Project Strangeangel's Shite-tastic Shenanigans 12/12 NEW MOTOR - ACHIEVED.

[strangeangel]

The 1/2" drive Allen bit did the job... in a manner of speaking:

 

 

Oh, well... the knackered bearings came out easily - a little too easily, in fact:

 

 

ARSE. Maybe time to look for a decent second-hand fork bridge? Or will they all be like this? New ones are available but no because £300.

 

Time for a think (and a brew)...

 

 

[spartacus]

Is that pitting on the inside?

I've probably missed it but what engine is in this, two or four stroke and is it BMWs own?

It looks like it's going to get a second lease of life, you're certainly doing it justice.

[strangeangel]

1 hour ago, spartacus said:

Is that pitting on the inside?

I've probably missed it but what engine is in this, two or four stroke and is it BMWs own?

It looks like it's going to get a second lease of life, you're certainly doing it justice.

 

It's not pitted, that's bodgery - the bearing seat is worn, so someone's peened it to stop the bearings moving around. The motor is, I believe, a Sachs 120cc 4-stroke. BMW also fitted a larger variant - 175cc - but these are pretty rare.

 

[Dave_Q]

Do you know what bearing number it is and have you got some calipers to estimate the size of the hole?

I'm not sure if that seat really is worn, it's very unlikely to get movement between the outer race and the seat.

Could the peenage be bodgery where someone has tried to fit a slightly too small bearing?

[strangeangel]

25 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Do you know what bearing number it is and have you got some calipers to estimate the size of the hole?

I'm not sure if that seat really is worn, it's very unlikely to get movement between the outer race and the seat.

Could the peenage be bodgery where someone has tried to fit a slightly too small bearing?

 

It did surprise me a bit, you get that sort of thing with wheel bearings (like the front wheel on this...) but I've not seen steering head bearings wear the seat out. It's supposed to have SKF 6002s in there, and that's what I've just taken out. You can still clearly see the number.

 

There was play at the steering head, but the bearings haven't collapsed. They are, however, as rough as fuck and really don't  spin freely. I have got some digital verniers but they're at the back of the garage, so I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

[Dave_Q]

Hmm. I was wondering if there was a size you could go up to and get a machine shop to bore it out, but all I can find from a quick search is 37x15x9 and there may not be enough meat for that?

There are several imperial sizes in the 35.something - 36mm range but they obviously all have imperial inner races as well so would just move the problem.

I reckon a machine shop could maybe bore it out and press in a sleeve?

I've seen this ad on my occasional searches for a lathe, can't figure out how to link it from the mobile app and don't know if you do FB but can ask for a number if not.

[Mr Pastry]

8 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I reckon a machine shop could maybe bore it out and press in a sleeve?

How loose is the outer race in the housing?  Loctite Bearing Fit FTW.

[strangeangel]

A pause in all this BMW action for some gratuitous DVLA aggro. They've rejected the Tula's application again, this time because I haven't informed HMRC of it's arrival. Oh yes I have, I reply, quoting the NOVA reference from the certificate in front of me. Sadly, they care not about such things - they queried the HMRC system = COMPUTER SAYS NO, and that's that.

 

I phone HMRC who take my details, check their system and tell me everything is in order with the Tula's NOVA. Now all I have to do is convince DVLA of this...

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, strangeangel said:

A pause in all this BMW action for some gratuitous DVLA aggro. They've rejected the Tula's application again, this time because I haven't informed HMRC of it's arrival. Oh yes I have, I reply, quoting the NOVA reference from the certificate in front of me. Sadly, they care not about such things - they queried the HMRC system = COMPUTER SAYS NO, and that's that.

 

I phone HMRC who take my details, check the system and tell me everything is in order with the Tula's NOVA. Now all I have to do is convince DVLA of this...

 

arse 

when you contacted the DVLA again quoting the NOVA reference was that in written form or over the phone?

if its over the phone, I wonder if it might be worth calling again and hoping you get ahold of someone else that actually has a brain and not just bunch of transistor logic gates masquerading as one?

