Engine pre-heating

[Squire_Dawson]

On my old engine, switching to a lighter grade oil in winter is simply not an option (quality 10w40 mineral oil seems impossible to find and is a bit too thin once warmed up). I want to cut cold-start wear and extend the life of the engine and battery by fitting an engine heater of the type that you plumb into the cooling system and plug in to the mains electricity. Has anyone had experience of these devices?

 

Before it is suggested, I don't think the old way of placing a small paraffin burner under the sump actually does anything useful...

[I_am_Diesel]

The only time I have seen such devices was when I was living in Canada where they get mega cold winters. I didn't think that there would be a need here but happily to be proved wrong.

[dollywobbler]

What old engine? I generally run 2CVs on 15w40 or 10w40, though 20w50 is ok for summer use. Mind you, I couldn't give a monkeys about quality. They get the cheapest oil I can find. Home Bargains meant to be good for 10w40 at the moment apparently.

[Rusty_Rocket]

Any oil available today will surely be superior to the stuff our engines were designed to run with.

[Squire_Dawson]

 

The only time I have seen such devices was when I was living in Canada where they get mega cold winters. I didn't think that there would be a need here but happily to be proved wrong.

 

I agree, generally there isn't, but the 20w50 oil I use has a pour point of -15 deg. C, which makes for a considerable strain on the starter and concerns about upper cylinder lubrication.

 

It's me being awkward refusing to use a modern car.

[Squire_Dawson]

Engine is a BL 1098cc transverse, oil is Miller's Classic Mini, so has added EP properties for the shared engine and gearbox sump, which I believe make it thicker still.

[spike60]

Some of the mobile plant I work have these fitted to Scania and Volvo engines. They are a 240v kettle element mounted in a housing that bolts into the water jacket of the engine block. I've chucked several away and blanked off the holes when I've had the engine in bits, they're unwanted clutter in England from our point of view. I'm sure they're useful in Northern Sweden though.

  I have no experience of any aftermarket heaters but ours are literally a kettle element.

[michael1703]

Ive not had a winter in suffolk this year but I'd been thinking of pre heating so my LPG Range Rover switches to LPG sooner.

 

One idea I thought I'd try is the standard pre heaters most renaults have.

 

I bought one from a scrapie for a fiver, they are heated by glow plugs so I was thinking of using a 240>12v transformer

 

Like this one

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COOLANT-PREHEATER-Renault-Master-Vauxhall-Movano-2-2-/131711899380?hash=item1eaaa416f4:g:YIAAAOSwEgVWSHhC

[spike60]

Does that have a pump in it?  It looks to go in a hose so I would expect the heat to stay in the hose with no circulation. Or is it for a faster warm up when running? Our are in the block.

[dollywobbler]

Engine is a BL 1098cc transverse, oil is Miller's Classic Mini, so has added EP properties for the shared engine and gearbox sump, which I believe make it thicker still.

 

Fair enough. Not a great engine to chuck cheap shitty oil into then! Can't say our Mini ever seemed to struggle with winter starting though, even when it was minus 15 and the footwells were full of ice. 

[lisbon_road]

That looks interesting.  Presume you'd need a pump with it to circulate the heat.  Why do Renault use them?  

 

I know we don't need them here but the idea of warming is good. 

[michael1703]

Does that have a pump in it?  It looks to go in a hose so I would expect the heat to stay in the hose with no circulation. Or is it for a faster warm up when running? Our are in the block.

It's just an aluminium tube with tapped holes to take 3/8unf 24tpi threads.

 

No pump, I was going to try without and with and see how much effect it made but we didn't get a frost until late January so it didn't happen

[andy18s]

Kenlowe used to do the 240v heater/pump a few years ago,and they seemed fairly popular with the Landrover crowd

Maybe worth a look ?

[spike60]

I googled it and all the aftermarker ones seem to have built in pump.

[scdan4]

Does that have a pump in it?  It looks to go in a hose so I would expect the heat to stay in the hose with no circulation. Or is it for a faster warm up when running? Our are in the block.

 

they're there to make hot air come out of the heaters quicker I thought, rather than to try and help the engine. I thought they were plumbed into the heater matrix feed. No pump.

 

Seen then in canada plenty. ooop norf lots of the car parking spaces in town have a plug point by them so you can keep your motor warmish while you shop.

