Zel's Motoring Adventures...Volvo, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 13/11.

[Zelandeth]

10 minutes ago, SiC said:

Usually on these age cars it dumps the excess coolant out of the radiator. It'll then find its own natural level where it stops doing it. 

That's my expectation - reckon I've just caught it a few times as I've usually checked it one way round, whereas the level sits higher when parked with the nose facing the garage.

I'd still rather have a catch bottle though for the sake of cats etc.  Though I do make sure to always use coolant with a bittering agent in so nothing really should be drinking it.

[SiC]

10 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I'd still rather have a catch bottle though for the sake of cats etc.  Though I do make sure to always use coolant with a bittering agent in so nothing really should be drinking it.

Yeah I understand that as a owner of cats. I find it's usually boiled it off pretty quickly once up to temperature when driving and it soaks quite quickly in. 

The Spitfire catch bottle isn't that expensive and it comes with a handy bracket. 

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Usually on these age cars it dumps the excess coolant out of the radiator. It'll then find its own natural level where it stops doing it. 

Yup. Mine just burps "too much" out and then it's good.

Normally a couple inches off totally full.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

12 hours ago, PhilA said:

Yup. Mine just burps "too much" out and then it's good.

Normally a couple inches off totally full.

 

Phil

Hopefully now it's not actively peeing coolant out anywhere I can leave it for a bit to find where its natural level should be.

[Zelandeth]

This morning the cold start device decided to stick partly on.  This burned through about 1/8 a tank of fuel in less than a mile.  This has informed me that empty is about 1/8 a tank on the gauge, and that the reserve fuel pump does indeed work.

Now I need to have a look at a carb diagram to figure out what is sticking.  It did this once before but the moment I touched the linkage for that it sorted itself last time.  This time it partly did, but it's plainly still way rich at idle, so something ain't happy.

I don't see a movable seat on this one so guessing it's just a setup that lifts the metering piston a bit.

Hard to see much of the carb without removing the intake duct, and it's currently raining, so we're ignoring it until the weather clears.

 

[SiC]

The HD8 carbs are a rather different setup and more complex beast than the HS and H carbs. Iirc there is a spare one in the box of bits if you want to have a fiddle to figure out what goes where before attacking the one on the car. 

I know I spent a fair bit staring at the diagram to figure how it all worked. 

[SiC]

Like you found, the reserve pump does work but I always felt it pumped with less vigor than the main pump. Perfectly fine for emergency switch but maybe something else to put on the fiddle list in the future? Tbh given the pickup is lower than the main, it could well just be picking up shite. Probably worth keeping an eye on that sediment bowl in the engine bay. 

A few in the owners club freaked out when they saw a picture of me having it on the reserve pump mode. 🤣

I think many do not risk using it. For me, I had to make sure it worked as if I needed it then I really wanted to know that it worked when I flicked that switch! 

A very handy thing having a complete backup SU pump. No need for the discerning gentleman who picked a Rover P4 to need to go into the boot and hit the pump with a hammer on a FTP. Just flick into the reserve pump and continue on fuss free motoring.

[Zelandeth]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

Like you found, the reserve pump does work but I always felt it pumped with less vigor than the main pump. Perfectly fine for emergency switch but maybe something else to put on the fiddle list in the future? Tbh given the pickup is lower than the main, it could well just be picking up shite. Probably worth keeping an eye on that sediment bowl in the engine bay. 

A few in the owners club freaked out when they saw a picture of me having it on the reserve pump mode. 🤣

I think many do not risk using it. For me, I had to make sure it worked as if I needed it then I really wanted to know that it worked when I flicked that switch! 

A very handy thing having a complete backup SU pump. No need for the discerning gentleman who picked a Rover P4 to need to go into the boot and hit the pump with a hammer on a FTP. Just flick into the reserve pump and continue on fuss free motoring.

Unlikely to ever be needed again to be honest, I very rarely let my cars get below 1/4 a tank anyway as it makes me nervous.  Glad I know where empty is now though!  

Being a mechanical device though I reckon running it for a few mins every month or two has to be a good thing to make sure it doesn't stick though.  Definitely is quieter than the main pump - though that could just be it's seen far less use...I may look into it one day.  

I did just remember the spare carb about when you posted this reply and am about to go have a nosey at it to figure out what does what and what can be sticking.  Imagine it will be rather less confusing when not standing on my head!

[PhilA]

Dashpot still got oil in it?

[Zelandeth]

On 7/24/2023 at 1:40 PM, PhilA said:

Dashpot still got oil in it?

