Pistonheads Logbook police

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 Hi, Building a car from a shell is OK if the identity remains the one it had, if it's given the identity of a different car then it's ringing and that's illegal.

 

 Colin

 

 

 

If the shell is new? That means a Heritage shelled Mini or MGB - where most of the car is new/reconditioned anyway - is thus illegal.

 

What if the secondhand shell has no I.D?

[colnerov]

 Hi, the police do have a dedicated unit dealing with vehicle identity and theft, you hear about the high value cars because it makes people aware of the problem. They won't usually go for the vendor on ebay because generally the logbook is stated as sold as memorabilia. But when it's reported they put a marker on the reg number and then when someone down the line goes to tax it they then call it in for inspection, so the new owner can end up losing the car.

 

 Colin

[colnerov]

If the shell is new? That means a Heritage shelled Mini or MGB - where most of the car is new/reconditioned anyway - is thus illegal.

 

What if the secondhand shell has no I.D?

 

 Hi, If the vehicle is built up from a new shell from the original manufacturer that's OK, but not from a secondhand shell unless it's original identity is used, if it has no identity then it has to go for an IVA  AFAIK. Which would probably end up with a 'Q' plate because it's a vehicle assembled from parts.

 

 Colin

[The Old Bloke Next Door]

Having my annual paper work, acquired trinkets and other junk I haven't used for years X'mas clear out.

 

Amongst the paper work is an old beige log book for a Karrier Bantam tipper, reg no 135 FVP. I owned 2 of these in the early 70's. one petrol one diesel.

 

Off to check Ebay memorabilia for an idea on value.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

The whole reshelling thing is a fine line.

What if I keep the original shell, but one year I replace the roof. Then the rear 3/4. Then maybe a year down the line I weld in new floors. Next year the bulkhead gets replaced.

 

At what point does it stop being the original shell, and why is it somehow worse just replacing the whole thing in one go?

 

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

[chaseracer]

^ Dollywobbler will be along presently to offer a view on this! 

[Cavcraft]

The whole reshelling thing is a fine line.

What if I keep the original shell, but one year I replace the roof. Then the rear 3/4. Then maybe a year down the line I weld in new floors. Next year the bulkhead gets replaced.

 

At what point does it stop being the original shell, and why is it somehow worse just replacing the whole thing in one go?

 

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

Probably because (I assume) you're not talking about using the shell of a 1.3 Popular Plus and the identity of a Mexico.

[Partridge]

Here's a thought: get a minted RS Mexico on wanky alloys and turn it into a 1.3 Popular Plus with rusty steel wheels and sills made of coke cans...Mmmmmm...

[AMC Rebel]

 Secondly, the SOGA has forced the dodgy scum dealers to operate from dog guarded bomb sites, selling rubbish, getting wound up but setting up again the following week with a new 'director' and a different name.

 

 

The Sale Of Goods Act did what now?

 

The 1893 one or the 1979 one?

[garbaldy]

' they won't all be used for ringing '

 

then goes on to describe ringing a vehicle ...

 

jesus wept...

No I was giving an insight on why people might consider it after the balache with the dvla on registering mine.

[BavarianRetro]

A couple of years ago, I broke what was probably the rustiest 1990 325i Sport I've ever seen. What was left of the shell was swept up.

 

A year or so later, I acquired a pretty much stripped 1990 316i shell. I stripped it to a completely bare shell, went to the dealer with the V5 of the Sport and ordered a new scuttle panel with the VIN numbers stamped in. I cut the VIN numbers out of the other shell, sent away the V5 saying it had been scrapped, and sold the shell, V5 for the Sport and scuttle panel.

 

I told the chap who bought them all of the above.

 

I'm certain I did nothing illegal. I'm happy I did nothing wrong.

 

Anyone disagree?

[Junkman]

In 1993 I bought the worst car I ever bought (condition wise) in Little Silver, Noo Joisey.

It happened to be one of 429 ever built 1961 Imperial convertibles. The bottom foot of the car had succumbed to nature, but basically all convertible specific bits were present and salvagable.

A year later, I bought one of 1,007 ever built 1961 Imperial Crown 2-door Southamptons in the Arid Zone, which had absolutely pristine metal, but sadly also inside.

