Project The Old Beige BX Progress Thread: 17th Feb 2021 - FIN.

[barrett]

I'd suggest ordering some from chevronics, but last time I tried to buy something from them they'd sold out months previously and never updated their website, hence a refund and no parts. Also I'm pretty sure Rob Moss is a UKIPer so probably best avoided if at all possible

[strangeangel]

14 minutes ago, barrett said:

I'd suggest ordering some from chevronics, but last time I tried to buy something from them they'd sold out months previously and never updated their website, hence a refund and no parts. Also I'm pretty sure Rob Moss is a UKIPer so probably best avoided if at all possible

 

I see. The ones on my car came from Chevronics... I'll order some from them, I think.

[strangeangel]

And AEP still haven't bothered to reply to my email - top customer service, that, lads - well done.

 

0/10 WOULD NOT USE AGAIN UNLESS DESPERATE.

[strangeangel]

So... last week djimbob and I finally found time and braved the cold to cast an eye over the old beige. I've had a dizzy cap in the garage for months to replace the knackered one on the car. Our mission was to fit that, measure up for a new set of HT leads and find the model number on the carb so that I could order a repair kit.

 

The bad news is that the car doesn't like being kept outside - the door seals are as bad as the ones on my car and consequently we found it full of water and smelling pretty rank. djimbob did sterling work cleaning the mould off everything and baling out the footwells... we'll be keeping a tarp over it after this.

 

 

The better news was that it started - and idled! - with the new dizzy cap on. If you cast your mind back to the earlier pages of this thread idling was never its strong suit. Well, now it does... a bit rough, but idling nevertheless. More bad news followed, though, by dent of the fact that the misfire is still there higher up the rev range. No matter... onwards and upwards. I measured the leads and scored a NOS set of BOSCH ones off eBay. The old ones are very hard and cracked, and are possibly original. The little metal tag on the carb betrayed the model:

 

 

and from that it was easy to order up a repair kit from Germany. I'm pretty sure we talked about replacing the plugs (@KruJoe?) but never did, so I ordered a set of those too.

 

Full disclosure: when Dan StillOrange bestowed keeperhood of the car upon me, he also bunged me the remaining £80 in the car's kitty for buying precious things. The gallon of fuel was on me, but I have spent:

- £25.22 on a carb repair kit

- £12.00 on the new HT leads

- £4 on a set of new spark plugs

which leaves £38.78 in the pot. Just so you know.

 

EDIT: £4 for bogus plugs refunded  I bought another set from GSF - £13.07

So now there's £29.71 left.

 

Everything but the plugs have arrived, and it is hoped that these will turn up in time for us to fit all of the above on one of my days off next week. In an ideal world this would result in bye bye misfire, and if we're that lucky, then we'll take it to djimbob's tame MOT tester and see how it goes.

 

[barrett]

Great to see some progress on this. Hopefully the misfire is easily cured. In the long run I think I might have three out of four door rubbers (used but intact) which I'd happily donate if I can find them again

[dollywobbler]

Aye, door rubbers are a pain in the arse. The rears can manage to leak water into the front footwells. Good to see this one is still on the road to recovery.

[strangeangel]

I'm determined to keep the momentum going on this, but it seems that there's a bit of inclement weather doing the rounds, or something. On the plus side, the car's pile of Precious Things have arrived, so we're ready to have at it again once it stops blowing a bastard gale:

 

 

I remembered on one of the last times we met up at Castle_Cleland we discovered a split steering rack gaiter. Those ones are from my car's spares stash, hopefully they're going to be the same... you never know!

 

[strangeangel]

So, today @djimbob and I did have at it again.

 

First off, new spark plugs. What are the gaps? Fuck knows, and the interweb reveals nothing remotely useful, so we text the ever-obliging @Cleon-Fonte (who is busy elsewhere with his own problems). Much later, we discover the not one, but two HBOLs in the boot, along with the jack and about 11 hubcaps...

 

We have great difficulty getting the plugs out of the head, because our plug spanners are either too short to reach the hex bit of the plug, or are the length of the Iraqi Supergun and thus impossible to deploy thanks to the orientation of the suitcase engine. After some thought, Jim goes to the garage, and returns with a big fuck off reciprocating saw...

