Advice for a friend's Alfa 159 JTS 1.9

[garethj]

A friend has an 2007 reg Alfa 159 Turismo JTS with a 1.9 petrol engine.  He also has excellent taste in booze so last night was very good indeed.

 

His Alfa has put the engine management light on and is apparently running rough.  It's got 60,000 miles on the clock and when he took it to the garage they drained the oil and found lots of swarf in there.  Apparently it's £1100 to change the timing chain and it's not worth doing compared to the value of the car.

 

Does all that sound reasonable?

 

Have a pic, it's a pretty car

[crapcarcollector]

If it's a JTS petrol then is 2.0, and they don't have chains.....

[Barry Cade]

The JTS had a 1.9 version of GM's 2.2 engine found in Vectras and some Astras.. Its a horrible lump.. 2 seperate chains I believe and after spending £1100 it will still be a Vectra engine.

 

No.

 

Buy a proper Alfa with the £1100. and spend the change on a new variator and belt kit, a full service and a bottle of good Whisky.

[garethj]

So what are the options here?

 

£1100 (or internet searching says £600) on a new set of chains, hoping that will turn the engine management light off, then the car will be worth ...what?

 

Sell the car as it is now, how much is it worth?  Ebay suggests £1500 to £3500 which is quite a spread!  It's only got 60k on the clock and it's made in 2007, I've got socks older than that, and probably with more miles on.

[Barry Cade]

Probably best getting a good Alfa specialist to do the work for 6-700 quid then keep the car for as long as poss.Not worth doing to sell IMO.

[panhard65]

Before spending any money on it have the front subframe checked for rust as I have just fitted a new subframe to a 2006 due to rot. The job came out at £1300 so just make sure it isn't rotten before spending a penny on it.

[406V6]

Get some OBD diagnostics on it so at least you know what the engine computer is complaining about. It might be something cheap and/or easy to sort out.  These days with OBD being a standard everyone with a post ~2003 car (check Wikipedia for the details of dates if it's important to you) should have a set so you can be informed when dealing with repairs (yourself or external). My chariot is pre-OBD standard but I have a copy of the Peugeot PP2000 and it's a huge relief reading codes myself so that I can deal with the car repairer in an informed way.

[twosmoke300]

Before spending any money on it have the front subframe checked for rust as I have just fitted a new subframe to a 2006 due to rot. The job came out at £1300 so just make sure it isn't rotten before spending a penny on it.

I welded an 06 subframe last week as it happens .

[panhard65]

I welded an 06 subframe last week as it happens .

I thought that for an mot welding wasn't allowed on subframes ? The one I changed had rotted through the front crossmember then both sides by the wishbone mounts. One hole was big enough to get you fist through it. The new one didn't even have any paint on it where the wishbones mount. It now has a few layers of stonechip followed by a few litres of waxoyl.

[twosmoke300]

It passed an mot ok , I've told her a new one is reqd mind

[scaryoldcortina]

I thought that for an mot welding wasn't allowed on subframes ? The one I changed had rotted through the front crossmember then both sides by the wishbone mounts. One hole was big enough to get you fist through it. The new one didn't even have any paint on it where the wishbones mount. It now has a few layers of stonechip followed by a few litres of waxoyl.

Welding is not permitted on suspension or steering arms... subframes are fair game as long as it's done well.

[garethj]

Thanks, chaps.  No joy with a generic OBD reader, the one that worked for his Polo couldn't read the code on the Alfa.  I guess the thing to look at is the value of the car with and without the work done, then spin the Alfa roulette wheel to see if getting the work done will actually fix it.

 

Part of last night's discussion was that he'd never met anyone who'd owned an Alfa where the story didn't end in "catastrophic failure", which I think is a good point, well made.

[Barry Cade]

Part of last night's discussion was that he'd never met anyone who'd owned an Alfa where the story didn't end in "catastrophic failure", which I think is a good point, well made.

Between the wife and I we've had more than half a dozen. Never a serious issue. Wonderful cars.

 

Surely a subframe doesn't go from MOT pass to fist sized hole in a year? You really need to be an enthusiast and tinkerer to own an Alfa, it should be part of the contract. At least have a shelf in the garage that has Selina, waxoil and a box of fuses on it.

[garethj]

Well you could have piped up with that last night!

[J-T]

There's some software called multi ECU scan that you can download for free that will read the code, works on all Fiat/Alfa stuff. The full version is about £50 and comes with many more unlocked features but the free one will read the codes

[strangeangel]

I'd weigh it in before it made another attempt on my wallet. Never seen the point of Alfa Romeos, but then I'm more concerned with cars actually working than how pretty they are.