Yep. One of the first things I checked.

Seems to be fine under load, but the idle mixture seems to be really on the rich side now.  The thumps and bangs from the exhaust silencer on the overrun tend to support my theory we're running rather rich.  

I'm wondering if we've got some crud that has managed to find its way into the carb - there was quite a bit of crud in the sediment bowl, though that could well have let through some smaller particulates.  Don't imagine it would take much to mess about the slow running adjustment as that's a screw and needle valve setup that essentially bypasses the throttle and metering piston.

[PhilA]

If it's got some fine dirt in then the jet slider may be sticking independently of the mechanism - but generally that's going to run it lean. Pops and thumps back up the carb is usually a lean scenario.

Time for the ultrasound machine.

[Zelandeth]

20 minutes ago, PhilA said:

 

Time for the ultrasound machine.

Kind of what I've been thinking.  No idea when it was last looked at, so I'll get a gasket set ordered then set about giving it a good clean.  I'm just loathe to poke any adjustments in the interim as it was running fine up till yesterday, so something clearly changed then - and evidence suggests it's something to do with the needle lift mechanism given that's what the choke operates on.  Though that linkage now all seems to be moving smoothly after a bit of lubrication was applied.

Pops and bangs are from the exhaust on the overrun (sounding more violent than I've heard from the car up till now) rather than popping back through the carb intake.

[PhilA]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Kind of what I've been thinking.  No idea when it was last looked at, so I'll get a gasket set ordered then set about giving it a good clean.  I'm just loathe to poke any adjustments in the interim as it was running fine up till yesterday, so something clearly changed then - and evidence suggests it's something to do with the needle lift mechanism given that's what the choke operates on.  Though that linkage now all seems to be moving smoothly after a bit of lubrication was applied.

Pops and bangs are from the exhaust on the overrun (sounding more violent than I've heard from the car up till now) rather than popping back through the carb intake.

Okay yeah, that's excessively rich.

 

Maybe run a bit of Seafoam through it then?

[Zelandeth]

Need to take a closer look at things tomorrow.  I'd deliberately not twiddled any adjustments as it was running fine before - however discovered that the slow running adjustment screw was literally held in by about half a thread...something tells me that should be screwed in rather further than that.

I did check to see if our lumpy idle was anything to do with the ignition side of things given we'd had issues with weak spark previously.  Nope...pleeeeeeenty of spark now.  Plenty to jump over an inch and belt the hell out of me that's for sure.  After about ten minutes my eyes had stopped spinning and I decided that side of things was getting ignored for now.

Realistically there's most likely some gunk in the carb.  There was just a little bit of crud in the sediment bowl after all.

Had a nose around the engine bay on the Renault with a view to seeing if there were any unpleasant surprises awaiting me when I go to change the head gasket.  Oh, and to start dousing the exhaust manifold and downpipe studs in PlusGas.  

Noticed there was a distinct lack of a hose clip on the main vacuum line to the brake servo...no bloody clue how I missed that before.  The end of the hose was a little perished too so it was trimmed back and a proper clip fitted.

I'd swear the engine is idling smoother now...can't have been a major leak there, but I know it doesn't take much downstream of the MAP sensor to foul things up on these.  Will see when I've a bit more time tomorrow.

Spotted a while ago that the offside interior light had been out for a while - which I'd been pointedly ignoring.  Simply because they looked suspiciously like the same sort of plastic PSA used on the interior lights on the BX, which I know like to spontaneously disintegrate if you so much as breathe on them.  

Thankfully it turned out to be purely a visual resemblance and the lenses are still nicely compliant and came off in one piece.

Didn't clean up badly either.

 

Back in place and now functional.

About number 7893 on the priority list, but still nice to have ticked off.

[Zelandeth]

I went for another look at the Rover's carb today.  Armed with a bit more knowledge of how the various adjustments worked and a bit of time I had a better shot at figuring out what was going on.

The issue basically is that the car is running pig rich at idle.  Even with the mixture screw wound all the way to lean - it's still waaaaaay too rich.  So most likely there's gunk in the channel the metering needle sits in.

Most likely it just needs a good clean.  I've no idea when it was last looked over.

Helpfully you can pop the float bowl lid off these carbs to get a vague idea of the state of things without needing to dismantle anything else.

Let's take a look.

Mmm...that looks nice and clean...

Sure this is exactly what you want sitting around in your carb...

Lovely!

Yeah...I think we can safely say this would benefit from a strip down and clean.  If it's in the float bowl that same slime will no doubt be liberally spread over the rest of the carb.  In which case I'm astonished it's been running well up till now!