Only the seat frames were there, anything fabric or foam had succumbed to the sun.

 

Back in Belgium, where I lived at the time, I did pretty much what the factory did when they made a convertible, i.e. riveted the strengthening brace to the Southampton chassis frame,

cut the roof off the body and fitted it with all the convertible specific bits from the convertible, then went on to install a fresh interior made from a lot of the original parts, factory original

upholstery materials and original grain leather of the correct colour for my particular convertible according to the build plate.

 

I unriveted the build plates from the bulkheads and installed the one from the convertible on my mock convertible, also the serial plate from the driver's door jamb, back then the only ID

those cars had. Then I had it sprayed in the correct colour according to the build plate. I installed a random 413 and Torqueflite I had lying around, I guess from a New Yorker.

I had a plethora of small bits and pieces and all the rubbers and weatherstrips sent from the Colonies, the lot. Once the dust had settled I had sunk almost 2,000,000 (Two Million)

Belgian Francs into the project, which translates to about 50k Euros - but in 1995 money! At the time, the car was maybe worth half of that, but I'm such a ringer, aren't I?

 

Do you know why I know the car was only worth half of what I spent on it?

Because it went to Sweden for exactly that amount when I had to sell it together with all my other Imperials in 1998, because of that bitch!

Mind you, the Swedish buyer was from the onset well informed about what I had done and he knows exactly what he has.

And yes, he still has it and we still have contact occasionally, in fact, I received a Christmas card from him today.

 

Wanna read about my MK1 Escort RS 2000 story, or do you have a life?

[trigger]

Man steals old Land Rover, man buys "ringing kit" of ebay for £1000, man then pop rivets new vin to stolen Land Rover and now it's got a new legal identity... Thats how i see it anyway.

[The Old Bloke Next Door]

Or another man/woman buys an older Land Rover V5 from somewhere, then uses the original self taper's to attach the the vin plate to the bulkhead.

 

Bought my first Landy in 1971, a 1950 series I 80 inch, owned numerous series ever since. Currently I have a 1971 109 on the road, a 109 LHD Santana diesel Safari on-going project, an 88 1975 diesel Swb project, and a  1972 109 diesel  hard top donor.

 

I'll write a guide on how to spot a ringed series over the holiday period.

 

My 88 inch series 3 chassis after some welding and fettling.

 

[Junkman]

You're such an OLLI.

[The Old Bloke Next Door]

Yes, a Landy rivet counter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Junkman]

I'm such a closet OLLI.

Once I come out, please grant me the privilege to call on your experience.

[The Old Bloke Next Door]

No problem, just ask. Some pics of the chassis during fettling.

 

 

 

 

[sierraman]

When you look at some restorations, that little is left of the original car it ought by letter if the law to constitute a Q plate

[New POD]

They won't all be used for ringing though,

I'm pretty sure ringing is the phrase used for stolen cars,

 

 

I'm pretty sure 50%  will be used to legitimise stolen cars, 45% will be used to change the model and/or age to dupe someone into buying something not genuine, and 5% will be used to build a new car from scratch and avoid registration difficulties.

 

Winds me up big time. It's bent and there's no excusing it and at some point in the future someone's going to buy a 'genuine' car that's anything but. Really does piss me off.

 

It would wind me up if I'd spent 3 years restoring an RS 2000 and I never saw it again,

It would wind me up if I saved all my spare cash for three years, to buy an RS2000, and I ended up buying a 1.1 Pop with ebay parts fitted to make it look like an RS2000, or I bought a genuine RS2000 which was actually stolen.

It would wind me up if someone sold me a bitsa using a new shell and bits they'd 'acquired' which was not registered in the correct way.

 

In my opinion it should be illegal to sell a V5 and a set of chassis numbers, and I think I may have used crime stoppers on line to report a couple of adverts myself.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

When you look at some restorations, that little is left of the original car it ought by letter if the law to constitute a Q plate

Ah, the Q Plate the car thieve's friend.

Once you've created your Q Plate and got a log book, just swap that onto another random stolen example of your chosen car then start again.

These days it must be even easier to create enough receipts and relevant paperwork ,with out recourse to Tippex and typewriters and your local copy shop.

Of course the end user of the Q Plated car will eventually find a nice ID on eBay .

