Unwanted Stepchild

[Vince70]

I can't really think of any all I can come up with is the MK1 golf but it only outlved the Mk2 by a couple of months and that was only because there wasn't a cabriolet version.

Or I guess the Maestro outlived the early 200 in CKD kit form though.

[Timewaster]

Having sampled a few Escorts, I can report that the 1991 car was bloody awful.

The first face lift helped a bit.

The second face lift about 1995 made a huge difference and made it an almost pleasant drive.

[forddeliveryboy]

No, I don't think anyone knows where the Dyane fitted in. In many ways, it was a replacement for the 2CV, but it seems there was enough demand for Citroen to keep building tin snails. Dyane sold 1.4 million between 1967 and 1983, which is pretty decent.

But they sold it for about twice the price of the 2cv in the UK yet they sold so many. Weird. Maybe to Tom and Barbaras as well as the horsey-racing community.

[r.welfare]

The W210 is such an ugly, horrid heap. What were they thinking?

A build cost of 25% less than the W124, according to Autocar at the time.

[vulgalour]

 

The Mk1 essentially replaced the Beetle and that really is a huge leap.  Admittedly, the Beetle remained in production until about this morning after a run of three thousand years, it was always going to be a tough act to follow.  However, the Mk1 Golf managed it by being just better in every way and was lauded by the motoring press as being rather excellent.  I can't get too excited about them, German things rarely cause me excitement, but I can't deny it was a Good Thing.

 

Then came the Mk2.  It was better, because it had more space, it was safer, there was a larger variety of trim and engine sizes and it was much more practical than the Mk1.  It was, however, rubbish. Dreary and dull, capable and practical and just meh.  Even the Mk3 that followed was more interesting and that was hardly a car to set your pants on fire.

[Arragonis]

As a slight tangent, how many cars have outlived the car that should have replaced them? I'm talking about cars that shared showroom space with their successors, rather than ones that continued in other markets or were sold on to a different manufacturer.

 

We've had the Mini and 2CV so far, I'm struggling to think of any more but there must be some.

The Maestro lasted until 1995 alongside the R8 which also went in 95.

I think.

[adw1977]

As a slight tangent, how many cars have outlived the car that should have replaced them? I'm talking about cars that shared showroom space with their successors, rather than ones that continued in other markets or were sold on to a different manufacturer.

 

Did the Chevette outlive the Mark 1 Astra? Both ended production in 1984 IIRC.

[bub2006]

I thought chevette was predecessor to nova/corsa A. The Astra A was a follow on from the opel kadett which

[scaryoldcortina]

The HA van outlasted them all!

[Louise2cv]

I thought the kadett...C? Was a chevette with a different face. Or visa versa?

 

I was wondering about the chevette/astra crossover this morning while reading this thread.

[bub2006]

I definitely remember my dad having a brown Astra with square headlamps (mk1?!) but it had the lightening badges and said kadett on the arse. I'm most certain chevette was succeeded by the nova.

[danthecapriman]

Having sampled a few Escorts, I can report that the 1991 car was bloody awful.

The first face lift helped a bit.

The second face lift about 1995 made a huge difference and made it an almost pleasant drive.

I had a 90 (new shape) Orion. It was f*****g awful! There was nothing good about it, it had absolutely no redeeming features or positives. It was utter utter shit.

A mate had a later one, S reg I think, which was better. But still shit.

[bub2006]

Kadett D was Astra. Unsure of what was before. My dad had a few opels and nearly all were rusty and dying. Ascona was cavalier, rekord was carlton I think. He had a opel commodore too but don't know if that had a vauxhall counterpart. On that topic all his big vauxhall or opels had colour coded dashboards or big slabs of coffee tables stuck to the dash and velour seats. Either blue, green or red/orange interior

[Timewaster]

Initially the Astra was also available as a Kadett but by the time the Mk2 Cavalier arrived, GM had dropped the Opel versions of it cars from the British market.

Only the Monza and Manta continued to be available as no Vauxhall equivalents existed.

[MarvinsMom]

how long did the HC Viva last for?

 

that i know was on for sale at the same time as the shove-it.

