Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar, Volvo & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 09/10.

[Zelandeth]

11 minutes ago, R1152 said:

That's how it worked on my 1982 Renault 18GTL - from the vacuum sensor. There was a switch on the gearbox that closed when 5th gear was engaged to prevent the red LED illuminating. On my 18 the plug had already come off the switch because Renault had made the connection so tight you could have played a tune on it. Refitting it fixed it so that if you hoofed it in 5th, apart from the bloody thing pinking like mad you only got the yellow LED on at worst.

Just had a peek at the schematics, looks like it's just those two lights on the BX.  Though there's a grid of them that spans the entire width of the instrument panel...they only actually used two!

[R1152]

Is item 24 the vacuum sensor then? It looks like the orange lamp can be varied in intensity and a switch can turn them both off completely too.

[Zelandeth]

8 minutes ago, R1152 said:

Is item 24 the vacuum sensor then? It looks like the orange lamp can be varied in intensity and a switch can turn them both off completely too.

Yep, 24 is the sensor.  It keeps them both off unless you're on the throttle it looks like based on what I've seen of it.

[dozeydustman]

Excellent work you have done on the caramac Citroen there sir!

Like the gauges on the Invacar as well

9 million/10

[Zelandeth]

Package arrived this morning for TPA.

Installation was pretty straightforward...Though I still had to fabricate a cable end.  I think I just need to go to Speedy Cables or similar and just order a proper cable.  The issue seems to be that (unsurprisingly) the cable has a standard motorcycle type barrel connector at the handlebar end...but finding off the shelf motorbike throttle cables more than a couple of metres long is tricky - and this needs to be a touch over five metres long because of the routing.  As it is having trimmed away the frayed bit of cable I'm now down to literally millimetres to spare, and it's a bit frilly at the handlebar end so will likely fail again in the not too distant future. 

Nevertheless, it does mean that I've now got matching grips on the handlebars which looks SO much better.

The throttle action is also way better...It always felt very much as though it wasn't attached to anything before, so you were never quite sure how much throttle you were applying - and I'm not 100% certain that I was ever actually getting full throttle as the old twist grip was distorted and binding up at several points in its travel.  New one is all metal so should hopefully fare better.

New grips are a good deal chunkier than the old ones which I think will be a good thing.

Will have to wait for a test drive to be certain, but just sitting in the garage it feels better I think.

[LightBulbFun]

59 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Package arrived this morning for TPA.

Installation was pretty straightforward...Though I still had to fabricate a cable end.  I think I just need to go to Speedy Cables or similar and just order a proper cable.  The issue seems to be that (unsurprisingly) the cable has a standard motorcycle type barrel connector at the handlebar end...but finding off the shelf motorbike throttle cables more than a couple of metres long is tricky - and this needs to be a touch over five metres long because of the routing.  As it is having trimmed away the frayed bit of cable I'm now down to literally millimetres to spare, and it's a bit frilly at the handlebar end so will likely fail again in the not too distant future. 

Nevertheless, it does mean that I've now got matching grips on the handlebars which looks SO much better.

The throttle action is also way better...It always felt very much as though it wasn't attached to anything before, so you were never quite sure how much throttle you were applying - and I'm not 100% certain that I was ever actually getting full throttle as the old twist grip was distorted and binding up at several points in its travel.  New one is all metal so should hopefully fare better.

New grips are a good deal chunkier than the old ones which I think will be a good thing.

Will have to wait for a test drive to be certain, but just sitting in the garage it feels better I think.