 

They're defo available aftermarket, but I have no experience of them. I also think that you're maybe worrying too much. I can't see any measurable difference in wear would be achieved by using one. 

[spike60]

These seem fairly typical.

 

http://www.enginepreheater.co.uk/

[Eddie Honda]

Kenlowe used to do the 240v heater/pump a few years ago

They have done for years and still do. http://www.kenlowe.com/Heating.php

[forddeliveryboy]

Those at £85 which spike60 links to are what I'd try if buying now, new Kenlowe prices are very high and their older stuff, although well-enough made, has a tendency to need attention just when you least need to pull it out of the bonnet and strip it. It's the pump which sticks.

 

Can't recommend a coolant preheater highly enough for anyone with a larger engine especially if there are some shortish trips in winter or if veg oil is used. The luxury of having instant warm air in the car to defrost the windows when it's sub zero or snowy is fantastic. Also with carb-fed engine, no trying to make the engine run right as it warms up - which usually isn't a bother but if in tricky winter conditions can be a pain.

 

You've just to remember to undo the cable before you set off, worth engineering things and parking so that when you do (it's guaranteed to happen once) the connector just pulls directly out rather than having a 240v cable winding round a wheel/driveshaft and/or pulling fastenings undone.

[Barry Cade]

[Junkman]

If in the utmost ambient climate this utterly hostile planet has to offer, which coincidentally happens to be, where the British isles are located,

the grade of your motor oil makes any difference, I suggest, dear sir, that your engine is fucked.

[PhilA]

We have electric engine heaters that sit in line to the radiator to all our diesel generators. Average ambient temperature I the winter here is about +15C but the things sit at a toasty 55C year-round.

 

They gotta start and be at full load in a few seconds. Apparently it helps because most of the engines are from the seventies and still going strong...

 

Phil

[dave21478]

Alternatively, forget the electric idea and hit the scrappy and find a TD4 Freelander or Rover 75 with the same engine. They have a Webasto fuel burning heater fitted. It burns diesel, so you would need a second tank somewhere, but its not much. I have seen folk with a 5 litre bottle in the boot as a fuel source for them. It has its own wee fuel pump that you would need and the main burner unit has an electric water pump to plumb into a coolant line.

 

Granted, a bit more work to install, but you would then be autonomous and it works anywhere - not reliant on having mains power access where you park. I have a remote fob and receiver I bought from Maplins that I wired up to mine so I can turn it on from the kitchen and it heats the coolant and turns on the cabin blower to warm up the inside while I eat my toast.

[andy18s]

Disco 3/Peugeot tdv6 has the same fitted,although it's officially there to keep the engine at its optimum operating temperature. ...seems the cooling system is a bit too effective on these engines

They can be programmed to operate off the key fob though,or have a timer kit fitted....

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[conkerman]

What Junkman said

 

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[rainagain]

I read a while ago about people using fish tank heaters as engine heaters as they're cheap and water/oil proof. I think they just attached them inside the sump, not sure what they did with the wiring I suppose you could take it out a using a cable gland perhaps? 

[rainagain]

Something like this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Stainless-Steel-Submersible-Fish-Tank-Adjustable-Heater-THERMOSTAT-/252193965927?var=551028977154&hash=item3ab7ee8767:m:mO98lGtScjPR82_qJ-mmP7Q

[dollywobbler]

Disco 3/Peugeot tdv6 has the same fitted,although it's officially there to keep the engine at its optimum operating temperature. ...seems the cooling system is a bit too effective on these engines

 

Apparently it has more to do with the efficiency of the engines, allied to the complete removal of fuel on the over-run. It's why temperature gauges these days often lie. Project Drive soon saw the Webastos sacked off on the 75s. Certainly, modern diesels really do struggle to get any heat into themselves. 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I've had Ulysses, Galaxys and BMWs with Webasto and Erberschpacer (sp?) auxillary heaters and apart from the tiny exhaust pipes you'd never know they were there. In fact I think they all stopped working at some point and I never bothered to investigate.

The BMW could be programmed to act as a preheater, ( probably the same as the Freelander one mentioned by Dave) but I never managed to have a spare couple of hours to study the handbook.

[Bren]

Bung a k series in it.

 

It will still be hot the next morning.

[sierraman]

It's rarely that cold in the UK for this to be necessary. If you are concerned though you could look for an old sump paraffin heater.