglite etc, to see what is to be seen...

Cheers for all the above input - I appreciate the prognosis is likely to be terminal, but at this stage I'm going with the view that I can't really make it any more dead, and I might perhaps learn something... I mean, it's taxed for this month, I have plenty of oil... if I can find where it all ran out, that'd be a start.

EDIT: bastarding cat came in with a newly hatched crow in his beak, forcing me to chase him round the fucking house with it... then, after getting him to drop it and while I stood there squealing like a big girl's blouse trying to scoop it into a Pyrex bowl, the little prick came back with another one...

[Parky]

McGuyver once blocked a bullet ridden radiator with an egg. So if it's got a hole in the block, chuck an omelette in, pop it on Gumtree, and run away

[They_all_do_that_sir]

I keep thinking if a cheap barn or shed was available locally a few of us could chip in for a sort of autoshite NI headquarters

 

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[Squire_Dawson]

Of course, the next logical step is to return to Junkyard Jewels and take your pick of chod therein.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Of course, the next logical step is to return to Junkyard Jewels and take your pick of chod therein.

My money's on the Orion Ghia.

[Bren]

^^^ Just heading out now with the jack and Maglite etc, to see what is to be seen...

Cheers for all the above input - I appreciate the prognosis is likely to be terminal, but at this stage I'm going with the view that I can't really make it any more dead, and I might perhaps learn something... I mean, it's taxed for this month, I have plenty of oil... if I can find where it all ran out, that'd be a start.

EDIT: bastarding cat came in with a newly hatched crow in his beak, forcing me to chase him round the fucking house with it... then, after getting him to drop it and while I stood there squealing like a big girl's blouse trying to scoop it into a Pyrex bowl, the little prick came back with another one...

Tell him to come back with an engine..

[dome]

My moneys on one of the previous owners "fixes" having failed. It may be saveable, there's only one way to find out...

[Zelandeth]

Oil level gauge is useless in these circumstances - it takes a measurement when you turn the ignition on, then shuts off. Similar to the warning light on the Xantia.

 

Most spectacular oil leak I've seen was on a Fiat Panda where the filter itself split. That didn't half make a mess!

[Datsuncog]

Right, so... I'm afraid my amateur fumblings in the twilight haven't yet produced anything conclusive, but maybe we're a bit closer to ruling a few things out.

Jacking up one corner and securing it with an axle stand, I pulled off the front n/s wheel and waggled my flashlight around. Oil. Lotsa oil. I felt a bit like Jed Clampett - this oil's nuthin' but trouble. But - very little more than a few stray drips onto the rubber mats and container lids set down for such a purpose.

For a second, I thought I'd located the source of my woes: a threaded hole, with what looked like a drip of oil dewdropping from it. Could it be... a drain plug of some description had worked loose?



But no - for one thing, it was on the gearbox housing. For another, a quick comparative look under KAZ revealed the exact same threaded hole, but rather less free-ranging oil. So that one was the proverbial red herring.



But inspection revealed no untoward holes in the sump or block, and no obvious weeping at any gasket joints or around the oil filter.

All indications seemed to be that the oil exited high up, at the front of the engine. Right where the oil separator lurks, in fact - as Zelandeth has suggested.

And sure enough, here we have an interesting bodge - just as Dome predicted. Hmm.





The jubilee clip join came off very easily, which perhaps says all we need to know. I can't say I'm all that happy with what lurks inside.



So... my working theory is that in mashing the loud pedal, to avoid becoming the filling in a Steamboat Wullie/ Merc Boy sandwich, the rise in pressure within the crankcase was enough to pop the crappy bodge around the oil separator pipe. And the oil spattered out everywhere.

The tip of the dipstick still indicates some oil in the sump. The onboard oil level gauge shows a reading of one out of five (admittedly this could be the absolute minimum reading, I don't know). The oil pressure light goes out after a short while when the ignition goes on.

Had daylight remained, I would have popped the drain plug and decanted whatever was left, swapped the filter for a new one, and refilled it... But it looks like that's tomorrow's job.

[SiC]

So... my working theory is that in mashing the loud pedal, to avoid becoming the filling in a Steamboat Wullie/ Merc Boy sandwich, the rise in pressure within the crankcase was enough to pop the crappy bodge around the oil separator pipe. And the oil spattered out everywhere.

