Ronald Mc_Bo11ox's LAGUNA ODYSSEY OMG FTP SOS ETC LOL

[Shep Shepherd]

Steely Dan + Laguna = WIN

 

Steely Dan makes every car a winner

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Alright gang, here I am poping up asking for help like a homeless man waving a dog with an abscess round and asking for money 'for vets bills'

 

I got the Blue Gooner on the road a couple of months back after completing the following jobs:

 

• 2 new rear axle bushes. For this I bought a tool off eBay for £40, it was 50% monkey metal but by welding some reinforcements onto it I got 3 new bushes installed (there are only 2 on the car, but I fucked one up during the installation so had to buy another). TOP TIP: if you have to do this job, but proper Renault bushes. I bought some cheapy £14 ones from GSF and the metal outer tubes were made from 0.01mm thick tinfoil making them a total bastard to fit. I am certain pukka Renner ones will be a lot easier to fit and after some digging are not that much more expensive.
• 2 new track rod ends, bought off ebay for £8 each they turned out to be Sachs or some other decent make.
• 2 new front Tyres - I splashed out on Firestones at about £120 for a pair thinking that the car deserved some decent boots.
• 1 new coil spring (surprise!!!!!)
• 1 new lower balljoint
• 2 new front window mechs, £20 each and easy to fit.

 

That lot got it through the MOT and by the time I was done i reckoned the car owed me getting on for £500 and several hours of grafting but it did seem like a nice car with only 60k on the clock and did not feel especially tired.

 

Its been in service ever since and i have to say its BLOODY GREAT!!! Been totally reliable including a trip to France and back and I am writing this from the spectacularly beautiful region of the Palantina mountains in Northern Spain, to which I have been carried over the last few days by the trusty gooner. Its getting about 35mpg in daily use, all the windows work, the key cards work and there are no tyre pressure warnings. I have spent £20 on a dedicated AUX adaptor for the factory Becker stereo so we could listen to audibooks while swooshing down the French motorways and all in all its super long-legged and a flippin brilliant way to travel.

 

 

 

However I have one problem which is driving me crackers. The aircon! It works, but it clicks on and off all the time on a steady 4-5 sec cycle. I had it round to a local dude for recharging which is when we noticed the problem. When i got it it had about 1/3 the required amount of refrigerant gas in so he vaccuumed it out, squirted some oil in and recharged it with the right qty of gas. It may have had the problem previous to this but I didnt notice it then. No matter what the temperature inside or outside the car, it is permanently clicking on and off. The aircon dude reckoned the pressure-sensing switch in the condensor was probably the cause, telling the aircon system there was a pressure fault when there wasnt really. After a while I went to another aircon guy who loked at it and pressure-checked it and came to a similar conclusion, so i bought another switch and fitted it at Mutha_Bo11ox's house in France the other day. Made no difference though. The aircon does work in that it can deliver air colder than the ambient temp, but its really feeble due to only being on for 50% of the time!! And more annoyingly, it means the engine gains and loses ~5bhp every 5 seconds so when you are driving slowly you can feel the 'jerk' torque reaction of the engine every time it clicks in and out, ruining the smooth drive.

 

Basically the compressor seems to be working and pumping the refrigerant OK, theres defo plenty of refrigerant in (not too much though, just over 600gm where 650 is the spec), no leaks and the pressure switch is new, but the problem persists. ANy suggestions? Cheers!

[Kiltox]

Dodgy wiring. Pretty sure that's what means it doesn't work at all on my ex-SiC Scenic that is now with my father in law

 

Bloke on here with an Espace fixed his air con wiring - might help you (can't remember his username sorry)

 

Those photos are fucking ace!

[OwdChina]

Yo Boll, sounds like the accumulator is partially blocked. Had the same problem meself once. Listen closely to it and you may just hear the fluid struggling through the restriction.

[Split_Pin]

Good to see another Laguna update from you. Plus 1 on the pictures also.

[twosmoke300]

Would be interesting to hook it to pressure gauges while it cycles . Do the fans run with the Ac on ? If the fans don't work the pressure will get too high pretty quickly and cut the Ac . Pressure drops - Ac cuts back in - and repeat

[dollywobbler]

I'll watch with interest. The 600 isn't that bad, but it does cycle on and off pretty frequently and as you say, you really do feel it kicking in and out. Think the air con will be a major bonus in the next couple of days!

