Pistonheads Logbook police

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

My own feelings are : have they got fuck all else to do? So someone is flogging a V5 so that you can build an RS2000? And....? So a Lotus 7 kit car was built 18 years ago using the i.d of a Marina.............and....?

 

I find myself utterly unable to give a flying one.

 

Your views folks.

 

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1049731&i=2280

[83C]

Depends. I don't like the idea of flogging a logbook as the ID can be used to hide a stolen motor. Happens a lot with Land Rovers.

 

You could buy that RS2000 V5, buy a heritage shell and build a new one. Or the less scrupulous and more light fingered could just go and nick one, using the new ID to conceal it, maybe even give it a quick paint job to match the new ID. Hey presto, a £15k+ car for a grand or two.

 

Also, if you buy a tax-exempt ID, then get stopped and found to have hidden the true age of the vehicle then the authorities get involved.

[stubeedoo]

But still,what does it have to do with them? It just stinks of curtain twitching busybody losers.

[83C]

I could be wrong but I've got an idea that at least one or two of the posters on that thread have been victims of that sort of crime. Therefore I can see their point and why they do it.

[Six-cylinder]

When the finished RS is sold, it depends how it is described. If I buy a know bitser cheap that is fine, but if I buy a lovely one owner RS2000 and then find I have a 1100 pop with stolen bits bolted on I am going to feel pretty miffed.

[chaseracer]

Depends. I don't like the idea of flogging a logbook as the ID can be used to hide a stolen motor. Happens a lot with Land Rovers.

 

You could buy that RS2000 V5, buy a heritage shell and build a new one. Or the less scrupulous and more light fingered could just go and nick one, using the new ID to conceal it, maybe even give it a quick paint job to match the new ID. Hey presto, a £15k+ car for a grand or two.

 

Also, if you buy a tax-exempt ID, then get stopped and found to have hidden the true age of the vehicle then the authorities get involved.

 

Well said.

[twosmoke300]

Its wrong and illegal but its not like murdering someone 

 

 

Thread closed 

 

 

Next!

[Dirk Diggler]

I hate to see Irish ones for sale; because it's guaranteed somebody in the UK will have a car stolen to suit the ID and the car will be imported to here

 

Anything 30 years old is tax exempt on a rolling basis and pre January 1st 1980 is MOT exempt; I wouldn't like to tell you how many td5 discoverys are rolling around with a series 3 reg number on; there's no enforcement whatsoever here; you'd see a series3 book on donedeal for a grand

[Jim Bell]

Verdict.

[surprisingskoda]

It's hardly the verdict when you have three people each side and one undecided.

 

It's illegal for a reason, however it seems this thread was more about bashing another car forum than actually having a grown up discussion about a real issue that affects people interested in the same thing as us.

[sierraman]

I'd be inclined to keep my nose out. Running about telling tales on people is likely to result in a black eye at the very least. It's in some people's nature though to go round doing this.

[AMC Rebel]

This sort of thing comes up on other forums too - like rods n sods.

 

I'm afraid I'm in the "curtain twitching loser" camp on this.  I don't like seeing people getting away with stuff, and the "it's not murder" line doesn't wash with me either.  

With that said, I know I probably have an over-developed sense of right and wrong - for which I can probably blame my parents, I guess.

 

On the whole we do seem very tolerant of illegal activity as a nation - I remember watching a TV programme with an Aussie mate - this woman was shoplifting stuff and then selling it at a market.  People were happy to buy brand new clothes with all the store tags on with no questions asked as long as it was cheap enough - my mate reckoned Aussies would be asking a few more questions - I dunno.

 

I go to other countries and see stuff lying around that would be stolen in five minutes if it was left unattended here.

[AMC Rebel]

As far as the V5 Police on P/H - good luck to them, they are doing far less harm than the V5 ringers, and since neither the cops nor ebay seem to give a flip, I see it as doing us all a favour.

 

But then I've never been tempted to ring a motor.

[Tamworthbay]

In my experience the people who say 'what's it got to do with anyone?' Are the very ones who make the most noise when it's their car that gets stolen or they are wronged in some way.

[Jim Bell]

It's hardly the verdict when you have three people each side and one undecided.

 

It's illegal for a reason, however it seems this thread was more about bashing another car forum than actually having a grown up discussion about a real issue that affects people interested in the same thing as us.

Conceded.

[garbaldy]

They won't all be used for ringing though,

I'm pretty sure ringing is the phrase used for stolen cars,

I have three left hand drive scrotes and the doovla caused a right balache while registering one of them, the easier option that some may take is to buy a v5 and I can understand that way of thinking.

[Cavcraft]

Winds me up big time. It's bent and there's no excusing it and at some point in the future someone's going to buy a 'genuine' car that's anything but. Really does piss me off.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Meanwhile, in real-life news, there are 12 dead, 48 injured and some murdering numbnuts is on the run, following the Berlin tragedy.

Can't threads titled 'Are all banger racers twats?' and 'Does selling a V5 liken you to Donald Trumped?' be saved for the forums full of Jeremy Kyle DNA? Personally, I like the chilled-out feel of this place, and threads like this are obviously going to incite arguments and black eyes.

Merrrrry Christmas. I hope Mr Kipling/ the alcoholic vagrant brings peace and love.

[stubeedoo]

^what this man said.^

[sierraman]

Meanwhile, in real-life news, there are 12 dead, 48 injured and some murdering numbnuts is on the run, following the Berlin tragedy.

Can't threads titled 'Are all banger racers twats?' and 'Does selling a V5 liken you to Donald Trumped?' be saved for the forums full of Jeremy Kyle DNA? Personally, I like the chilled-out feel of this place, and threads like this are obviously going to incite arguments and black eyes.