Oh well, at least I know now!

Found a vacuum leak while I was poking around too.

This is the vacuum line to the brake servo.

I suspect this was absolutely fine until it spent a while inhaling brake fluid when the original servo failed at which point it started breaking down.  Replaced now though.

Of course this means I need to remove the carb...which means I need to undo that bloody manifold to carb nut again.  Oh how I'm looking forward to that...

[SiC]

Crikey that hose has perished quickly. It looked in pretty good nick when I reused it for the servo. Like you said, its probably the brake fluid.

How did you get the float out? Looking through my photos, I didn't remove it as I couldn't figure how to get it out without taking off the carb and tipping it upside down. My best guess was to fill with petrol but I didn't have any to hand nor did I want to spill it everywhere.

The float needle is brand new genuine SU so hopefully should be working well..

[Zelandeth]

48 minutes ago, SiC said:

Crikey that hose has perished quickly. It looked in pretty good nick when I reused it for the servo. Like you said, its probably the brake fluid.

How did you get the float out? Looking through my photos, I didn't remove it as I couldn't figure how to get it out without taking off the carb and tipping it upside down. My best guess was to fill with petrol but I didn't have any to hand nor did I want to spill it everywhere.

The float needle is brand new genuine SU so hopefully should be working well..

Yeah, brake fluid tends to do quite a number on rubber that wasn't specifically designed to deal with it in short order.

Getting the float out consisted of using two screwdrivers as a pair of chopsticks to just pick it up.

I don't imagine it's a float level issue as that wouldn't have just materialised suddenly unless the needle was totally clogged, but there's no sign of that - and I've thoroughly blown it through both ways with carb cleaner with no impact on the symptoms.

[Zelandeth]

Awaiting a carb rebuild kit for the Rover now.  I did note that there were signs of a slight vacuum leak around the throttle spindle, so I figured in the interests of saving future headaches as I need to get it apart anyway it's a good time to just change the throttle shaft, bushings etc.  Not disturbing the float bowl needle/seat though as I know those were just changed.  

Can probably get away without needing half of that, but I figure I'd rather just know it's been properly gone through.

Had TPA out for today's errand run.

Raising local property values one car at a time.

[SiC]

Do replacement bushes require reaming machining to fit the spindle on the HD8?

[Zelandeth]

6 minutes ago, SiC said:

Do replacement bushes require machining to fit the spindle on the HD8?

The kit includes a matched set of bushes and new spindle, so all that work has already been done for me thankfully.  Should be near as possible to a plug and play fix.

Wish I could just buy a kit like that for the Weber on TPA!

[LightBulbFun]

47 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Awaiting a carb rebuild kit for the Rover now.  I did note that there were signs of a slight vacuum leak around the throttle spindle, so I figured in the interests of saving future headaches as I need to get it apart anyway it's a good time to just change the throttle shaft, bushings etc.  Not disturbing the float bowl needle/seat though as I know those were just changed.  

Can probably get away without needing half of that, but I figure I'd rather just know it's been properly gone through.

Had TPA out for today's errand run.

Raising local property values one car at a time.

amusingly TPA is probably the only asset that IS appreciating in that shot   

8 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Wish I could just buy a kit like that for the Weber on TPA!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295448247125

(yes of course it shows up only *after* I go through whole the faff of sourcing a replacement carb and then @red5 having to go through the faff of making 1 good carb out of the 2)

[SiC]

14 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

The kit includes a matched set of bushes and new spindle, so all that work has already been done for me thankfully.  Should be near as possible to a plug and play fix

Are you 100% sure? I was always under the impression they still needed machining once in place 

https://sucarb.co.uk/technical-hd-type-carburetter-reassembly

 

[Zelandeth]

36 minutes ago, SiC said:

Are you 100% sure? I was always under the impression they still needed machining once in place 

https://sucarb.co.uk/technical-hd-type-carburetter-reassembly

 

Hmm.  Does look that way doesn't it.  That will teach me to not do further reading.  I'll need to read up on what that entails and the needed tools at some time that's not the middle of the night.

 

47 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

amusingly TPA is probably the only asset that IS appreciating in that shot   

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295448247125

(yes of course it shows up only *after* I go through whole the faff of sourcing a replacement carb and then @red5 having to go through the faff of making 1 good carb out of the 2)

Well getting one of those ordered now while I have it visible as I know there's some perceptible wear on the spindle on TPA's carb which I'm sure isn't going to be helping anything.  Though it's definitely going to be a "keep in stock for future" job here as given how well she's currently running while I know there's wear there I'm not inclined to go poking it.