 

 

With great precision*, he lobs one of the plug spanners in half, beats one end flat with his best hammer and proceeds to drill a hole through the flat end. Sorted! We remove the plugs, and replace them with the new ones, after gapping them and attaching the big extension things that allow them to sit so low in the head. The old ones, while very sooty, don't look that bad. On to the HT leads. The set of leads - so carefully identified by number as being the the correct set - bear no resemblance to the ones on the car. Outstanding. The rubber boot things on the dizzy cap ends are completely different, and we have to swap these over to make the new ones fit. The coil lead supplied was about 3" long, with the wrong plug on both ends, so we'll have to buy another one to replace that with.

 

All this done - and a ropey looking low tension connector to the coil replaced - we fired her up. It started quickly, and idled quite well, if a bit fast. Once warmed up, we tried revving it and, to our dismay, the misfiring is still present. Mucho coughing and farting. Bastard.

 

Much as I enjoy the man's programmes, I didn't feel like rebuilding the carb Keith Floyd-style on a trestle table in Jim's yard (although by this time, a large glass of red might well have been welcomed). So, off it came and into the boot of the BX it went. It's on the bench in my garage at the moment, with all the screw heads soaking in penetrating fluid in anticipation of my attacking it, hopefully next week.

 

I really hope rebuilding the old Solex cures the problem, because we're all out of ideas if it doesn't.

 

 

 

[Dave_Q]

I hear @Cleon-Fonte has got loads of old Solexs now, one of them will surely fit ?

Cause the French were always quite good at making things interchangable.

Right?

[vulgalour]

If your misfire is a lack of fuel rather than a lack of spark could it be a sticky carb component or a weak fuel pump diaphragm?  Perhaps both.

[strangeangel]

21 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

If your misfire is a lack of fuel rather than a lack of spark could it be a sticky carb component or a weak fuel pump diaphragm?  Perhaps both.

 

The pump was something we spent a lot of time on when it was at @KruJoe's place, and it seems to deliver plenty of the good stuff up to that point. I have bought a rebuild kit for the carb, and that's the next action. If that doesn't work, then we'll be throwing the floor open to anyone with ideas!

 

[vulgalour]

Could be a worn and/or sticking needle then at that.  Or something else entirely, because old cars.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Sorry I couldn't make it over today, I was dishing out abuse to spark plug spanners with you in spirit. The whole plug lead saga sounds like a fucking nightmare.

Hopefully a carb rebuild sorts things, considering the terrible reputation with which old Solexes suffer I've found that you can usually swap out anything that could potentially cause trouble and parts availability for these BX carbs appears to be good. High idle does sound like it's out of adjustment which won't be helping.

 

3 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

I hear @Cleon-Fonte has got loads of old Solexs now, one of them will surely fit ?

Cause the French were always quite good at making things interchangable.

Right?

 

All we need to do to instantly solve our running issues is swap this BX for a 1970s small Renault, then we'd have a lifetime supply of new carbs (along with a lifetime supply of ferric oxide, probably). Amazingly the French managed to make them relatively non-interchangeable even with an identical engine, much as I'd love the BX to serve as a dumping ground for my excess Solexes.

If only we were in Bordeaux and could pop to the Solex shop in town to get it sorted.

 

 

 

[strangeangel]

It'll be a while before I get to fit it to the car, but I have time on my hands so the carb got rebuilt today

 

 

 

This little diaphagm thing was the worst bit I found, see the daylight through it?

 

 

This was also shot, but there was no replacement in the kit:

 

 

I improvised with three little O-rings crushed together. Not perfect, but better than what we had.

 

 

 

All done!

 

 

Let's hope it does the job!

 

[strangeangel]

Obviously there's nothing happening with our little beige friend because lockdown, but @richykitchy has been able to tell from this:

 

 

that our 14RE is the fourth oldest known surviving BX in the UK, and when it achieves an MOT (see what I did there?) it'll be the third oldest roadworthy one. Not bad.

 

Can't wait to see if the newly-rebuilt carb solves the misfire!

