Kids these days...

[J-Rod]

Someone mentioned earlier how we should all be buying up as many 90s cars as we have storage room for, as they're [relatively] easy to fix when broke, compared to modern shite which... what with all their gimmicks and gadgets and such (you start to wonder what will constitute as an MOT failure in 10-15 years time). 

 

My first car was a K plate 106 when I was 18. Simple as hell, didn't need much doing to it, used to keep it tidy and try and get my head round the mechanicals of it. Whenever something did need doing to it, my dad would wade in and do it himself but would never explain exactly what he was doing, his reasoning being that "oh, you'll just be able to take it to a garage and they can do it," because he'd got heartily sick and tired of servicing cars himself (I should mention at this point that his old man was an engineer and would do things like not speak to him for a week if he snapped a spark-plug). I think he might have regretted his decision to not pass on the knowledge sometimes, as conversations about my latest motoring pursuit might have been a bit more interesting for him..!!

 

Anyway, all that said, because of my first car, I know my way around cars enough to know when a garage is trying to fob you off, what to keep an eye on, where to get sensible advice, etc etc. I think alot of that comes from starting off with a car where you could open the bonnet and see the engine (and also, had a manual choke!).  It makes me wonder whether kids who will be 18 in a few years time and getting their hands on their first motah will be allowed to take the same interest in what they're driving, when what they're driving has a nice big plastic cover over the engine and a whole myriad of electronic items, any of which might break and render the whole car useless (and all for want of a small component part). Will it, for them, be a case of 'Oh, it's not working, nevermind, throw it away, get another one?' 

 

I'm not saying that all innovation is bad but it seems (to me, anyway), that the current trend is to take the driver as far away from the mechanicals of a car as possible. How will this affect da kidz when it comes to knowing what an interference engine is and how this will affect when you change your cambelt, why an oil service isn't something to be ignored... and so on. 

 

I'm I just being horribly pessimistic, or will a lack of 'well loved' old cars lead to doomed youth? 

 

[dollywobbler]

Ignorance is hardly a new thing. 18 years ago I worked at a Nissan dealer and regularly had people coming in for parts who didn't even know how to open the bonnet and look up a chassis number. On a Nissan Bluebird.

 

About the same time, I remember a mechanic friend having to deal with a customer who complained that the windows kept freezing up despite him allegedly renewing the anti-freeze on the last service...

[DVee8]

No1 son who is 6 years from a driving lesson wants a proper mini or a beetle or something interesting from the 70's. No2 son 8years from a lesson wants a Vauxhall Adam.

No1 is interested in any thing with a engine and wheels. No2 could not care less about anything car related

[J-Rod]

I'm not talking so much about ignorance though, we can never get away from that..!! One of my other half's mates is a testament to that ("There's a bad wobble in the steering," "Really?" "Yeah, but it's fine if I keep it under 40, so I'll just do that,"...?!?) 

 

I'm talking more about the opportunity to learn unwittingly being removed.. 

[dollywobbler]

But it's an endless cycle. I'm sure folk in the 1930s were complaining about ignition timing that no longer needed adjusting on the fly, just as folk in the 1980s bemoaned fuel injection as absolutely impossible to do anything with (wrong). 

[UltraWomble]

Number one son had a Rover 25 blob but didnt like it - he now has the MicraShed (Mk 2)

I think he should keep it going as long as he possibly can, myself. I know the Fanny magnet wont last as long as the Micra has.

Mechanically quite straightforward and with loads of opportunity to learn how to weld.

[dieselassist]

the old man rang me up at the weekend there - collected his new Quashkai  Nissan whatever on Saturday - he was in a right panic - he could neither work the Bluetooth or operate the handbrake; "there isn't one in this yoke" he cried out (panic in stereo via the Bluetooth)...

...I told him to look for a button... "what does that button look like??"... dunno; didn't the give you a book??

[Junkman]

Kids have no interest in cars whatsoever. The only thing they are interested in is slouching on a sofa and thumbing around on some stupid shiny shit from China.

Let's bring back National Service, send them to one of those criminal wars that only make the ruling elite richer and have them machinegunned.

[Ghosty]

I'm 19, and I have every intention of buying a 'proper' car when funds permit.