[Zelandeth]

Between it being rather breezy and me being short of energy today (aside: Chronic fatigue sucks), FotU wasn't going to happen.  While I don't doubt for a second that TPA would have made the journey without the slightest issue, I'd have been wrecked.

So instead I wandered over to a little show in Deanshanger I spotted linked to by the MK Classic Car Club on Facebook yesterday.  

There were a lot of cars from the Pop and Bang brigade there and an unreasonable number of modern Lamborghinis (seriously, there must have been the best part of a dozen of them), but there were a few interesting motors there.

This is probably the colour scheme I'd pick for one of these.

Still never driven one yet, I really need to fix that one day.

I've never seen one of these in convertible form.  I had hoped to talk to the owner to find out if it was just something a bit rare I've missed or was a one off.  However every time I passed by they were deep in conversation so I didn't have the opportunity to talk to them.

I really like that rear profile.

Also on the rather attractive end of the spectrum, what classic show is complete without an E-Type?

Bit more Autoshite.

These seemed so bland to me when they were new...little did I know at the time how bad things would get ten years or so later!

Don't think I've ever seen a Renault 4CV before.  Pretty little thing.

Lot of nice little details like these grills on the air intakes.

Apparently I failed to snap anything from the front sadly.  Though the Beetle crossed with a Fiat 500 vibe continues really.

Don't really need to introduce a DeLorean do I?

Not many cars make a Mini look tall!

Yep. Still want one.

Maybe one day, though I doubt I'll ever see one at a price I could reasonably justify.  Missed the boat on that by about 25 years.

Actually did remember to take a photo of my own car to prove I was there for a change.

Nice little Mini next door.  Don't imagine they park next to smaller cars than them at many shows!

Couple of cars very at home on these pages.

Apparently this Rover has just returned to the road after a 12 year hibernation.

Prime Autoshite?

Not totally sure *what* this is.

Guessing mostly Morris Minor under the skin given the prominent Morris badging.

Probably the classiest motor there would be this Bentley.

That is a car which truly has presence.

 

Couple of packages were waiting for me when I got home from that little afternoon exercise in getting sunburnt.

Carb rebuild parts for the Rover.

Also the remaining head gasket parts are now here for the Renault.

Already had the timing belt kit in stock so that's not shown here.

Hopefully get stuck into that in the not too distant future - but the Rover is getting sorted first.  That will be tomorrow afternoon's task most likely.

[Zelandeth]

Okay, time to get stuck in to the carb cleaning on the Rover.

One carburettor.

My suspicion that the innards were likely to be as grubby as the float bowl was pretty quickly proven to be correct.

That's about a third of what I dug out of there before it was dumped into the ultrasonic cleaner then left it to stew for half an hour.

I also discovered that the diaphragm was shot.  I couldn't see any actual cracks all the way through, but it was definitely perished and had basically turned to plastic.

Beyond this point I was covered in carb cleaner etc so no further photos.  However it basically consisted of removing all of the major parts of the carb and then putting it together again.  I decided not to disturb the throttle shaft at this point, nor replace the needle/seat.  My logic here was simple: That until the cold start control physically stuck and resulted in me likely pulling a load of crud out the bottom of the tank, it was running the engine absolutely fine.  Visual examination of the needle showed no visible wear or damage at all.  There is a tiny bit of play in the throttle shaft, so long term I will probably change it.  Right now however I'm not throwing more variables into the mix.  I know with the carb clean, it should go back to being fine.  I might go back in and finish the rebuild at a later date - when I'm not in a situation where I have only 2/5 cars working!  

A little disappointingly the carb to manifold gasket supplied with the kit from SU isn't correct as it lacks the cutout for the slow running air passage.  Luckily I still had one in stock from when I bought the head gasket kit.

With everything back together I set about trying to dial things in.  For what felt like forever.  I just couldn't get the engine to idle smoothly no matter what I did with the mixture adjustment.  It would clear up around 1000rpm or so, but below that would just get really stumbly.  Until I took about 10 degrees of timing out.  At which point she immediately returned to a more or less smooth idle.  Not quite as smooth as it used to be, but I was clearly in the right ball park.  

I'm not sure if the distributor had crept out of adjustment (the clamp wasn't massively tight) or what had happened there, as I'd not touched the timing in a long while.  

Anyhow, with that set more sensibly I set about trying to find tune things a bit.  While working largely by ear, I figured I may as well use the equipment I had to help see what I was doing.