[strangeangel]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

arse 

when you contacted the DVLA again quoting the NOVA reference was that in written form or over the phone?

if its over the phone, I wonder if it might be worth calling again and hoping you get ahold of someone else that actually has a brain and not just bunch of transistor logic gates masquerading as one?

 

I was on the phone; she seemed quite sane, but she said that they get the NOVA details from HMRC's computer system and don't normally look at paper sources. The chap at HMRC said that this does happen, usually because numbnuts at DVLA has typed the frame number in wrong 🤣 He said if I go back to them and tell them HMRC have confirmed that it's 'live and secure' on their system it's usually confirmed the second time.

 

All the paperwork is on its way back to me again - I think I'll stick a photocopy of the NOVA cert in when I send it all back again. Can't hurt.

 

[strangeangel]

There's more - this morning I received the Velosolex's paperwork back in the post. Turns out it was that they were on about the other day and not the Tula 🙄  hopefully this will be easily remedied - contrary to what I was told yesterday, the record *is* there, it just doesn't show the model number. A quick web chat with HMRC, followed up by an email and that will be taken care of. Then it's just a case of resubmitting the paperwork, and waiting. Again...

 

But what about the Tula, I hear you cry?

 

 

 

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

43 minutes ago, strangeangel said:

There's more - this morning I received the Velosolex's paperwork back in the post. Turns out it was that they were on about the other day and not the Tula 🙄  hopefully this will be easily remedied - contrary to what I was told yesterday, the record *is* there, it just doesn't show the model number. A quick web chat with HMRC, followed up by an email and that will be taken care of. Then it's just a case of resubmitting the paperwork, and waiting. Again...

 

But what about the Tula, I hear you cry?

 

 

Woo!

very happy to see the Tula is road registered finally  

VL is a Lincoln registration marker, and not a bad age related plate, as by 1962, most locations would be on their final reverse registration marks xxxV xxxW xxxX xxxY 

registrations where almost always issued in alphabetical order, so in this markers case AVLxxx was first issued in Dec 1938 then when that hit AVL999 they would they moved onto BVLxxx and so on until July 1964 when XVLxxx was issued then they switched to suffix plates, so never used the reverse marks for this particular location marker, so the DVLA have obviously used them as age related marks

(whether or not you used em all up was down to how many location markers you had for a particular area with how many vehicle registrations where happening, so if you had lots of markers but relatively few cars being registered then you might not actually have ran out by the time suffix plates became a thing, which is where the DVLA get age related plates from these days, and as mentioned before some remote scottish locations never even ran out of their original 2 letter 4 number 1904 allocations!)

so 783XVL does not look out of place at all  (and its not immediately obvious,  like some of the unused Scottish marks are either, as just above VL just never got issued in reverse format they got up to XVLxxx in July 1964, then switched to AVLxxxB in Dec 1964)

it was also interesting as I could use it to see how far behind the first party DVLA checker is from actual issue of a V5/plate and it looks like its about a day behind the latest to show up currently is 778XVL

[strangeangel]

7 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

it was also interesting as I could use it to see how far behind the first party DVLA checker is from actual issue of a V5/plate and it looks like its about a day behind the latest to show up currently is 778XVL

 

 

The paperwork hasn't arrived yet, I rang them earlier and they said it's number was only issued today, so yeah, it might appear tomorrow?

 

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, strangeangel said:

 

The paperwork hasn't arrived yet, I rang them earlier and they said it's number was issued today, so yeah, it might appear tomorrow?