 

personally i would have prefered the Viva over a chevette, especially the run out GLS with velour trim and the 7-dial speedo clock out of the Magnum.

 

and every version of the Golf since the mark 2 has been nothing but unadulterated shit, the mark 1 was brilliant, the mark 2 was pretty good (been the same running gear under a different body) but the mark 3 model onwards are i have found, are fucking horrid.

[forddeliveryboy]

The old Quatrelle must be one of the few all-time greats which spawned another classic in the form of the 5. Even the Clio was a better offering than anything Peugeot had, in my reckoning.

 

 

A build cost of 25% less than the W124, according to Autocar at the time.

 

The MB-fuhrer himself boasted of savings of one third, in a wonderful piece of self-annihalation. A decade later, dealerships were repainting roof panels and cutting out inner wings in a beautifully hidden piece of warranty-care. It didn't stop values falling through the floor, when once a second-hand MB was the gold standard.

 

 

As a slight tangent, how many cars have outlived the car that should have replaced them? I'm talking about cars that shared showroom space with their successors, rather than ones that continued in other markets or were sold on to a different manufacturer.

 

We've had the Mini and 2CV so far, I'm struggling to think of any more but there must be some.

 

Plenty of foreign stuff, where they value practicality and reliability over how recently a car has been launched.

[Richard]

The Viva lasted until 1979. The Kadett went from being Chevette shaped to being Astra shaped. The Nova was slotted in at the bottom of the range, it didn't really have a predecessor.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

As a slight tangent, how many cars have outlived the car that should have replaced them? I'm talking about cars that shared showroom space with their successors, rather than ones that continued in other markets or were sold on to a different manufacturer.

 

We've had the Mini and 2CV so far, I'm struggling to think of any more but there must be some.

[forddeliveryboy]

Thing is, if you'd asked someone from a previous generation, they'd have mentioned Citroën's Light Fifteen/Traction Avant and DS - as in the DS was a joke, compared with what went before. The outcry was so loud the company made a special autoshite edition DS (the ID), without the hydraulic/auto clutch, powered brakes or steering in an attempt to keep the traditionalists in the fold. 

 

Progress is progress, truly good cars aren't the preserve of any one nation, even less a single manufacturer. We have the benefit of hindsight on our side, something the man with a big bank balance/trusted occupation doesn't know about, when having his earnings taken away by the salesman.

[Junkman]

Well, there is this motherless son of a bitch that never had a stepchild.

 

 

It doesn't have one. Nada. Zilch. Rien. Nothing. Nix.

What an impeccably behaved gentleman.

It was born into this World without a predecessor and didn't leave a bastard child.

 

Wonderful.

[forddeliveryboy]

Well, there is this motherless son of a bitch that never had a stepchild.

 

 

It doesn't have one. Nada. Zilch. Rien. Nothing. Nix.

What an impeccably behaved gentleman.

It was born into this World without a predecessor and didn't leave a bastard child.

 

Wonderful.

 

Ah maybe, but it'd already received a heart transplant from the Americas. And becoz its parents were forced into relationships with inferiors, eventually there were totally foreign offspring bearing the family name and none of the DNA. 

 

Conclusion - should have had a bastard child.

[sierraman]

I'd argue that the majority of modern cars have gone this way, although some have started to redeem themselves, others haven't.

 

Renault Clio, I had both an 04 plate mk2 ph2 model and a 59 plate mk3 facelift, the older shape was by far the better car, newest shape Clio is even worse.

 

Vectra>Insignia, Vectra B was dull and bland, Vectra C even worse, Insignia even worse again.

 

Then there are some which continually got worse but have started improving but still not quite back to as good as the original model, I'm thinking Renault Megane here, mk1 was a decent car, mk2 fat arse was awful, mk3 awful and dull and boring but newest shape which is just out looks smart for a modern car IMO.

 

Same with Pug 306, 307, 308 and new model 308, 306s were brilliant and still look fresh today IMO, 307s were ugly pieces of junk, 308 looked like a big nondescript blob, newest 308 again like newest Megane looks decent.

