Manual Gearbox Conversion - Calling all Ford aficionados

[Captain Furious]

First off, this is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment and may well not happen, and second, apologies if it's not really autoshite related, I know 'projects' are more blue forum material but, well, it's a bit clicky on there and I don't happen to be in it..

 

So, as you may know I have a Mk3 Granada 24v and despite its many failings I quite like it. It's only real Achilles heal is the autobox. On their best day these are weak and not really up to taking the powah of the mighty cosworth V6, and its best days are well behind it. Generous life expectancy is 100k miles, this is already 120k miles into its 2nd gearbox and signs of fairly imminent failure are there, compounded by the fact I use it for towing, its more a case of when than if it dies.

 

I am the greatest fan ever of automatics and realise this is heresy, but it's honestly not a good gearbox for this engine.

 

Has anyone ever attempted such a conversion? From what I gather I need the MT75 box from a 4X4 with a RWD tail section, prop shaft, flywheel, clutch and starter from a 2.9 manual sierra or Granada, pedal box, shifter etc. Some of which are fairly rare and difficult to come by, but I can probably manage it and as it's a summer car it's off the road for the next 6 months at least anyway.

 

I am pretty competent with the spanners, I've had plenty of engines and gearboxes out before, including a Mercedes A class automatic, so a standard RWD Ford setup should be nothing to rival the horrors of that.

 

The other concern is insurance, one of its main benefits is qualifying for classic insurance at £130 a year, so I don't want it to fall into OMG heavily modified...That will be 10 thousand pounds a year territory.

 

Or just scrap it and get something more interesting.

[tooSavvy]

... pah!! Converting to LHD is where all the money is 'this week' M8

 

lol

 

Hope you get it sorted

 

 

TS

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I don't really know, but that's never stopped me talking bollocks before, but wouldn't any rwd box fit as long as you've got a Cologne manual bell housing?

The 24v Scorp I had years ago shit it's gearbox and I sold it to a guy who was going to put the engine in his Capri, he reckoned it was straightforward bolt in job and that the biggest headache was the electrics.

[chaseracer]

320touring and FPB7 to the beige courtesy phone, please...

[Tamworthbay]

I don't really know, but that's never stopped me talking bollocks before, but wouldn't any rwd box fit as long as you've got a Cologne manual bell housing?

The 24v Scorp I had years ago shit it's gearbox and I sold it to a guy who was going to put the engine in his Capri, he reckoned it was straightforward bolt in job and that the biggest headache was the electrics.

and a Porsche engine slots straight in a beetle with just six bolts...... the swap you mention is possible but look at the Capri forums and you will see a few stalled projects and questions relating to various aspects and there are seemingly a lot more stalled swaps than there are finished cars. The issue around gearbox choice comes down to the input shaft size, length to gearshift, length to output shaft, spline size/ layout on output shaft (but chances are a bespoke prop will be needed anyway) - most of the possible boxes fail on one or more of those. The OPs swap is possible but as mentioned the parts are hard to find and can be expensive. There is a guy in Leicestershire who goes by the name of Nial Diamond who is a mine of info and great at tracking down parts so he would be worth asking. It is definitely doable but needs a fair bit of thought and part collecting beforehand.

[Captain Furious]

You are technically correct that you could use any RWD box that had the correct cologne V6 bell housing (assuming, as TB said, that input shaft lengths are taken into account and you use the correct flywheel/clutch combination) but the reason for the MT75 being the box of choice is that it's more up to taking the power. A Type 9 will fit but they're not that strong. You could also fit a T5 with an adapter plate which are as tough as old boots, but incredibly rare and incredibly expensive.

 

I don't know, I am reasonably financially flush at the moment so I don't mind dropping a few (many) hundred quid on it as a bit of fun, and there is a chance that selling it as an OMGRARE Manual conversion would increase its desireability enough to get some, if not all of that money back at sale time, not least because it would come as a ready made donor ready to be raped and pillaged for a sierra/mk2 Granada conversion.