Oh awesome! I hope they work well/are comfortable on long drives, as Id very much like to get at least a new twist grip for REV as hers is quite broken LOL

so will be wanting a link to where you got that set if they work well for you, so I can get a set for REV

and the same goes for the throttle cable, as you know the setup in REV is unusually stiff despite being replaced entirely with NOS bits from the parts stash, 

so if your able to replace the throttle cable successfully then id like to copy whatever it is you do if possible to hopefully sort out REV's throttle cable woes

(or at least see if theres a better way to run her existing cable)

 

is the throttle cable really 5 meters long?! the throttle cable in MPH759P snapped and the owner measured it at 3 meters and a foot (although I trust your measurements much more then his!)

but as for actually replacing it, I recall last time you ended up ordering like a 20 meter roll of throttle cable and just made your own up so just wondering why the remainder of that cant be used to make a new cable once more?

but funny you mentioned Speedy cables as they where the ones who made most of the Model 70 Cables for the Ministry into the 1990s/2000s

while I have not specifically seen a throttle cable from then I dont think? I have  seen most others (like handbrake and heater/choke control cables) from them for the Model 70

so they may have the Model 70 Throttle cable specifications all ready to go so to speak  

 

STY409 Twist grip throttle cable, outer cover

STY410 Twist grip throttle cable, inner

Technical service Drawing TSD 2793 (this is for both the inner and outer)

 

are what the Throttle cable inner and out are likely to be listed under if they do (still) have the specs for them

[Zelandeth]

I may well still have cable...You've seen my garage.  Five metres is the number I've got in my head, but I could be off there.  I know it's well more than three as three was the longest I could seem to get hold of with the right end pre-crimped on and it wasn't long enough by a long shot.

I need to have another dig around - it was the cable end that I was struggling for originally.  I bought several DIY cable end kits, but they all had little screw together ends which were too big for this application - and hard to tell as there was no dimensions given in the listings or anything in the photo to use to get a sense of scale.

It's just turned into onto of those things that I've wound up spending as much money faffing about with getting the wrong parts that I'd have been just as cheap to get one made up for me by a specialist (I'd probably buy two so I had a spare) in the first place. 

I imagine it wouldn't have been anywhere near as big a problem in the past - even back when I had my first Skoda in 2005-ish when I needed a new throttle cable for that I was able to go to an old-school parts shop where they just pulled cable off the reel and crimped the end on for me there-and-then.  These days even where you can find anything like that it's all in little pre-packaged boxes or bags...nobody seems to have the kit to actually make stuff up any more.  Which is frustrating as other than being a bit on the long side it's absolutely *nothing* special.

Pretty sure this is the set of grips I ordered

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

I may well still have cable...You've seen my garage.  Five metres is the number I've got in my head, but I could be off there.  I know it's well more than three as three was the longest I could seem to get hold of with the right end pre-crimped on and it wasn't long enough by a long shot.

I need to have another dig around - it was the cable end that I was struggling for originally.  I bought several DIY cable end kits, but they all had little screw together ends which were too big for this application - and hard to tell as there was no dimensions given in the listings or anything in the photo to use to get a sense of scale.

It's just turned into onto of those things that I've wound up spending as much money faffing about with getting the wrong parts that I'd have been just as cheap to get one made up for me by a specialist (I'd probably buy two so I had a spare) in the first place. 

I imagine it wouldn't have been anywhere near as big a problem in the past - even back when I had my first Skoda in 2005-ish when I needed a new throttle cable for that I was able to go to an old-school parts shop where they just pulled cable off the reel and crimped the end on for me there-and-then.  These days even where you can find anything like that it's all in little pre-packaged boxes or bags...nobody seems to have the kit to actually make stuff up any more.  Which is frustrating as other than being a bit on the long side it's absolutely *nothing* special.

Pretty sure this is the set of grips I ordered

Yeah fair point

this reminds me tho, do you know the diameter of your throttle cable out and the the diameter of the ferrule that goes on the end (as what you have pre existing obviously seems to be fitting the twist grip you ordered so should tell me what throttle cable outer and associated ferrules I need)

when I went to fit a good throttle twist grip from the spares stash to REV we discovered that the throttle cable outer/ferrule was too small diameter wise for the twist grip

and im just wondering if I have an unusually skinny throttle cable outer/ferrule or if the twist grip wanted an unusually chunky throttle cable outer

although IIRC said twist grip I tried to fit to REV was identical to TPA's old one or looked like it at least, so that would point to an unusually skinny throttle cable outer or skinny ferrule I think? but I dont exactly know the ins and outs of throttle cables and what is and is not standardised etc etc

 

thanks for the link that looks the same to me, have book marked it for future reference  

[Zelandeth]

Nothing much today, mainly just got an oil & filter change done on the BX.  No more horrible rusty oil filter.