[Bobthebeard]

Ignorance is hardly a new thing.

 

About the same time, I remember a mechanic friend having to deal with a customer who complained that the windows kept freezing up despite him allegedly renewing the anti-freeze on the last service...

Unbelievable, yet sadly true. An elderly lady known to my mother once complained of this very thing!

[dave21478]

As Junkman says, 97.3% of kids are only interested in how they plug their iphone into the stereo. Anything beyond putting fuel in - and I include checking tyre pressures and other very basic checks, is left to a garage.

IMO this is why so many modern-ish cars are in a hanging state and/or broken down at the roadside with relatively simple failures, because literally nothing gets done to it between services and a service is just a fucking expensive oil change and a load of tick-boxes checked off and nothing more. However people believe that a service or an MOT is some kind of full strip-down and rebuild.

[gordonbennet]

Phew, was dubious about opening this thread in case operation Yewtree was looking for customers, thankfully its about chod...breathes easy again.

 

Maybe the car savvy youngsters, having a better comprehension of computers than old farts like me who aint got a friggin clue, will be better at the more electronic stuff, i dunno.

 

I think where some of the younger drivers have missed out is that they had access to too much money, parents money that is, or easy credit etc, and they haven't needed in their youth to get down and dirty with old bangers to quite the same extent as those of us brought up to believe credit/loans were the work of satan, and lets be honest i bet many of us here like me had fuck all money for many years (not much different now), fixing my own wasn't an option, indeed i ended up fixing other's cars part time to feed and house my own family in time.

Easier then mind, in the days before H&S bollocks and claimsRus lawyers when you could visit the scrappies and dismantle cars piled three high, not a hi vis or hard hat to be seen.

There are some younger DIY mechanics out there who do their best, just not so many maybe as there were.

 

The best book i ever bought for explaining the basics of cars and maintaining them was the AA Book of the Car, circa late 70's early 80's, still around on the bay if you look,  worth buying one if you have a youngster likely to be interested in fixing their own, things like brakes and clutches etc haven't really changed that much and that book explains things so well.

 

As for driving competence i've seen youngsters in seriously expensive first cars, IMO far too much for them and not just cos they're spoiled, people don't appreciate what they've not had to graft for, but when their first cars stick like shit to a blanket and go like hell, then they don't go through the learning curve of keeping their older cars on the road without ABS or any of the myriad of three letter acronyms that control the car for them, they don't learn just how little grip there can be on a greasy road and i believe this leads to some of the high speed fatals that happen when physics eventually takes over.

Something to be said for learning to drive on more basic vehicles first.

 

Anecdotally, my son got into lorry driving about 10 years ago, started out on agency and after a couple of weeks got a call from him, Dad i'm in a Scammel Constructer 8 wheel tipper and its got an Eaton Twin Splitter gearbox, how the fuck do i work it.

I told him the basics and stressed to him to persevere and learn it, cos in fact he was lucky to have got one and most of his peers would never get the chance...sure enough he learned to drive it, from that moment no gearbox in the world would worry him ever again.

 

Same thing as with cars, it helps to drive and fix the basics first.

[mercrocker]

Yep ignorance requires no experience and recognises no age limit. There was a bloke not far off retirement age living in the same block of flats as me a few years ago. He had an Ambassador and reckoned it never needed anti freeze "cos I keep it in garage". So, you don't check or top up the coolant, then? He referred me to his original answer. This bloke was also convinced his T25 didn't have a battery because he never found it. Come to think of it he may just have been fucking stupid.

 

As regards kids today, not much experience but there are a couple of lads in the office who buy Vauxhall R-something or other and BMW 3 series and seem pretty clued up. Its the 30-somethings that I find have not got a clue/no interest.

[Junkman]

Its the 30-somethings that I find have not got a clue/no interest.

 

Let's have those machinegunned, too.

[J-Rod]

 

As for driving competence I've seen youngsters in seriously expensive first cars, 

 

 

Yeah, that's another matter. I remember someone saying to me not long after I passed my test 'drive something shite for a while and you'll appreciate moving on to something a bit nicer later on,'. They were right, too (though if someone offered me a 106 for not much cash, I'd probably consider it!!). I think the combination of being skint and appreciating wot yoo gots while young is a good one. 