 

My favourite , was a bloke I knew in the 90's who Q plated four brand new Fronteras, that were knicked straight out of Luton. His props were an Astra estate and 4 Land Rover wheels- the log books said Vauxhall 4x4 Estate. He even took the Astra with the Land Rover wheels wedged into the arches, to Northampton Police HQ, on a trailer for a random check once. i know this because he rented the unit next to me. His everyday car was a fully stickered up Texaco 3 door Cossie ( on a Q) and his Mrs drove a Q plate Ferarri Mondial. Last I heard he'd moved to the South Coast and become a drug dealer- easier money, less hard work apparently .

[sierraman]

You hardly ever see Q plates these days though?

[Tamworthbay]

I'm pretty sure 50%  will be used to legitimise stolen cars, 45% will be used to change the model and/or age to dupe someone into buying something not genuine, and 5% will be used to build a new car from scratch and avoid registration difficulties.

 

 

 

It would wind me up if I'd spent 3 years restoring an RS 2000 and I never saw it again,

It would wind me up if I saved all my spare cash for three years, to buy an RS2000, and I ended up buying a 1.1 Pop with ebay parts fitted to make it look like an RS2000, or I bought a genuine RS2000 which was actually stolen.

It would wind me up if someone sold me a bitsa using a new shell and bits they'd 'acquired' which was not registered in the correct way.

 

In my opinion it should be illegal to sell a V5 and a set of chassis numbers, and I think I may have used crime stoppers on line to report a couple of adverts myself.

It is illegal to sell V5s, they usually get around that by showing a pile of rust and claiming its 'for restoration'. Almost every week another turns up on the mini forum that is a perfectly nice 80s car that is sat on 60s/early 70s plates to get free tax. The number of mk1 shells that have been converted to internal hinges, winding windows, side repeaters and clocks in front of the driver is amazing........ if you were thick enough to believe that's what happened. But the ones it catches are the poor beggars who always wanted a mini and found a nice one in their price range but didn't have degree in what mk of mini had what features. Quite often it puts them off old cars for good.

[Tamworthbay]

You hardly ever see Q plates these days though?

SVA/ IVA mashed the kit car market, I built one before and one after, wouldn't build another. The regs are vollocks and you end up building a stupid noddy car to get all the radiuses right even though you have seen what you want in a mainstream car but can't use it as it's only type approved for that car.

[sierraman]

I can see a bit of both sides with this, on one hand it's wrong to be misleading someone about what they are buying but in the other hand, some restorations you see have been so comprehensive that there's nothing original left, so in a way it might just as well have been a 1.3 turned into a RS2000.

[Pillock]

I too can sum up half a dozen pages of this thread with "it can be used for good, or evil".

 

Perhaps we just need to sort out the people using V5s and vin plates to ring stolen cars. After all, you can legally buy paint (used to respray a stolen car) and a trailer (used to transport a stolen car) because both of those have legal uses.

 

As I see it, you could legally reshell a car you own with an identity you own, and kittens remain alive. The good news is the world keeps an interesting car as opposed to having to scrap it because you'd go to prison for crimes against VIN plates.

[castros_bro]

Dere Sirs, Modoms,  Blossoms,

 

I don't give a shit either way,  none of this based on quoted facts so is all just pointless waffle so would all of you bugger off to Piston heads where this type of shit belongs. 

 

Here is the first sign of spring.

 

[Bobthebeard]

Dere Sirs, Modoms,  Blossoms,

 

I don't give a shit either way,  none of this based on quoted facts so is all just pointless waffle so would all of you bugger off to Piston heads where this type of shit belongs. 

 

Here is the first sign of spring.

 

2016blossom.jpg

Hmmmmm..

The " I don't give a shit" thing doesn't sit well with me TBH. Had some 'Friends' around for a meal recently. They are both over 70 and have massive pensions. They don't give a shit about anyone. We fell out.

They blame everything on immigrants and stuff that doesn't affect them in any way at all...

Daily Mail.

Annoyed me.

Soz.

As you were.

[castros_bro]

Exactomonty,  take things of context.

 

Hmmmmm..
 I............. Had ........... a........... massive......... shit
 

[chaseracer]

This thread is in danger of heading for The Craphouse...