That wasn't the worst filter to get off I've dealt with, but it wasn't far off.  I had to get the chain wrench and breaker bar involved. 

Pulled just over seven litres of oil, just under six went back in.

The discoloration on the dipstick shows where the level has been sitting for quite a while, a good inch above max.

Getting the oil filler cap off was a task in itself - get the impression it's not been off in a while, and it's just a friction fit.

Being the coolest point of the engine doesn't surprise me we've got quite a bit of condensation here.

If it's still looking like that after an hour's blat up the A5 or M1 then I'll look more closely, but there doesn't seem to be any pressurisation of the coolant, it looks spotlessly clean and she idles smoothly so reckon it is just old fashioned condensation.  Remember this car was last in MOT in 2011...so she's not had a proper run in forever.  TPA had just as much gunk in the filler neck for the same reason when she was first revived.

I did spot a couple of electrical things needing immediate attention while I was waiting for the oil to drain.  Firstly this Scotchlok on one of the alternator lines.

Note the stub of brown wire...which sits exactly as close to this hydraulic line as it looks like.

Yeah... that's getting soldered and covered with heatshrink ASAP.

I originally thought this was a drain line for some reason...

It appears to vanish down through the bulkhead grommet towards the fuse box.  I'll investigate further tomorrow... that's going to be getting removed at the first opportunity.

I can also confirm now that being in the humble RE trim level it doesn't look like this car has an oil level sensor (not sure if the wiring is there, hence if it could be retrofitted easily), unlike the higher trim levels.

Have to admit that while I was kind of scratching my head about whether taking on this car when she first arrived, I'm really, really looking forward to driving it now.

Dammit... I'm already getting attached to it and I've not even driven it yet!

Oh...and the fuel gauge illumination has come back to life again.

It heard me thinking about pulling the panel to investigate that apparently!

[R1152]

Looking at that Scotchlok made me think back to yesterday's video by @dollywobbler which had me wondering if his keys for the Invacar were in danger of coming into contact with his newly-fitted indicator stalk... 

[dollywobbler]

Having done a fair bit of driving in TWC, I don't think they keys are an issue.

Lovely progress here Zel. 1980s PSA stuff was notorious for a bit of creme-de-la-mayo in the winter months, so I wouldn't be unduly alarmed.

[Zelandeth]

Today's unexciting update...TPA has had an engine oil & filter change.

I had another shot at a Slow-Mo video of the distributor working in daylight. 

Got another angle where you can see the points opening and closing.

Quite interesting to actually see things working.  Can see from the lack of sparking there that the replacement capacitor setup I put in place. 

[Zelandeth]

Hey look what was dropped off for the BX today...

These are actually rear spheres for a non-hydractive Xantia rather than BX ones, but they're pretty close spec wise.  Will be absolutely fine for the purposes of getting the car into a driveable state.  Once she's got an MOT and is driving reliably I'll look at getting the exact correct ones.

So tomorrow (if time permits) the battle to change the rear spheres will begin.  I've been regularly dousing them in PlusGas since the car arrived and I've been loaned the right tool for the job but I'm still expecting this to be a royal battle.

 

[Zelandeth]

Well I didn't see that coming!

I was expecting a battle of biblical proportions to get these off.  Nope...They just unscrewed absolutely fine.  No huge explosion of LHM when they came off either so the diaphragms are probably still intact.

New spheres went on without any issue, even though the nearside one is a little obscured by the rear silencer.

She has rear suspension again now!  Huge step forward. 

Unfortunately now being in a position where I was giving serious scrutiny to the rear end of the car I did spot an issue.  We do have an LHM leak.