[r.welfare]

Bloke on here with an Espace fixed his air con wiring - might help you (can't remember his username sorry)

That was me but my compressor was not operating at all because an earth wire under the battery tray was corroded - now it's fixed the compressor is pretty much on all the time rather than doing the classical cutting in and out, but I'm led to believe this is a design feature of these Renault systems, something about a variable displacement compressor that dispenses with the usual clutch? I could be talking bollocks but (I think) this is what my friendly local (and extremely knowledgable) mobile aircon man said.

 

Bottom line is it should be pretty powerful when on song, the Espace remains cool inside despite having more glass area than the average conservatory.

 

Can you find the Renault workshop manual online in PDF form anywhere? My recollection is it explains the system quite well.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Fans are on when the aircon is on, defo. They are cycling on and off too!

[beko1987]

Bet that causes some looks when waiting at traffic lights!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Just been fannying about with the window mechs which have fallen apart like they do every other flipin week. But, whats this? SAAB wiring connectors in a Renault?

 

[Daniel R25]

Hi,
those photos look great. Where is that exactly?

I just returned from a similar trip to France and northern Spain with a year 2000 Grand Espace 16V that I had bought just for the trip. Had a great time there, too...

I'd change the accumlutor as Meowdchina proposed. While you are at it- change the orifice tube as well. - you'll find it in one of the tubes connecting to the acculmulator- you can just see the tip and withdraw the orifice tube with some pointy pliers. Here is a photo of mine - old vs new
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa243/attux/DSC_2031_zps0m5nnsyp.jpg

Daniel

[SiC]

Just been fannying about with the window mechs which have fallen apart like they do every other flipin week. But, whats this? SAAB wiring connectors in a Renault?

 

Look at the ECU in front of the battery under the bonnet. The connector also has Saab on it. The ECU is the automatic Transmission ECU for the same model box that Saab used to use. ECU says Renault on it, but same shape and style as the Saab ECU too. I wouldn't be surprised if that was all developed by Saab.

 

Typical Renault in that the ECU isn't bolted down in anyway - just a rubber strap holding it in!

 

Interestingly it used the be Volvo that used Renault diesel engines. Not sure if Saab took any Renault bits though...

[SiC]

Aircon could be a number of things.

 

Could be over pressurised and short cycling - happened to my Civic when the machine was putting in double the amount of gas into its system.

 

Could also be normal! But given that you can feel it kicking in and out when driving I suspect not. I dont feel it in my Laguna, but then I think thats a bit low on gas tbh as its a bit noisier than I would expect.

 

The other thing could be that it's over pressuring due to a blockage in the system causing the gas not to flow around quick enough. If it was previously out of gas, the dryer/accumulator could have had one of its drying balls dislodged and intobthe system (think Silica drying sachets). Or the expansion valve is sticking.

[SiC]

Oh btw, most systems don't run constantly nowadays. They kick in and out to save fuel. Usually either pump till they hit max pressure and then wait till it drops back down to a certain level before kicking back in again. Also if the evaporator gets to a certain temp, it'll stop until it raises a bit.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I think I am gonna follow the AS wisdom and fit a new accumulator and orifice tube/expansion valve. Seemingly both only have a finite service life and neither are hideously expensive so lets give it a whirl. I really like the car and expect to keep it for a while anyway.

 

Dan R25, the photos were taken on th road between Triollo and Cervera de Pisuerga in the Palencia province of Spain!!!! Absolutely beautiful place, probably my second best holiday of all time after the Azores.

[SiC]

Do I dare say this, but is this going to be your main, reliable modern?

 

Touch wood, 3.2k miles and 4 months (I think?), no FTP and only rarely an occasional blip.

[Pillock]

 you can just see the tip and withdraw the orifice tube with some pointy pliers. 

 

I think I saw a video on that in secondary school science. 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Do I dare say this, but is this going to be your main, reliable modern?

 

Touch wood, 3.2k miles and 4 months (I think?), no FTP and only rarely an occasional blip.

I've done almost 6000 miles in 2.5 months and the worst I can say is the front windows drop off their runners if you slam the doors with the windows half down. So don't do that!!!!

[Snipes]

Hey how about another tat thread/blog update? 

[SiC]

I've done almost 6000 miles in 2.5 months and the worst I can say is the front windows drop off their runners if you slam the doors with the windows half down. So don't do that!!!!

Lies. Laguna's are shit, FTP every given moment, can't ever be trusted and struggle to do the milage....

 

Not had a problem with my windows yet. Not sure if the phase 2 had a different/revised mechanism though.

 

Mrs_SiC definitely has taken a liking to the Laguna. Given a choice between the civic and it, she goes for it everytime. Suggesting possible replacements for it, the response was "why do you want to replace a decent car?". I even got a telling off for not being careful enough, when putting a door in outside the DIY shop because she thought I was going to scratch & damage the leather. Yet when I used the civic for a tip run and made it throughly filthy inside, no fucks were given... Irony is that the Civic is worth a whole lot more!

