Guilty until proven innocent. Thames Valley Police Not Chris and Ruffey, no Omegas.

[STUNO]

 WW At last an intelligent question    

If you are insured your ins. co. will sort out the responsibility, if police were involved they will assist the company.

Two uninsured cars, sort it out yourselves or take a civil claim to court.

Failure to disclose, I am not sure what happens, but if you are uninsured it is very difficult to claim via the other party's insurance, and they will do the relevant checks before any payout and will take any appropriate legal action.

 my policy conditions contain :

 

$20 million for your legal liability

We will provide the same cover:

To any driver of your vehicle who is not otherwise insured or excluded from cover.

for damage caused by an uninsured trailer or caravan while attached to your vehicle.

for damage caused by an uninsured private motor vehicle driven by you, that you do not own and you are not hiring.

Exclusions :

overloaded,  not roadworthy,  no tax or mot.

 

We do not cover;

Driver was not legally licensed to drive in NZ.( that means a uk licence is ok)

not complying with the licence conditions.

DUI drugs or alcohol.

advised or directed not to drive by doctor 

failed to stop or left the scene.

 

we do not cover you or any drivers intentional reckless deliberate or malicious acts or OMISSIONS.

( includes nuclear bombs).

 

Under making a claim:

co-operate with our assessors, investigators,lawyers etc.

    "     "      with us in defending or settling a claim against you. And in taking action against anyone else involved.

Allow us to take action in your name.

assist us to recover costs from the person responsible for the event.

 

That's just a bit of it !

[Jim Bell]

Interesting.

Good facts man.

 

If insurance was not a mandatory requirement over here, I think a lot of people wouldnt bother. Bump into someone, tell them to fuck off and drive away. Leave the burden of pursuit and prossecution to the victim of the neglegence.

Might end up with an increased workload for the police.

Most people over here (shitters not withstanding) seem to turn into cunts when they get behind the wheel.

[SiC]

Given how quiet the roads are in NZ (compared with Europe) when I went last, I reckon your more likely to bump into the scenery than someone else. Thus making the risk comparatively lower than here in the UK.

 

If you hit someone else, it's probably a neighbour or a friend's friend.

[buckbuckbuckie]

If it is out of hours and the police are not able to verify your claims of being insured then you will be treated as uninsured.

 

It doesnt matter if you have the policy number, the insurance documents, your phone with the insurers email or the name of the insurance company if they can not verify it on the spot you are going to get impounded.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Do "producers" even exist any more?

Yes, they gave my brother a producer yesterday, after taking his car. When he took his documents to the local Police station, the civilian worker on the desk had to ask someone what to do with them. How times change, I remember when I was a lad , you'd be in a queue of people all producing ( or making excuses) their docs.

[Jim Bell]

If it is out of hours and the police are not able to verify your claims of being insured then you will be treated as uninsured.

 

It doesnt matter if you have the policy number, the insurance documents, your phone with the insurers email or the name of the insurance company if they can not verify it on the spot you are going to get impounded.

The insurance doccuments do verify it on the spot though surely. Is that not their only purpose?

[Richard]

Not now that you can print your own. I carry mine anyway.

[Negative Creep]

The insurance doccuments do verify it on the spot though surely. Is that not their only purpose?

 

 

In the good old days people would take out a policy then cancel it, so they could still produce a "valid" certificate when asked

[buckbuckbuckie]

The insurance doccuments do verify it on the spot though surely. Is that not their only purpose?

 

No, they dont!

[AMC Rebel]

 How times change, I remember when I was a lad , you'd be in a queue of people all producing ( or making excuses) their docs.

Me too - I used to get a load of abuse off the copper who pulled me (one a week it seemed like at one stage) and then more abuse off the (in those days) desk sergeant who'd made me wait for ages.   Don't miss being young and out late at night enjoying myself (100% legally) if I'm honest.

 

Also, partly due to my youthful experiences, not a fan of this move to guilty unless you can prove you're not a lying scrote version of the law we're moving to - but maybe that's just my age.

 

Don't get me started on ID cards.... 

[Jim Bell]

Fair enough. Insurance companies could save on a bit of admin and stop sending out verifocation emails, Insurance certificates and other means of verification if theyre worthless and pointless.

[Supernaut]

The point has already been made in here, and it's annoyed me for as long as I can remember.

 

Why, if insurance is a legal requirement, is it not standardised centrally by the government? Like in Oz, where your annual rego (equivalent to VED) includes basic 3rd party insurance.

 

It's such a massive clusterfuck.

[STUNO]

Interesting.

Good facts man.

 

If insurance was not a mandatory requirement over here, 

Might end up with an increased workload for the police.

 

 

NO ! if both uninsured drivers leave  without calling police, it's nothing to do with them.

If the other party is uninsured and you are, see your insurance Co. Once again no police involvement.

If you are uninsured the other party's insurance will contact you to pay.  See your bank manager or wonga lender.