Initially I thought this was coming from the seal on the sphere I'd just changed - but fluid only appears here when the brake pedal is pressed, at which point it appears in quite significant quantities.  Looks like we've got a failed brake line then.  Not sure if the BX has the same little spiral of brake pipe behind the caliper that the Xantia has - if it does, that's got to be the prime suspect as I've seen that rust out on several Xantias where the lines were otherwise spotless.

Wonder if this might be the fault which originally took the car off the road? 

Whatever took her off the road, she's got a step closer back to it today.

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Well I didn't see that coming!

I was expecting a battle of biblical proportions to get these off.  Nope...They just unscrewed absolutely fine.  No huge explosion of LHM when they came off either so the diaphragms are probably still intact.

New spheres went on without any issue, even though the nearside one is a little obscured by the rear silencer.

She has rear suspension again now!  Huge step forward. 

Unfortunately now being in a position where I was giving serious scrutiny to the rear end of the car I did spot an issue.  We do have an LHM leak.

Initially I thought this was coming from the seal on the sphere I'd just changed - but fluid only appears here when the brake pedal is pressed, at which point it appears in quite significant quantities.  Looks like we've got a failed brake line then.  Not sure if the BX has the same little spiral of brake pipe behind the caliper that the Xantia has - if it does, that's got to be the prime suspect as I've seen that rust out on several Xantias where the lines were otherwise spotless.

Wonder if this might be the fault which originally took the car off the road? 

Whatever took her off the road, she's got a step closer back to it today.

I wonder given how pretty much everything on a car like this is powered/operated by LHM

is there an LHM schematic/circuit diagram for lack of a better word somewhere?

would be interesting to see it if there is one im curious to see how everything is connected together exactly  

[Daviemck2006]

It's often the case when expecting a difficult job for it to end up easy, then when you think this will just take 5 minutes, and the reality is nearer 5 hours of skinned knuckles, lots of profanity and swearing off I'm never touching a car again lol

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I wonder given how pretty much everything on a car like this is powered/operated by LHM

is there an LHM schematic/circuit diagram for lack of a better word somewhere?

would be interesting to see it if there is one im curious to see how everything is connected together exactly  

What, like this one?

It's really nowhere near as complicated as people seem to make out.

The addition of the hydractive system on the later Xantias did add quite a lot of complexity as it added electronic control over a lot of the system, additional spheres to allow variable damping volume on circuits etc - and of course the Activa goes a step further with the ARCS setup - which is basically Hydractive 3 with two extra rams tacked on if my understanding is correct. 

It's really on those later cars that the system started to become its own worst enemy as with each additional component is added additional pipework...and in many cases return pipework.  You quickly start getting into a situation where you find that you can't get to what you need to because there are an additional four pipes already in the way.  Especially as the plastic low pressure return lines have by now become quite brittle so you really don't want to have to move them if you can avoid it!

Even then, it's still just pipes, hydraulic rams, solenoid valves and the like... there's no witchcraft involved - though some patience and research can be needed to figure out what's going on with the later cars when electronic faults can get involved too.  At least the BX is totally free of that side of things.

[LightBulbFun]

43 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

What, like this one?

It's really nowhere near as complicated as people seem to make out.

The addition of the hydractive system on the later Xantias did add quite a lot of complexity as it added electronic control over a lot of the system, additional spheres to allow variable damping volume on circuits etc - and of course the Activa goes a step further with the ARCS setup - which is basically Hydractive 3 with two extra rams tacked on if my understanding is correct. 

It's really on those later cars that the system started to become its own worst enemy as with each additional component is added additional pipework...and in many cases return pipework.  You quickly start getting into a situation where you find that you can't get to what you need to because there are an additional four pipes already in the way.  Especially as the plastic low pressure return lines have by now become quite brittle so you really don't want to have to move them if you can avoid it!

Even then, it's still just pipes, hydraulic rams, solenoid valves and the like... there's no witchcraft involved - though some patience and research can be needed to figure out what's going on with the later cars when electronic faults can get involved too.  At least the BX is totally free of that side of things.

Oh very cool!  

its interesting at how much it does just look like an electrical schematic

 

[R1152]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Whatever took her off the road, she's got a step closer back to it today.