Merrrrry Christmas. I hope Mr Kipling/ the alcoholic vagrant brings peace and love.

I wasn't suggesting I'd be giving anyone a black eye. I'm just saying the folks likely to be doing car ringing are likely to be if that persuasion. Have you any proof they are ringing cars? I'd have thought eBay would be looking into it. I just don't think going off saying seller xxxx is ringing cars is the right thing to be doing though.

[AMC Rebel]

Agree with keeping it chilled - but no-one actually said people selling V5Cs were Donald Trump.

 

I do idly wonder if other countries eBay or similar is doing a trade in car ID docs? (French Cartes Gris maybe?)

 

As for having no proof of ringing - of course that's true, but if people are actually paying these big numbers for V5s it's either -

 

1.To give an ID to legitimise a stolen car, or

 

2.To give an ID to bitsa, so it can appear original

 

In either case, they will need to get the money they paid back, and the only ways of doing that are fraudulent.

 

The buyers surely aren't eccentric millionaires wanting a framed RS1600 V5 to hang on the wall.

 

As for eBay - again I have no proof, but I suspect they are happy to take the auction fees and use their normal disclaimer that they are just a clearing house. I very, very much doubt they have anyone investigating it at all.

[Junkman]

What puzzles me is that people even bother with ringing Minis, OLLIs and RS 2000s.

Risking "The Law" for what? 5k? Or even to merely save 250 quid a year?

 

When earlier this year a 190SL V5C was flogged on t'bay, I was seriously tempted.

An instant 120k profit sounds much more worthwhile for starting my criminal career.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

It's hardly the verdict when you have three people each side and one undecided.

 

It's illegal for a reason, however it seems this thread was more about bashing another car forum than actually having a grown up discussion about a real issue that affects people interested in the same thing as us.

 

 

Did you ever get those VIN's?

[AMC Rebel]

Did you ever get those VIN's?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

My view on it all:

 

> Building an RS1600 from a V5. Tot up the cost of doing it - a V5 alone is 10 grand and a BDA is about that, a shell will be that again. These cars have too are to ring really - I would imagine the AVO scene is too close knit. But you want to build one from scratch without nicking it? Good luck to you. It's another RS1600 back in circulation and I'm all for it. Ditto HS Chevettes and stuff. Anyone who buys such a car will know that it will have a story behind it - they all do. unless you buy one with a cast iron provenance. A very grey area.

I built a Cooper S once from an 850 shell and a V5, and very nice it was once built.

 

> Ringing stolen Minis and Land Rovers - it's illegal and just wrong. Very black and white.

 

> Kit cars using the ID of a donor car. Seriously, so what? 

 

 

Whilst I applaud the PHLP for bringing the second thing to light, targeting owners of legitimate kit cars is just not on. Nobody is being fooled or conned and it's obvious that the PHLP are just bored.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Agree with keeping it chilled - but no-one actually said people selling V5Cs were Donald Trump.

 

I do idly wonder if other countries eBay or similar is doing a trade in car ID docs? (French Cartes Gris maybe?)

 

As for having no proof of ringing - of course that's true, but if people are actually paying these big numbers for V5s it's either -

 

1.To give an ID to legitimise a stolen car, or

 

2.To give an ID to bitsa, so it can appear original

 

In either case, they will need to get the money they paid back, and the only ways of doing that are fraudulent.

 

The buyers surely aren't eccentric millionaires wanting a framed RS1600 V5 to hang on the wall.

 

As for eBay - again I have no proof, but I suspect they are happy to take the auction fees and use their normal disclaimer that they are just a clearing house. I very, very much doubt they have anyone investigating it at all.

 

 

You forgot No.3 - with a suitable V5, a freshly built competition car can be given FIA papers. That's why V5's for RS1600's, Cooper S's, 8 Gordinis and so on are so valuable. Lotus Cortina V5 - ten grand please. Either that or your £100'000 freshly built racer isn't and the FIA don't give a shit that you started off with Albert Jockstrap's one owner 1200 misery.

[AMC Rebel]

Oh yes, I meant to say, fully agree about the kit car thing - that is just silly.  

 

They may as well (and there is a PH thread for this, or was) try to take down listings for V6 Corsas with "still a 1.2 on the logbook".  

 

My view on those and on the kit cars is - if you don't like it, don't buy it - at least the seller is giving you the straight story.

[colnerov]

I'm pretty sure ringing is the phrase used for stolen cars,

.

 

 Hi, 'Ringing' comes from the horse and dog racing world, meaning to give an animal or car a false identity. Usually for nefarious reasons.

 

 Colin

[chaseracer]

I built a Cooper S once from an 850 shell and a V5, and very nice it was once built.

 

No doubt - but it wasn't a Cooper S.  It was a tuned 850 with moody paperwork.

 

Just like the works rally cars after their third reshell/plate change... 

[AMC Rebel]

You forgot No.3 - with a suitable V5, a freshly built competition car can be given FIA papers. That's why V5's for RS1600's, Cooper S's, 8 Gordinis and so on are so valuable. Lotus Cortina V5 - ten grand please. Either that or your £100'000 freshly built racer isn't and the FIA don't give a shit that you started off with Albert Jockstrap's one owner 1200 misery.

 

Fair enough - that seems a bit odd though - I mean fair enough if we're all going to be allowed to buy and sell v5s at will like VRMs - but even the FIA route seems like fraud by any other name to me.  Maybe the government's at fault for not providing an easier legit route for historic recreations.