[dave21478]

Let's have those machinegunned, too.

 

I like the cut of your job, sir. When I become Emperor, you will be my chief machine-gunner.

 

I suspect we will need a lot of bullets.

[Squire_Dawson]

Don't trust anything which does not have a carburettor and points ignition.

[sierraman]

There will always be old bangers, unless the government is going to bank roll everyone a free new car every 3 years. People find a way to keep them going. In any case, odd as it might sound cars are more reliable and last longer than ever. If we were having this conversation in 1985, we'd be on about having to have the engibe rebuilt on their 1979 Cortina as it had turned 100k or having the floors welded up on a 5 year old Astra.

[MrBiscuits]

These kind of skills are passed from father to son, I was lucky my Dad (by virtue of being skint I think) would literally tackle any job and I spent many happy Saturdays by the kerb watching and learning.

 

When my time came he'd always make me start off on my own then come and sort out my mistakes. These included such corkers as leaving the rotor arm out (why won't it start Dad?) and the time I thought it would be a good idea to dismantle an auto choke but didn't take note of where any of the springs and bits came from.

 

As for driving, my first car had four drum brakes and no servo (it was a mini - I'm not that old!). After a few very near misses that taught me something sadly rare now: anticipation....

[billyboy406v6]

I think that we live in a society that generally encourages a "when its broke get a new one",and sod trying to fix it mentality. So much for recycling and saving all the baby polar bears ?

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Had to assist some American tourists in a rental corsa the other day - turns out you can't remove the keys unless it's in Park and the handbrake applied.

 

There's something that definitely won't* break as soon as the warranty expires...

 

Stuff like this is GR8 when the car is fairly new, otherwise like the TOTALLY RELIABLE scenic electronic handbrake is just a headache waiting to happen

[Barry Cade]

Some young un's are better leaving things alone. Had a Corsa c in yesterday for it's test. Big rear spoiler  with dribbles of silicone down the hatch, LED bulbs everywhere, boom box in the boot wired with lawnmower cable and 4 manky steel wheels- you just know his 37 inch rims have 4 bald ditchfinders and will be going back on before my signature was dry. Anyway he was asking why it kept cutting out over speed bumps.... When I lifted the bonnet it became clear. A battery big enough to start a Scania had been slung in, and was arcing on the bonnet over every bump. A little knowledge can be dangerous...

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Some young un's are better leaving things alone. Had a Corsa c in yesterday for it's test. Big rear spoiler with dribbles of silicone down the hatch, LED bulbs everywhere, boom box in the boot wired with lawnmower cable and 4 manky steel wheels- you just know his 37 inch rims have 4 bald ditchfinders and will be going back on before my signature was dry. Anyway he was asking why it kept cutting out over speed bumps.... When I lifted the bonnet it became clear. A battery big enough to start a Scania had been slung in, and was arcing on the bonnet over every bump. A little knowledge can be dangerous...

Painful memories, brother in law bought a "well sick" corsa B years ago and asked me to go over it for MOT. Ended up offering to scrap it for him - my favourite bodge was the half house brick jammed behind the headlight as the brackets were fubared.

[captain_70s]

The thing is, buying a ratty 1974 Escort in 1982 for a pittance invariably meant you ended up with a 8 year old car that was rotten and probably mechanically tired despite having less than 100,000 miles on the clock. So you needed to fiddle with it out of necessity in order to have a functioning vehicle. Hardly a day goes by when I'm not under the bonnet of the 1300 faffing with the carbs, cleaning contacts fixing headlights in place with cardboard and bathroom sealant etc. My dad had a MK2 Ford Capri 1600 as his first car back in the early 80s and managed to get through three engines within a year of ownership!

 

To most people this is not an enjoyable experience and they'd much rather not have to lie under their car in the pouring rain and smack the starter motor with a large spanner in the hope that the bastard thing actually works... Hell, I wouldn't bother doing this crap if I wasn't so bloody poor! It's no longer required with a modern car and if something does go horribly wrong it's generally easier to just replace the whole car. Most youths don't have much interest in my motors, they are an oddity, a curiosity from a bygone age. Slow and ponderous to drive by modern standards (unless you're a maniac like me), requiring constant fettling, checking of fluids on a daily basis, you can't just got on auto-pilot while driving like you do in a modern car or they'll kill you exceptionally dead.