Okay, I'm going to ask the inevitable stupid question here.

The front bumper is body coloured. Shouldn't the rear one be too?

[Fumbler]

17 minutes ago, R1152 said:

Okay, I'm going to ask the inevitable stupid question here.

The front bumper is body coloured. Shouldn't the rear one be too?

Yes- the rear bumper on it right now is off a Mk.2 BX IIRC.

[Zelandeth]

31 minutes ago, R1152 said:

Okay, I'm going to ask the inevitable stupid question here.

The front bumper is body coloured. Shouldn't the rear one be too?

 

Yes.  Rear bumper colour and profile are way wrong as it's from a Series II BX.  It's on the list for the future.

[vulgalour]

From one BX fettler to another, regarding those rear spheres...

 

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, vulgalour said:

From one BX fettler to another, regarding those rear spheres...

 

Oh the Xantia was one of our bread and butter cars at the dealer I worked at so I've done probably dozens of them... that's why I was so utterly gobsmacked they came off without having to hire a jack hammer or resorting to getting thermite involved...

[Zelandeth]

The LHM leak is definitely somewhere up above the nearside rear suspension arm.

Didn't have time to get the wheel off to investigate today - the offending line is totally obscured by said wheel so no clear view of it today.

You may recall a few months ago I finally got the correct indicator stalk fitted to the Invacar and took the opportunity to move it over to the left hand side, which makes far more sense from an ergonomic perspective.  This did however leave a rusty patch where the stalk assembly used to sit.

This has been bugging me for some time...now I've got new grips it sticks out even more.  So took the opportunity to splash some fresh paint around.

Won't be quite that shiny once it dries, should tidy things up a bit though.

[vulgalour]

There is a pipe that runs up there where the BX is leaking, it's one of the main ones.  Good news though, you can do it without dropping the subframe, you just need to get the car high enough in the air that you can move your arms about above your head.  I was lucky that I had access to a ramp when I did the white one.  With care, you can unfeed the bust line and feed the new one in.  It's probably a whole world easier to replace the pipe if you do drop the subframe, but that's a whole pile of work in itself as you'll no doubt already know.  I don't think there's a curly pipe on that side, pretty sure that's the other side near the height corrector, from memory.  I'd suspect a soft spot on the pipe hidden up above the subframe where you can't see or feel.

[Zelandeth]

It definitely seems to be on the brake circuit as it only loses fluid when the pedal is pressed.  Moving the suspension doesn't have any effect on it. 

Paint has definitely improved the looks of things in TPA's cockpit.

Not perfect if you peer at it too closely, but is definitely less scruffy.

[vulgalour]

Had a look through the old BX photos to see if I had anything that might help and I've only got this shot from the driver's side.  I believe the line runs from the caliper, up the trailing arm, and to that spiral bit, then up to the crossbeam of the subframe.  I really don't remember there being a curly bit on the other side but then I didn't really have to do anything with the brakes, I just had to replace the two main lines to get the suspension and brakes working again.  Since you've got suspension, as you say, it must be something like the pipe from the caliper, or a union... you'll sort it, you always do.

[MT606]

throttle twist grip body,  do you mount the metal proud or flush with the steering tube? and grip wise flush or slightly proud of the twist bar? am making a custom handlebar set for my c90 (using the same grips and throttle body as you have on TPA)

 

[Zelandeth]

19 minutes ago, MT606 said:

throttle twist grip body,  do you mount the metal proud or flush with the steering tube? and grip wise flush or slightly proud of the twist bar? am making a custom handlebar set for my c90 (using the same grips and throttle body as you have on TPA)

 

The actual tube of the twist grip is sized slightly larger than the tube of the handlebars so it slips over the bars.  The actual rubber grips are different sizes to account for that - as the one on the throttle size needs a wider diameter hole to slip over the body.

The handlebars are a pretty standard size - 7/8" if I remember rightly.

I'll get some clearer photos when I fit the new throttle cable.

 

[MT606]

aye, I know the rubber grips are slightly different sizes but I meant with regards to the bar ends like in the photos.