Should that even be a thing? Surely once you hit peak pressure, the oil pressure relief valve should limit the total maximum oil pressure on the engine. According to Renault, this should be roughly 1 bar at idle and 3 bar at 3k rpm. So I suspect 3 bar is the normal maximum pressure.

[SiC]

It comes on and then goes out before the engine is started?

 

How can it detect oil pressure before the engine is started?

 

Ben

I think this is normal Renault behaviour. This is a Clio dash on power-up. I believe the Laguna I dash has similar logic.

 

Also see this Clio 172 starting up: (skip to 20 seconds in)

 

I believe the oil pressure warning light will light if the engine is or has been running (i.e. revs aren't zero) and the pressure switch isn't closed. You also get the obligatory french STOP light illuminate to really tell you to pull over.

[Zelandeth]

Don't worry too much about a bit of mayo in the separator.

 

The PCV pipework and cam cover are likely the coolest bits of the engine, so if there's any condensation this is where you'll tend to see it. A bit of horrible gunge there doesn't necessarily mean blown head gasket. My Invacar produces a fair bit in there and it's air cooled! So long as it's only in the PCV assembly and isn't evident in the sump.

 

It however could clog things up quite a bit if excessive, especially if the car does a lot of short runs - which would make it far more likely to blow the whole assembly loose of its stub at peak crankcase pressure (full throttle at full RPM obviously)...so it could have been loose for ages, and this particular set of circumstances was enough to pop it loose. If it's proven to be the cause, couldn't hurt to give it a good clean out before reassembly.

 

Just scratching my head as to where else it can have come from... it's got to be breather or a core plug for me given where it seems to have come from.

 

Core plug could have given no warning - it's literally just a plug to blank of any drillings for oilways in the head or block (if applicable to this engine). Should be obvious with the engine running though as it will literally spray out most likely.

[Parky]

How hard is it to remove the cam cover? I might be tempted to have a look to see if the cam is scored up as a result of running without enough oil supply. If it is, it will sound like a mark2 Cavalier circa 1991 even if the bottom end has survived.

 

Whatever happens good luck with any attempted restart! If it does sound like a bag of nails, can I suggest We Buy Any Car and a can of this? No idea if it really works (Quentin Wilson says it does, but he's a lying gobshite) but WCPGW?

 

http://www.enginerestore.co.uk/what-is-restore-engine-restorer-3-w.asp

[andy18s]

I recall the story of Alfa Romeo's foray into Formula one in the 1980's.

 

After one particular race where a driver retired, the official explanation was "oil leak". When asked about this, the chief mechanic took the journalist over to the broken car in the pits and said (adopts comedy Italian phonetic, ahem...)

 

"Yays, de oil she come out 'ere" while pointing to the hole in the block where a Conrod had made a break for freedom.

 

 

Friend of mine used to rally a Group N Evo that failed to finish one rally

He stated it was down to an alternator failure,when in fact a con rod had gone through it.....

 

Hopefully you've found the culprit and it's not too painful to revive

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Looks reasonably promising. If the crankcase breather gubbins is gummed up to begin with you'll have been running a higher crankcase pressure anyway which under load would have caused the bodged pipework to blow.

 

You do a lot of short journeys in this don't you? (train station car) - that'll gain you plenty of condensation.

 

If I've had a week of only using the merc for station duties I get a wee bit of condensation / mayo under the filler cap which dissappears on a big run.

 

My V70 had a blocked PCV which I was unaware of until I towed the caravan up a big hill and under load the excess pressure blew out a cam seal....not quite as dramatic as your failure mind.

 

Overall I'd be tempted to put it right, get it running and sell the thing. Your heart is in the silver one, I'd put money on you having it running in a day if you really wanted to, swap insurance over and away you go.

 

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[beko1987]

Is there an Ireland version of Cannock?

[Mr Lobster]

Just lost a very enjoyable hour reading this. Sorry for your predicament but its a really enjoyable read!

 

Sounds like it *might* be a straightforward* fix but I'd be still tempted to get rid and concentrate on the other Laguna.  

[Anthony]

Should that even be a thing? Surely once you hit peak pressure, the oil pressure relief valve should limit the total maximum oil pressure on the engine. According to Renault, this should be roughly 1 bar at idle and 3 bar at 3k rpm. So I suspect 3 bar is the normal maximum pressure.

 

Remember that oil pressure =/= crankcase pressure.

 

You can easily have crankcase pressure through the roof due to blocked breathers, worn rings or whatever, when the oil pressure is fine and being governed by the relief spring as mentioned.