 

Of course there are people who are interested, people who have a had a shot at driving my cars and marvelled at how connected to the road you feel despite the comparable wayward steering and piss poor brakes. Even basic spannering can be satisfying but people don't really get the chance as it's no longer required. Those who are really interested in cars will learn the mechanics of cars, I knew fuck all about motors before I paid far too much money for a knackered Dolomite at age 20 and set about ruining it further, I learned out of necessity because it was that or have a broken car...

 

 

 

[cort16]

There has been and always will be stupid people. That will never change.

[New POD]

Because me and the wife own a mk1 mx5, I frequent a couple of forums, but only when I need help.

 

One of these is Mx5 Nutz.   It is frequented by people, mainly male, mainly between 18 and 30, and some of the stuff they do and know or can find out or fault find is amazing.

 

I also frequented a Bini Forum, where the usual response to requests for help, was "what did your dealer say?"  

 

My daughter aged 19 is not interested in anything to do with how the car works, and somehow thinks "that's a job for a man", despite the fact that her boyfriend who is a music student, knows nothing about anything other than music.

 

My son, who is 22, is  erm.  Very research biased.  So he'll clinically research Everything about any problem, before working out how he's going to prove or disprove a theory. Or if it's just basic maintenance he'll know the theory, and then jump in with both feet, and see how far he gets.

[Justin Case]

Hasn't it always been the same though. In my youth people of my age were buying things like new Fiat 127s and Minis on the drip, while old farts would sit in the corner of the pub, moaning in their beer that the youth of today couldn't use a starting handle to save their lives, and overhead cams were the invention of the devil because you couldn't adjust the tappets with only a feeler gauge and a fork, before driving off home in their side-valve Hillman Minxes, completely pissed.

 

In fact it probably goes back even further. No doubt young regency bucks were slagged off by their elders for leaping straight into a new landau pulled by a thoroughbred, instead of serving their time learning to drive on an old haywain drawn by a carthorse one MOT from the knackers yard.

[New POD]

These kind of skills are passed from father to son, I was lucky my Dad (by virtue of being skint I think) would literally tackle any job and I spent many happy Saturdays by the kerb watching and learning.

 

When my time came he'd always make me start off on my own then come and sort out my mistakes. These included such corkers as leaving the rotor arm out (why won't it start Dad?) and the time I thought it would be a good idea to dismantle an auto choke but didn't take note of where any of the springs and bits came from.

 

As for driving, my first car had four drum brakes and no servo (it was a mini - I'm not that old!). After a few very near misses that taught me something sadly rare now: anticipation....

 

 

The badly adjusted mini drum brake should have the award for :  the invention of the anti-lock brake. 

 

My dad knew feck all, and was the reason my spitfire engine failed. I blame him, because you do when you are 18.

 

We did the head gasket, and failed to change the cream / oil / emulsion, and the big ends failed.

[HH-R]

Deffo think it's worse nowadays. The rot was starting to creep in in the late 90s, but if you bought something basic/designed in the early 90s/late 80s then you could avoid most complex stuff like CANBUS and a little motor that pushes plastic flaps for the ventilation that snaps 3 days after the warranty has ended. Nowadays instead of having a socket set, it's "use special tool FU3K-U obtainable from you main dealer and use special pump 534564564A to perform this oil change". And don't forget to shut the car down properly electrically before changing the battery or it'll have a meltdown.

 

The chod I've had for the past few years is getting on now, and even though I've bought from the cheap/basic when new I've not been able to avoid camshaft sensors, CANBUS and all that crap.

 

I don't think 99% of people are bothered though, but not having an aux in for their iPod is well shit and a dealbreaker.

[UltraWomble]

Yeah, that's another matter. I remember someone saying to me not long after I passed my test 'drive something shite for a while and you'll appreciate moving on to something a bit nicer later on,'. They were right, too (though if someone offered me a 106  Austin 1300 for not much cash, I'd probably consider it!!). I think the combination of being skint and appreciating wot yoo gots while young is a good one. 

same but different