 

Others seem totally hit and miss, Vauxhall Astra, mk1/2/3 were fine, mk4 not a bad car but so drab and lacking in style, mk5 was much better and then went downhill with mk6 and mk7 versions. Same also with Ford Focus, mk1 fine, mk2 not as sharply styled, crap interior, latest model an improvement on mk2. Ford Mondeo, mk1/2 great cars, mk3 (2000-2007 model) not great IMO, mk4 (07 onwards) brilliant to drive, stylish, nice solid interior, good build quality.

 

I'd say all BMWs fall into the category of this topic though. Mercs as well, they seem really cheap inside now and very tacky outside.

The mk3 Mondeo was a considerable improvement over the Mk2. Didn't Rust or go through wishbones at the same rate either.

[Ghosty]

 He had a opel commodore too but don't know if that had a vauxhall counterpart. 

 

Viceroy.

[wuvvum]

Vauxhalls went through a period of not being taken out of production until their grandchildren came on the scene - HC Viva sold alongside the Chevette until the Mk1 Astra came out, then the Chevette continued until the arrival of the Mk2 Astra.

 

As to cars which have outlasted their "replacements", another which has been mentioned already is the Morris Minor.

[dieselassist]

 

The Mk1 essentially replaced the Beetle and that really is a huge leap.  Admittedly, the Beetle remained in production until about this morning after a run of three thousand years, it was always going to be a tough act to follow.  However, the Mk1 Golf managed it by being just better in every way and was lauded by the motoring press as being rather excellent.  I can't get too excited about them, German things rarely cause me excitement, but I can't deny it was a Good Thing.

 

Then came the Mk2.  It was better, because it had more space, it was safer, there was a larger variety of trim and engine sizes and it was much more practical than the Mk1.  It was, however, rubbish. Dreary and dull, capable and practical and just meh.  Even the Mk3 that followed was more interesting and that was hardly a car to set your pants on fire.

...Have to agree with you there; mk2 was a poor replacement for the mk1, but it heralded a new era for vw, the subframe era, n was a more rigid motor; everything vw from 1983 (golf/jetta) to 2003 (mk2 caddy/seat inca tdi) had essentially the same underpinnings- front subframes n struts; rear beam axle; very much improved upon the pervious mk1 golf design where engine n suspension bits were just mounted/bracketed off their bodies - the mk1 'tooling/pressings' was sent off to south africa n sold as the citigolf - which were sold till 2008/2009 - till international crash testing deemed them 'unsafe' - I broke a 1990 citi 'sport' golf; it didn't have the 'mid chassis chassis rails; apparently no citi golfs did throughout their production in s/Africa but had some other rudimentary bracing to make them 'more safe....; presumably the chassis leg pressing tools/pieces fell off the boat or were forgotten in the ware house in Germany to be picked up.... anyways an archaic design remained in production till 08,getting cast off MPI injection engines n polo dashes n other cast offs till sense n safety concerns prevailed ...

[dieselassist]

you can argue that its more of a 'watering down' of the gene pool; than a non performing step child, but the landrover discovery1 300tdi to landrover discovery2TD5 'transition' is worthy of consideration....

....imagine yourself back in the day,an owner of a 300tdi Disco sick of the allegro style stiff to open (allegro et all) door handles,jerky power windows n uncomfortable seats, n marvelling upon the introduction of the discovery 2 Tds when launched, n talking the plunge- a more comfortable interior; smooth 'up n down' leccy windows... but theres trouble on the horizon; the oily bits like the engine; not as reliable or long lasting or as easy n economically viable to fix as the older steed, n simple, consumable parts like bearings cost a multiple of the model traded from....Life is CRUEL!!!

[Ghosty]

Not to mention...

 

[vulgalour]

Ah yes, the "ooh me hip" suspension.

[17-Coffees]

VW's 'new' Beetle?

Largely based on the Mk4 Golf and sold up till 2011, when the Golf was on it's 6th gen.

It's as if nobody told the part of the factory to stop making them, forgot then remembered after a few years but never had the heart to stop and it wasa't untill a new guy came they actually did something. 

 

I'd still own one though...

[twosmoke300]

Disco 1 - terminal body rot

Disco 2 - bad chassis rot and more complicated

 

Choose your poison ( or a defender)