[Captain Furious]

(There is also a ready made MT75 RWD box on eBay at the moment which is localish to me but the pics aren't working)

[DodgeRover]

Don't you need to con the ECU into thinking it's still running an auto box or is that just the later cars.

Do not bother with the type 9 if towing you'll kill it double quick with that power and torque - that's why they ditched them in the transits and went in to the MT75

[sheffcortinacentre]

Basics are you need a 2.9 4x4 mt75 box & 2wd mt 75 box.

You then strip both & rebuild the gear set from the 4x4 into the 2wd box & then use the front half of 4x4 with its integral v6 bellhousing .

Then use a 2.8/2.9 flywheel & clutch plus a spigot bearing, you'll also need a 2wd manual prop & manual pedal box also the tube for bulkhead that clutch cable comes through.

 

The 2.4/2.9 versions use the type 9 which isn't strong enough for a co say as said above.

 

If your auto has electric Speedo you'll also need a facelift Speedo (twincam all reverted back to a cable driven one).

Brain will work fine.

[Captain Furious]

I don't *think* it's such an issue with the A4LDe on this model, it's basically a mechanical box except for 4th gear engagement and torque converter lockup. So it's essentially just a question of grounding the start inhibitor so it thinks it's in neutral and will allow you to start it

 

On the later bug-eyed cars with the A4LDE (Ford handily distinguished them with an upper and lower case E to make googling relevant info really easy*) which is fully electronic controlled then you have to do a bit more electrickery, but it's still not too bad

 

I do vaguely remember reading about something you do to prevent them stalling so easily, because of it having a light flywheel and not a heavy torque converter, but I can't remember what it was off hand

 

Main thing troubling me about it at the moment is which prop shaft, whether i'll be able to get a suitable factory item or have to have one lengthened. Although it's a popular conversion in sierras and capris it's not as popular in Granadas! They're just the unfortunate donors usually

[Captain Furious]

Fortunately it's a facelift and has a cable speedo, which should be ok with the MT75, which I believe should have a cable speedo drive and electronic speed sensor output for the ECU

[danthecapriman]

This sounds like a ball ache to me but what about looking for a Scorpio 'bug eye' that's a manual V6 and cannibalising it for your car? There's still plenty of them around at the mo and the banger racers like them too...

 

I'd leave it alone tbh, maybe consider fitting an extra ATF cooler somewhere? It's normally excess heat that kills auto boxes when towing.

My mk2 was used for towing (bangers on a flatbed trailer by the last owner!) and it's fine still even with nearly 200k on the clock. I actually quite like the old C3 auto box.

[sheffcortinacentre]

You'd use a twincam prop.

[Captain Furious]

I think manual V6 Scorpio bug eyes are about as common as Mk3's i.e. Not at all. There is the odd 2.3 manual but it's a 4 banger and not sure the bell housing fits a V6. The diesel box apparently fits and is the box of choice, but again rarity is a problem

 

It sounds like a ball ache to me as well, but I've got approx 6 months in my social calendar now where the car is not required and I have nothing going on! So maybe it would be a nice 'winter project'

 

I did look in to ATF coolers, but they're a ball ache too due to an aux cooling fan and engine oil cooler occupying the usual spot to fit them

[danthecapriman]

I think manual V6 Scorpio bug eyes are about as common as Mk3's i.e. Not at all. There is the odd 2.3 manual but it's a 4 banger and not sure the bell housing fits a V6. The diesel box apparently fits and is the box of choice, but again rarity is a problem

It sounds like a ball ache to me as well, but I've got approx 6 months in my social calendar now where the car is not required and I have nothing going on! So maybe it would be a nice 'winter project'

I did look in to ATF coolers, but they're a ball ache too due to an aux cooling fan and engine oil cooler occupying the usual spot to fit them

That's a shame about the oil cooler not being easy to fit. Would a full oil and filter change do any good?

 

I guess with the bug eyes people tend to use them a lot as donors for other Fords already, and as you say most are peasant spec 4 cylinders.