 

Yeah I was wondering how you knew the registration mark before the V5 even showed up LOL, I just assumed you had contacted them or they contacted you and told you

and yeah ill keep an eye on it!, im curious to see what it shows up as on the DVLA as, its not every day a Tula gets registered in the UK i dont think  

once your satisfied everything is in order, will you be able to do a write up on how you went about getting it registered etc? obviously you have managed to get it dated to the DVLA's standards etc  

 

so what sort of number plate will you be fitting?

or are you going to ride it to the FoD like that?  (like a soviet version of how @Six-cylinder's 125cc field bike arrived LOL)

[strangeangel]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

so what sort of number plate will you be fitting?

or are you going to ride it to the FoD like that?  (like a soviet version of how @Six-cylinder's 125cc field bike arrived LOL)

 

Because I'm too mean to pay £££ for a fancy black plate, and my first attempt came out OK it'll be getting a homebrew effort like the Trail 90's

 

 

I'll buy a smaller bit of ali plate this time, because the Tula only needs 6 digits.

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, strangeangel said:

 

Because I'm too mean to pay £££ for a fancy black plate, and my first attempt came out OK it'll be getting a homebrew effort like the Trail 90's

 

 

I'll buy a smaller bit of ali plate this time, because the Tula only needs 6 digits.

 

ah yeah I remember that one, I think it looks/works well  

it reminds me of the number plates on Routemaster/London Transport buses and thats always a good thing in my book

(a lot of the time they where simply transfers/paint on a black background or section of body work etc )

[strangeangel]

It's the DVLA innit... they were never going to get this 100% right:

 

 

Oh well... when it seemed for a time that this would be unregisterable and at best would end up wearing a Q registration I'll take that.

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, strangeangel said:

It's the DVLA innit... they were never going to get this 100% right:

 

 

Oh well... when it seemed for a time that this would be unregisterable and at best would end up wearing a Q registration I'll take that.

 

ah yeah I feared something like that might happen

from discussion on my thread about this common DVLA error it seems to originate from the fact the DVLA data entry clerks dont know how to read their own forms etc or enter the data from said forms into the correct boxes on their computer

but out of curiosity do you remember how you filled the Manufacturer, Make, and Model bit out on the V55/5? I always found that bit interesting as a V5 only has Make, Type, variant, and Version, it does not have Manufacturer or Model in its list of data points, so im curious to know how the Manufacturer Make and Model  on the V55/5 line up with the Make, Type, Variant and Version on the V5 LOL, and it might help us figure out the above common DVLA error of the Model info getting included on the same line/box as the make info, and how to avoid it etc 

 

 (currently the way I I think I would do it is just fill in the manufacturer or make box and leave the other 2 blank, so they cant fluff it up!)

 

but yeah happy to see its on the DVLA after all the work that went into it! hopefully the logbook will be with you soon  

[strangeangel]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

but out of curiosity do you remember how you filled the Manufacturer, Make, and Model bit out on the V55/5? I always found that bit interesting as a V5 only has Make, Type, variant, and Version, it does not have Manufacturer or Model in its list of data points, so im curious to know how the Manufacturer Make and Model  on the V55/5 line up with the Make, Type, Variant and Version on the V5 LOL, and it might help us figure out the above common DVLA error of the Model info getting included on the same line/box as the make info, and how to avoid it etc 

 

 

That's an easy one as I keep copies! I put Tula for Manufacturer, and 200M for Model. On two separate lines, so even if they don't exactly correspond with THE COMPUTER THAT MUST BE OBEYED you'd think they could manage not to type both things into the same box...

 

[strangeangel]

I suppose, thinking on, that I should have just left Model blank, as this has caused me a problem with the Velosolex also... most bike logbooks only show the manufacturer's name anyway.

 

[LightBulbFun]

46 minutes ago, strangeangel said:

 

That's an easy one as I keep copies! I put Tula for Manufacturer, and 200M for Model. On two separate lines, so even if they don't exactly correspond with THE COMPUTER THAT MUST BE OBEYED you'd think they could manage not to type both things into the same box...

interesting!

if you ever get another vehicle which you have to register yourself like the Tula (which knowing autoshite you will  ) 

it would be interesting to see what result you would get if you put the info in Make and Model (leaving manufacturer blank) instead

 

on a separate note, I have wondered if you can ever correct these mistakes as I noticed while the V5 has on it ways to change things like colour and engine number etc

theres no way to change the Make or Model info, probably a call the DVLA job I imagine?