 

[vulgalour]

You mentioned the door seals are letting water in.  To do all four you'll want 16 metres of door seal.  Front door are about 3.5-4 metres.  You can make new seals by using this stuff and cutting a 45 degree angle join at the top of the B pillar for both front and rear seals: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Car-Rubber-door-seal-trim-Mini-MG-VW-Ford-Toyota-Universal-fit-bonnet/333131017198

If water gets in after that, check the drain holes in the doors.  Also check the moisture membranes behind the door cards are still stuck down, particularly on the back doors it comes unstuck and then rain gets past the rear door card and straight into the car, it fills up pretty quickly through this route too!  Other water ingress can be the windscreen surround, Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure can fix this if it's a minor enough leak.  It also comes in through the bulkhead where it joins the upright that the scuttle seal goes on, this sometimes needs welding, sometimes just needs resealing.  Strongly recommend removing the carpets if you haven't already, that way you can see when the leak is cured, the carpets and the underlay are extremely good at hiding the extent of a leak until the car is quite full of water.  Water can also get in on the A pillar to inner arch seam, carpets and arch liners out to inspect this one, there should be telltale rust lines if this area is leaking, sometimes a blob of sealant is enough, usually a little bit of welding is required.

 

Nice work on the carburettor.  Fingers crossed that fixes the misfire!

[Talbot]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:29 PM, strangeangel said:

We have great difficulty getting the plugs out of the head, because our plug spanners are either too short to reach the hex bit of the plug, or are the length of the Iraqi Supergun and thus impossible to deploy thanks to the orientation of the suitcase engine.

IIRC there should be a spark-plug tool supplied with the car.  Just about every suitcase engine'd car I've seen has one.  If yours is missing, that's what the two random clips under the bonnet are supposed to be holding.

It's pretty basic, as it's just a pressed tubular socket with a handle welded in to it, but it is of course exactly the correct length.

[strangeangel]

29 minutes ago, Talbot said:

It's pretty basic, as it's just a pressed tubular socket with a handle welded in to it, but it is of course exactly the correct length.

 

 

I know the sort of thing you mean, but I don't recall seeing one... which is not the same as saying it's not there, I know!

 

[Talbot]

I can only find a picture of a samba with one online. 

I'm absolutely sure I've seen the same in a BX engine bay with a suitcase engine, Just can't recall where.  Are there two clips with nothing in them anywhere?  if so, that's where it should be.

[Talbot]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:29 PM, strangeangel said:

All this done - and a ropey looking low tension connector to the coil replaced - we fired her up. It started quickly, and idled quite well, if a bit fast. Once warmed up, we tried revving it and, to our dismay, the misfiring is still present. Mucho coughing and farting. Bastard.

Is it a regular misfire, or just a general coughing and farting?  If it's not a regular misfire in time with the engine revs then it's not ignition.

Nasty little trick to see if it's running rich or lean when misfiring.. Cover half the carburettor intake with your hand, then rev the engine.  If the misfire is worse then it was running rich.  If the misfire is better, then it's running lean (and likely something is blocked)

You can do the same (although inverted) by disconnecting the vacuum pipe to the brake servo.  If it now misfires worse, then it was lean.  If the misfire is better then it's rich.

Crude, but might point you in the right direction.

[strangeangel]

49 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Is it a regular misfire, or just a general coughing and farting?  If it's not a regular misfire in time with the engine revs then it's not ignition.

Nasty little trick to see if it's running rich or lean when misfiring.. Cover half the carburettor intake with your hand, then rev the engine.  If the misfire is worse then it was running rich.  If the misfire is better, then it's running lean (and likely something is blocked)

 

 

No, it's not regular, so we'll concentrate on looking at fuelling from now on. Unfortunately, we won't be getting anything done until after lockdown, as the carb is here and the car is at djimbob's place. There were a couple of obviously knackered parts that got replaced, so fingers crossed one of those was causing it. If not, then we'll definitely try your trick. Cheers for that, ideas were something we were running short on.

 

[beko1987]

Fabulous!

One day if it ever finds itself wanting to attend the citroen show in Great Horwood or similar I'd love to book a few days off work and give it a proper, almost life saving clean!

Is it still filling with water? Would finding and fundraising a decent used but better set of door seals? Or are the doors just bent?

[strangeangel]

9 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

Is it still filling with water? Would finding and fundraising a decent used but better set of door seals? Or are the doors just bent?

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's the door seals - I have the same problem with the blue estate... I think @barrett said he might have some door seals we could have for it. It is outside now, but since we discovered that the water was pissing in we chucked a tarp over it.