 

Definitely a keeper. The car that is.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yo! I'm still struggling with this aircon business.

 

I ordered a new reciever and expansion valve. Went round to the aircon dude today for him to drain the system. When he'd done that, I took one of the pipes off the reciever andf got a face blasted full of water and oil out of there, ruining my fuggin shirt as well as my sense of humour. The reciever is about 2/3 full of oil and water so that sounds like theres room for improvement but where the fugg is this expansion valve? Its not in the pipes joining onto the reciever - its too long to fit in them for a start. Any idea where I should look for the bastard?

 

[SiC]

They usually leave a bit of pressure in the system to keep the seals in check, as they're designed to be at a pressure above atmosphere. Or might have left it as under a vacuum. Either way, next time, push in the low pressure Schrader valve after having it extracted.

 

Expansion valve is usually on the pipes that go through the scuttle into the cabin. You should see it at the back of the engine bay. I'd go out and take a picture of it on mine, but it's pissing it down right now...

[SiC]

That oil should be put back into the new receiver afaik, as the system is designed to have a certain amount of oil in the system. Or drained out, measured and equivalent fresh amount put in the new receiver. It's special oil for aircon systems too.

[carlo]

The first thing I thought when I read your a/c issues was that it was bound to be a modern fuel saving feature as it's on a modern.  Perhaps it's just cutting in and out with a bit more of a thump than it should be?  

 

Anyway hopefully you'll sort it.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I think I've found it now, theres a join in the pipe that doesn't connect to the reciever (is that the HP side then?) with a crimp in the pipe about 2.5" from the joint, I reckon its in there, I will have a squizz tomorrow when theres some new daylight available.

[Daniel R25]

Yes, know I remember - that is where it is...

Sorry, I didn't remember the exact position.

Daniel

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Right I went up the garage last night and swapped the aircon reciever and fitted a new expansion tube valve thingy. The old one had a bit of shit in but didnt look catastrophic. Went back to the aircon fella and had it gassed up tonight - its EXACTLY THE FUGGIN SAME FFS. Clicks in and out on a steady 5 sec cycle.

 

What I did learn from the aircon due's machinery is that the LP side of the system is operating at far too high a pressure, can be up to 150PSI, should be about 1/3 of that seemingly. The Laguna only has a port on the LP side, nothing on the HP side of the compressor so I dont know what the output from the compressor is but with a new expansion valve in I must be getting something like the right pressure drop, so presumably the whole system is greatly over pressure? What could cause that I wonder, its basically just a pump pumping stuff through an orifice plate and normally if there was a problem with the pump the symptoms would be not enoguh pressure not too much. Maybe there is some sort of pressure regulating valve inside the compressor or something that is playing up.

 

I did inspect the condenser and its not in great shape, although it is not leaking.

 

 

 

This is what cools the refrigerant after its been pumped up to high pressure in the compressor, before it is fed through the expansion tube in which it vapourises and goes very cold. If it was not taking out as much heat as it is supposed to, that could potentially lead to an overpressure situation I guess as the gas will not have 'contracted' as much as it should do. But I just struggle to imagine the system being so sensitive that a few fins missing would stop the whole lot working properly.

 

I have now got 200g of refrigerant in - 1/3 the proper qty - and because of that, the system pressure is staying low enough for the aircon not to click off. Its now 'working' but a bit lame, though I think better than when it was clicking on and off all the time.

 

A new condenser is about £65 and you have to take the front bumper and god knows what else off so I think I will do a bit more reading and try to convince myself one way or the other before getting into that. Any thoughts anyone?

[Split_Pin]

About 2/3 of the bottom row of fins on my Astra condenser fell off when I changed the radiator about 7 years ago. The actual channel which carries the refrigerant was fine and not breached ( must have only been connected to the fluid supply at one end) so I just tied the lot back up with those wire things you get along with freezer bags. System worked fine for several year after that so don't think the fins have got owt to do with fluid circulation, just heat radiation. The system eventually died a few years ago but that was likely due to general wear and tear. Almost sounds like there is some sort of blockage and the pump is trying to work against that high pressure and falling over every 5s.

[r.welfare]

Tried Amazon? I got a Magneti Marelli condenser (yeah I didn't know they'd branched out either) for my Espace for £26. The original was bowing at the bottom, so most of the fins had fallen out, plus it was leaking a bit round the pipe joins.