 

32 minutes ago, strangeangel said:

I suppose, thinking on, that I should have just left Model blank, as this has caused me a problem with the Velosolex also... most bike logbooks only show the manufacturer's name anyway.

yeah as in my post above thats what id probably do if I was doing one of these   (at least until I figured out how I could reliably get them to put the model info in the right section!)

and having no Model info is probably how they where registered back in the day anyhow  (I noticed back then it was only really private cars that had any sort of Model info recorded on them, most everything else just had make recorded and thats it)

as the old V5's had a Model section but it was also the Type section so also included the wheel plan and body type

so for example my car was make: INVACAR Model/Type: 3-WHEEL INVALID VEHICLE

it was only in later V5's did the wheel plan and body type get split into their own lines, leaving the Model section blank (it will be interesting to see how the Tula's V5 actually looks compared to how it is on the DVLA checker)

(also my bad there is a model entry on the V5 its just buried down the ways, but still no "Manufacturer" line like there is on the V55/5)

 

so something like your Tula would have been registered as Make: Tula Model/Type 2-WHEEL SCOOTER

as seen here on the old Heinkel scooter V5 in this post

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-model-70-survivors-list-on-page-24-pre-model-70-ac-and-invacar-survivors-lists-added-on-page-135/?do=findComment&comment=2117458

 

[strangeangel]

Have to say I do find your on-going research into the weird and wonderful workings of the DVLA fascinating  👍  From that point of view it'll be interesting to see what they do with the Velosolex's V5c as they were picky enough to query the NOVA declaration over that very detail.

 

Am I planning to do another one? Well, of course, but the next Russian heap I buy will have documents - lesson learned - and I am actively trying to buy one of the Tula's close relatives as I type this. They are more numerous here than the scooters themselves, but very cool all the same. More soon, fingers crossed!

 

The big problem with Iron Curtain junk is that - unlike just about everyone else - none of the Soviet factories ever released any production records, and consequently even a dating certificate from the redoubtable Cossack Owners' Club (and they have been brilliant*) counts for little unless supported by original documents or a letter from a museum etc. I don't want to say how I did it on an open forum, but suffice it to say that I'd think long and hard about another Soviet wreck were it not accompanied by papers.

 

 

*their magazine - Horizontal View - is ace, and well worth the price of admission alone.

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks Im glad someone is finding it interesting! I often worry it can get a bit rambley/confusing LOL

but yeah its an off shoot of the whole Invacar thing, as a lot of Invacars have been "tangled up" in DVLA  fuckery for lack of a better term LOL

so I had research how it all worked for the invacars, and I found it quite fascinating in its own right so iv constantly researching it since, and its come in quite handy on several occasions! 

(especially as like well Invacars most people dont really know that much about the DVLA and there is not really that much info out there on the DVLA especially how things worked historically, and when asked questions relating to the DVLA  most people just shrug their shoulders and go "its the DVLA dont try and make sense of it" LOL, so I find it all the more fascinating)

 

I look forward to seeing what next it is you get  

[strangeangel]

Didn't fancy doing battle with the C1 again today, so I actually had the morning off from 'shiting and decided I'd do a straightforward* job in the afternoon. I've had all the goodies to re-upholster and re-cover the Ami's ragged seats for a while now... what a nice, simple task for a sunny afternoon!