[Jim Bell]

This agrees me^

[daveb47]

The point has already been made in here, and it's annoyed me for as long as I can remember.

 

Why, if insurance is a legal requirement, is it not standardised centrally by the government? Like in Oz, where your annual rego (equivalent to VED) includes basic 3rd party insurance.

 

It's such a massive clusterfuck.

Probably because the insurance companies major shareholders are bunging polititians to keep the gravy train rolling along.

[Mr Livered]

These days even out of date feckers like me have a phone with email, and every time you insure or tax a car now you should receive an email, so I would just take my phone everywhere and access my emails in front of Mr Plod and show them the emails from DVLA  or Insurance company etc..

Sorry but I'm not convinced that you're as far behind the crowd as you think... I know plenty of people who don't have email access in their pocket, self included. No smartphone for me.

[fordperv]

blimey, when I got pulled a couple of years back, my car wasn't showing as insured on the mid when it was, the officer couldn't confirm there and then, after a chat the officer gave me a producer, the only difference was i could remember my insurer, i suppose its down to the copper

[GoGently]

I got stopped in a 2CV after turning a corner in Bedford. They thought I'd just zoomed out of a nearby pub car park & given the lurching of the 2CV they thought I was pissed when in fact it was Tilly the 2Cv that was doing the staggering

[Asimo]

Several days after I had paid through the nose to transfer insurance from one group 23 car to another, I queried no show on MID with my broker and got this reply  

 

Thank you for your email.

 

As regards to the MID it takes 14 days for the MID to update their records to show that you have insurance. As with all governing bodies paperwork always seems takes time to process.

 

As regards to the Vehicle Grouping although Thatcham to provide vehicle grouping for UK vehicles, this is not used by insurers

 

The whole insurance business is a total mess and deserves to die (just like the banks do).

It really is time to sort out the whole MOT / TAX / Insurance / Fuel Duty mess and  for a total rebuild of road traffic law.

 

All of this is a pile of crap that has been growing slowly for more than a century and has become a baroque mess of compromise and confusion.

Get back to first principles and keep it all simple FFS.

[Jim Bell]

Insure car. Drive car. Pull. Have car impounded. Pay to have car unimpounded. Repeat 14 times. Car then finally shows on askmid. Claim 14x impound charges back from police.

Try not to think about the 14 flags against you and the car for non insured driving.

 

It is pretty simple.

[wuvvum]

The insurance doccuments do verify it on the spot though surely. Is that not their only purpose?

I'm pretty sure that legally an insurance certificate is still considered to be proof of insurance.  There was a court case fairly recently where the police impounded a car that was showing up as uninsured even though the driver produced a certificate proving that he was covered to drive the car.  Basically the police believed the computer over the bit of paper.  The court (I think it may have made it all the way to the Supreme Court, but it was at least the court of appeal) found in favour of the motorist.

[Bobthebeard]

I transferred the insurance from the Mercury to the Oldsmobile over two weeks ago. It is still showing as uninsured on the MID. Three phone calls to the broker (Performance Direct) have done nothing. Admittedly it is the insurers and not the brokers fault, but still not on the MID. The brokers assure me it is all insured and good, but the MID still says no. Happily I am not using the car on the road as yet, but will be in a few weeks.

[messerschmitt owner]

what I don't get is the inability to tax something without insurance - thereby making a nonsense of the time taken to appear on the database.

[garbaldy]

That's just it you can tax something without insurance,

Then if you don't insure asap a fine will pop through the letterbox due to this continuous insurance shite they came up with.

All designed to relieve the forgetful motorist of his hard earned.

[Bren]

Do "producers" even exist any more?

The HORT1 still exists. I like them - gives the motorist the opportunity to produce his documents and if they are lying, well, they get summoned.

 

Personally having your certificate of insurance on your phone is for winners.

[forddeliveryboy]

The whole system of road traffic law enforcement seems to be intended to make as much money as possible, rather than make the roads a safer place. The public recognises this and increasingly treats the law something which isn't moral or for the better good, but a form of taxation and so to be avoided if you can get away with it. Short term = politicians patting themselves on the back, longer term = chaos.

 

I suppose the Police's life is made harder, for those with a conscience, with these draconian policies. What happens when a female driver is pulled over and her vehicle snatched, on a winter's evening well away from home, for example? Is there anything in the law to protect her from being abandoned alone in a hostile environment?

 

Adopting the Australian system, as Supernaut points out, would make total sense. Going around making innocent, law-abiding people resent the Police/the law is no way to foster a stable society, even though it may mean 9 below the law are caught for every law-abiding person who is persecuted.
 

[scaryoldcortina]

“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, “whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,†and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.â€

[Jim Bell]

Citizen Smith. 1976.

[Jim Bell]

The whole system of road traffic law enforcement seems to be intended to make as much money as possible, rather than make the roads a safer place.

 

This is unfortunately truer than a roman plumbline.

[scaryoldcortina]

Close, President John Adams, 1776.