 

Maybe that's unfair but the only people I've ever known who ran them never had their hand out of their pocket and the only one I've ever driven (a 156) was properly fucking awful... it had some sort of pointless semi-automatic gearbox for which alone it deserved to die.

[cort16]

I had a 159 for 2 years and did 40k in it and nowt went wrong. Well other than one of the back doors wouldn't open m. My c class on the other hand...

[Lacquer Peel]

People seem happier with unreliable German cars because of the age old "German cars are reliable" mantra, it's getting the same way with increasingly unreliable Japanese cars.

 

I'd like a biodiesel reactor and an Alfa Romeo with the 5 pot JTD engine pls.

[purplebargeken]

I think that they are stunning cars and the colour on this one looks really 'wow'. 

 

Get it to a specialist and see what they say seems like sound and sensible advice. 

[MarvinsMom]

alfa's are great, when they are working....

 

i'm surprised though that no one has suggested using fire to fix this.

 

lovely, lovely fire.....

 

there are 2 choices here, get it fixed and then get rid, having dug down into your wallet.

 

alternatively just get rid now, and take a hit on whatever it is worth, assuming that the car still runs?

 

is taking the OMGEML out of the dashboard an option?

 

assuming that your mate likes the car then i would say fix it, and then run it until either it fails again in a catastrophic manner or until it falls to bits.

 

but that is cos i iz a mong......

[cort16]

They've all got the same problem these days the only difference is the attitude of the dealers, which in alfa's case is nearly non existent .

 

Swarf in the oil doesn't sound good. Get it to someone who knows them , pay for a couple of hours investigation and go from there. I don't think 600 is too bad tbh. That's probably a days labour plus the chain kit.

 

It took nearly 4 days labour to get my cortina through it's mot. Luckily I was paying 10 quid an hour !

[Pete-M]

I've had a few Alfas.

 

None of them ever broke down or failed to proceed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Both the 1.9 and 2.2 JTS (direct injection) units have timing chain troubles. The 2.2 is Vectra based and the 1.9 is a Fiat based lump. It is now EU law (and enforced by Brussels) that all petrol and diesel engines made since 2002 have shit timing chains that cause problems after some ludicrously low mileage. The engine light is coming on because the chain has stretched or one of the third rate Chinese made tensioners made from plastic that wouldn't pass as Lego has broken. This has thrown out the cam timing, the cam sensor has picked up on this and brought on the ELOD*

 

Because it's a 159 and thus quite a nice car and worth fuck all as a stretcher case, I'd pay an Alfa specialist 6-700 sheets to fix it.

 

Think back to the old Twin Spark engines in the 75, 164 and early 155. Cast from alloy, made with care and with a timing chain you could tow a tractor out of a ploughed field with. Modern cars really are shite in comparison.

 

 

 

*Engine light of death.

[stripped fred]

Where is he based? I use Intaservices in Leicester. They are good and will have a look over it and advise on the likely cost. They have a lot of experience with all Alfas. Ask for Dave.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

There is an excellent Alfa specialist in Mansfield, can't think of the name but they're in Huthwaite. They've done quite a few Brera / 159 2.2 chains.

 

 

Here they are:

 

 

http://www.alfatecnico.co.uk

[steve_earwig]

Have a pic, it's a pretty car

It's a left-hooker? And a 2.4...

 

I quite fancied an Alfa for a while, then I started hanging about on Alfa forums to see what goes wrong with them Run away!!

[cort16]

You could say that for any make . The 5 series forum is full if similar tales of woe.

[Rusty_Rocket]

Yeah, never go on a one-make forum before considering a new purchase, it'll only be full of bad experiences.  People don't tend to post much when the car is performing well.

 

I have had three Alfas.  I'm clearly an idiot because the cars always disappoint me.  They simply don't live up to the hype.  'Style over substance' etc etc etc

[New POD]

Whatever you do, don't fuck around trying to sell the salvage on Ebay.

[Pillock]

Must be reverse psychology, this thread is making me want an Alfa.

 

Actually I've been told that if I get my promotion it's not really "on" to keep my company car, I'm "meant to" take the cash alternative. I have no idea why, probably the same reason I'm expected to bin my uniform and splash out on special smart casual clothes that I'll never wear outside of work, because they're not t-shirts and shorts. Anyway, I digress. I bet work will be delighted* when I spend £4200 gross pa on a series of semi-kippered sub £700 cars with known design flaws. Alfa is top of the list really.