 

There's still a few quid in the pot, but I think it'd be best to get the car through an MOT & there are a couple of other possible issues standing in the way of that. There's a steering rack gaiter that needs replacing, and the long-standing problem with the windscreen which, if we can't persuade a tester to pass and advise, will need replacing. I'm hoping to get away with the former; mine has similar damage and I've just got away with an advisory on it. I think we'll take it to my tester, they look after a lot of old Citroens and have been very good with EPN.

 

[richykitchy]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:29 PM, Talbot said:

You can do the same (although inverted) by disconnecting the vacuum pipe to the brake servo...

 

What brake servo? ?

[richykitchy]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:09 PM, strangeangel said:

 

I'm pretty sure it's the door seals - I have the same problem with the blue estate... I think @barrett said he might have some door seals we could have for it. It is outside now, but since we discovered that the water was pissing in we chucked a tarp over it.

 

There's still a few quid in the pot, but I think it'd be best to get the car through an MOT & there are a couple of other possible issues standing in the way of that. There's a steering rack gaiter that needs replacing, and the long-standing problem with the windscreen which, if we can't persuade a tester to pass and advise, will need replacing. I'm hoping to get away with the former; mine has similar damage and I've just got away with an advisory on it. I think we'll take it to my tester, they look after a lot of old Citroens and have been very good with EPN.

 

When you change the rack gaitor, get one of the proper ones, not the universal ones. It'll eat the latter.

 

MOOG ones are meant to be good.

[strangeangel]

So finally the car got re-united with its freshly rebuilt carburettor. It rewarded us for this kindness by refusing to run at all. We suspected lack of fuel, chucked some in and tried again... nothing. Then I noticed that the fuel filter had a crack in it. One trip to the motor factors in @djimbob's trusty Lexus scored us a couple of new ones. It fired up and settled to a slightly lumpy tickover, and - after a while on the choke - revved cleanly! Had we fixed it?

 

No. After being left running for a little while longer, the misfire came back with a vengeance. Bollocks.

 

We then wondered if the coil was breaking down under use? This seemed a reasonable theory given that the Ducellier coil was one of the few things not replaced in the ignition system. Out came the meter and the HBOL; resistance was supposed to be 0.8 Ohms on the primary wiring and 6K Ohms on the secondary. Secondary was bang on, but primary was way outside the 5% +/- tolerance at 2.3 Ohms. The tutorials I read said that the coil is toast if even a little out of tolerance on either measurement, so shopping time it is. Couldn't find anything with the Ducellier part number. but got a match on the Bosch coil also fitted to these cars - ordered.

 

Obviously fitting that is the next job, but then the ideas cupboard is bare again... my next thought is to check out the timing? Any other suggestions (aside from JUST FUCKIN SCRAP IT M8, obviously) will be gratefully received.

 

Accounts time:

- carried forward = £29.71

- 10l fuel = £10.60

- 2 x fuel filters = £5

- coil = £14.69

- balance = 0.58p in the red.

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:28 PM, strangeangel said:

Obviously there's nothing happening with our little beige friend because lockdown, but @richykitchy has been able to tell from this:

 

that our 14RE is the fourth oldest known surviving BX in the UK, and when it achieves an MOT (see what I did there?) it'll be the third oldest roadworthy one. ....

Car was built 18th November 1983. But you already knew that.....

[barrett]

Yes. Door rubbers. Will try and hunt them down but I fear they are hidden in the deepest corners of the garage with my own broken BX and possibly not accessible. They have this car's name on, though, when they eventually do come to light

[strangeangel]

The new coil arrived, and to no-one's great surprise it hasn't solved the misfiring. So it goes, but we now have a bigger problem, as djimbob is having to move house at fairly short notice. I have managed to find another berth for the Beigeness, in nearby Wakefield, but it's undriveable as is, and I have no means of getting it there.

 

In a nutshell, we need either some kind soul to move it from Huddersfield to Wakey, or the loan of a trailer (we will have access to a vehicle equipped with a tow hitch), or donations towards the hire of same. Then, subject to local lockdowns, I'd like to have a working party with a bit wider participation than the two of us, not least because we;ve run out of ideas! The problem might be something really trivial that just needs a fresh pair of eyes.

 

So - friends, co-owners and interested passers-by - the Beige BX needs your help... pretty soon, by the looks of things!

 

[Fumbler]

Seeing this working (somewhat) on a trailer at Chumley makes me want to contribute in some form to its revival. If I'm able to I'd be more than happy to wire some monies your way!