 

I carefully took everything apart, taking photos at every step, boxed all the rubber donuts and the various rods and clips employed. Only when I came to lift away the remains of the foam and covers did I see this:

 

 

What you're looking at there is the bench seat's centre upright, which has snapped off and been snot welded back together at some point. The bit of stainless tubing is an unsuccessful attempt at coring the upright. I will have to find an off-cut of mild steel tubing 19mm O/D which will fit a bit better and then get it all welded up. After taking this photo, I discovered a cracked weld on the passenger side of the frame. Nothing too serious, then, but it's going to slow things up as I'll have to get someone else to do the repairs - I only have an old ass arc welder which would blow dirty great holes in this.

 

So much for an easy job, eh? 🙄

 

[strangeangel]

I've a feeling in my water that the hideous rumbling from the OSF when I turn left means one of the BX's wheel bearings is about to shit itself. Best crack on with this Ami seat repair/reupholster then eh? I needed a bit of tubing, of 19mm O/D to core the snapped seat upright, but where would I find such a thing? Why, Castle_Cleland of course! @KruJoe to the rescue. It was a nadgers too tight, but shaving off the paint with the trusty grinder did the job. Weldage followed and lo, we have a seat frame full of integral strength again. Nice one.

 

 

So far so good. First job was to fit the spring bits of hessian that the foam sits on. Wait one fucking minute...

 

 

The original one is below. Bastard. These were the only bit of the whole pile of stuff that didn't come from Der Franzose. It was a UK supplier I've never used before (and can't find the invoice from, annoyingly) who swore blind 2CV ones were the same as those used in the Ami. I did ask him if he wanted to check, do you know what he said? "It's fine mate, when you've been working with these cars as long as I have you just get to know". It's a good job he's not anywhere near now, or else he'd be getting these inserted sideways, the twat.

 

So that's the job bolloxed for today at least, but I still need a working car. Time to break out the bungee cords and garage ex-sofa kneeling cushions then.

 

 

It's actually surprisingly comfortable 🤣

 

 

I might be better off trying to get someone to copy those hessian things...

 

[Dave_Q]

Guess you may have seen this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-C1-2000-15k-miles-Spares-or-repair-No-reserve/233743771995

[strangeangel]

19 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Guess you may have seen this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-C1-2000-15k-miles-Spares-or-repair-No-reserve/233743771995

 

NO! Cheers blud 👍

 

[strangeangel]

Bit of progress today; not a lot as I seem to have spent a lot of time thinking in an attempt to avoid screwing up.

 

 

Still, the newly-drilled out fork bridge is reinstalled, complete with new steering head bearings. No more up and down play at the end of the handlebars! The bearing seat wasn't as bad as I first thought, but it got a smear of Bearing Fit anyway. New fork seals are installed too, the forks now just need re-filling, re-assembling and bolting back on (hopefully tomorrow).

 

[strangeangel]

I fitted the (£80-worth!) of centre stand cables, but I can't tick that job off yet because the clip that stops the cable ends popping out of the stand end is missing. BMW's spares operation is excellent though, all parts for these weird scooters are still available, and can be ordered through their car dealerships, removing the need to pay £12 postage on a £4 clip.

 

While I'm waiting for that to turn up, I decided to try and fix the top box. One of the locating lugs is broken off - TADTS - and the catch at the rear that locks it in place is toast. My first thought was to mount it permanently, then cut the bottom out to allow access to the battery compartment, finishing the job with a false floor. This idea was quickly binned as far too much like hard work!

 

Remember the totally wrong size bit of stainless rod that someone tried to cobble the Ami's seat frame with?

 

 

A tight-fitting hole was drilled and the pipe bashed in. It's stopped from moving any further by one of the box's rubber feet behind it; that, and Araldite, although it's in too tight to move anyway. A bit of re-profiling with a grinder and it fitted no problem.

 

Now for the catch: I gutted it and bolted the shell back to the bottom of the box. Two longer bolts (scrap Honda crankcase ones) meant that the box could now be bolted to the threaded holes in the frame. A bit of flat bar was added to spread the load...

 

-

 

Much less effort, does the job and can be removed with 2 bolts if I need to get to the battery, change a bulb, etc.

 

[strangeangel]

Wahey!