I still reckon your best bet would be to hold out for a suitable bug eye to use as a donor. It'll be full of almost all the stuff you need and would save an awful lot of time and hassle trying to cobble together odds and ends from other sources.

Do you know of any local banger teams? They must have bits hanging around?

[Captain Furious]

I think at present the ATF gets changed approximately every 2000 miles due to it leaking out and burning off on the exhaust and me topping it up. I don't know where exactly it's leaking from because access is so tight but I suspect from the pipes which run to the stock ATF cooler - which as I'm sure you know is basically just a pipe which runs through the bottom rad tank

 

I do know someone who is affiliated with the local banger boys who have got me some parts in the past for my mk2, but I didn't think banger racers touched mk3/4's?

[Junkman]

1. All Scorpios have been raced, that's why there are none left.

 

2. Converting from auto to manual is like throwing away the remote and getting up from the sofa and walk to the telly to change programmes.

 

3. The auto boxes are indesctructible, unless you use them for towing without fitting an auxilliary oil cooler, which was automatically (see what I did there?) fitted, if the trailer tow package was ordered from new. People then added tow bars to cars not fitted with the trailer tow package, hence have no auxilliary oil cooler, thus the gearboxes puke themselves every 50k miles without fail.

 

4. Up to 1986, auto boxes were so overengineered, that they survived trailer towing without blinking an eyelid. This came to an abrupt halt in 1987, like everything else automotive.

Hence you have two options.

 

A. Fit a replacement gearbox and an auxilliary oil cooler to your present newfangled tosh.

 

B. Ditch it and buy a pre 1986 automatic gearboxed Ford.

 

It goes without saying that my suggestion is option B.

[Captain Furious]

I may be one step ahead of you there, as I also happen to own this cars Dad...complete with pre-86 auto-box

 

 

It can also tow, although it isn't particularly good at it and doesn't have an ATF cooler...yet

 

 

Buying this was supposed to signal the sale of the Mk3, but...I do really like the BOA

[Vince70]

How about buying this .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272432197728

It's cheap at the moment and has the towbar and a Spanish waiter

[Captain Furious]

I think, and someone may correct me here if I'm wrong, that a 2.4 of that vintage would have a Type 9 (note reverse gear is up and to the left of 1st whereas an MT75 is below 5th) therefore as a donor car it wouldn't give me a lot besides a pedal box and possibly a flywheel

 

I am considering a cheeky low ball offer on this though, as it's MOT has now expired. Should have half the gearbox I need, prop shaft, pedal box, wiring for speed sensor, clutch switch for cruise control etc etc, I'd still need the correct front half of the gearbox, mate them together, flywheel, clutch etc. Need to do some man-maths

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142143405723

[sheffcortinacentre]

As I said above they have type 9.

[fordperv]

I think, and someone may correct me here if I'm wrong, that a 2.4 of that vintage would have a Type 9 (note reverse gear is up and to the left of 1st whereas an MT75 is below 5th) therefore as a donor car it wouldn't give me a lot besides a pedal box and possibly a flywheel

 

I am considering a cheeky low ball offer on this though, as it's MOT has now expired. Should have half the gearbox I need, prop shaft, pedal box, wiring for speed sensor, clutch switch for cruise control etc etc, I'd still need the correct front half of the gearbox, mate them together, flywheel, clutch etc. Need to do some man-maths

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142143405723

im going to have to check the reg of the identical looking one thats just up the road from me after looking at the ebay link, ill be gutted if it is the one

[Stixy]

Manual box is a nut and bolt job  and the electrics are easy to sort out too . The only downside to the conversion is its pluside ,With the autobox the engine cant rev freely and 3k is 85/90 mph  but with a manual box it will rev better but this can finish off the plastic timing chain tensioner quite quickly as proved on many Sierra 24v conversions   

[Guest bangerfan101]

Mazda rx8 gearbox conversion is one to look in to. Same size input shafts. And conversion plates readily available on flee Bay.

 

Type 9s are getting thin on the ground these days unless your willing to pay blue badge tax