This is where she seemed happiest.  

I'm still waiting for connecting things up like this to stop feeling all kinds of wrong.

I did have a helper for a good portion of the time.

Was quite surprised, they must have sat there for a good 15 minutes or so.

The wiring on the nearside of the engine bay had shed a fair chunk of the mouter cloth loom covering at one point and it was blowing around ridiculously in the airflow from the fan.  So I set about tidying that up a bit.

Bit tidier at least.  

On a similar note I noticed that the wiring loom down to the generator was rubbing against the brake servo at higher revs due to the airflow from the fan making it flap around at one spot so secured that in place so it no longer moves around.

There's still plenty of slack to allow for normal movement of the engine relative to the body.

I've had the car out for a few test runs this afternoon and aside from needing to tweak the accelerator linkage a little it seems to be running spot on again, and definitely feels like she has more go than before. Happy with that.

The one thing I do need to do is reattach the intake silencer.  Though I have to admit there is a part of me which doesn't want to...I fully appreciate why Rover fitted it, but without it in place there is a truly gorgeous noise on tap when you're making progress.

I would like to get a paper element fuel filter installed between the sediment bowl and the carb, just to capture the smaller particles which can (evidently) get through the strainer.  Though I'll need to acquire some fittings to do that as it's an armoured nylon line with crimped on fittings, so not just a matter of splicing in a bit of hose as on many cars.

Have a few things I need to run out for tomorrow, so will get things buttoned back up and see how she runs through the day.

If things go well over the next couple of days, getting stuck into the Renault's head work will be the next big job.

Assuming I don't get sidetracked breathing life back into this anyway.

WWII era short wave radio receiver, power supply unit and I believe a full set of frequency selection coils to go with it.  Be interesting to see how much work is involved in getting that revived...my bet is "way less than you'd think" to be honest.  Aside from a few caps needing changed I bet it will just work.

[SiC]

7 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

armoured nylon line with crimped on fittings

I was amazed to see this on a car this age. At first I thought it wasn't original until a bit of research said it was. I put that sort of stuff on post 80s and much more modern cars. Never realised it was used so early. 

[SiC]

Good work on the carb too. I always enjoy a good SU strip down and cleanup. Should really invest in a ultrasonic cleaner. Everytime I look at them, I get stuck on the size I need to get. 

I think leaving the throttle shaft is a good plan. It's what I've always done so far and it's been fine. There might be a bit of leakage but I've never had one bad enough that I couldn't tune it out a bit. One day I'll end up having to bite the bullet and send them to SU Burlen for a proper rebuild though. 

Might be worth checking the needle isn't binding and if it is, recentering the needle. Should be okay as not really disturbed but then it's been apart and move around. 

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

Good work on the carb too. I always enjoy a good SU strip down and cleanup. Should really invest in a ultrasonic cleaner. Everytime I look at them, I get stuck on the size I need to get. 

I think leaving the throttle shaft is a good plan. It's what I've always done so far and it's been fine. There might be a bit of leakage but I've never had one bad enough that I couldn't tune it out a bit. One day I'll end up having to bite the bullet and send them to SU Burlen for a proper rebuild though. 

Might be worth checking the needle isn't binding and if it is, recentering the needle. Should be okay as not really disturbed but then it's been apart and move around. 

For the cleaner the answer I'd always go for is "the biggest one you can afford." I think this one was two litre - but I really wish I'd gone at least one size up.  Though it still does the job thanks to the brilliant tip I was given to cut the top off a 5 litre bottle, stick that in the cleaner and fill the bottle with your cleaning solution.  Just then add enough water to the thing to fill the gap.

Works like a charm, and makes emptying/cleaning it way easier too.

[Zelandeth]

Run down to Dunstable and back completed.  Aside from the throttle pedal having a bit of a tendency to stick about 1.5% on unless I tap it with my foot all seems to be back to normal.  

If it stops raining I'll go and fine tune the throttle linkage adjustment a little.  Nothing amiss there other than me not having reattached things in exactly the same location.

[SiC]

29 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Aside from the throttle pedal having a bit of a tendency to stick about 1.5% on unless I tap it with my foot all seems to be back to normal.  

You need to preload the spring on the throttle linkage so it holds it shut. Basically undo the connection between the pedal linkage and carb, then wind it back a bit and then tighten up the lot. It's incredibly overly complex just to save the mess of a throttle cable hanging over the engine bay!

Some pics for others reading this thread to understand all the bits that make up this throttle linkage! That black cover hides essentially a springing rod.