Event Shitefest 2015 5-7th June

[320touring]

I'm game for that. Remind me nearer the time and I will bring the appropriate tools and the car ramps

Can you buy 200l barrels of "gaun like fuck"?

[bub2006]

Are they as easy to tune as some folk say will?

[Coprolalia]

They are proper easy to tune.

You just wind out the fuel screw. Cue clagging fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfYnBs4-idg&feature=player_detailpage

 

 

A close mate had one with a trick intercooler and all sorts. Smoked like a banshee but went like sheeet of a shovel.

[twosmoke300]

Surely if its chucking out loads of black smoke it means its getting more fuel than it can burn therefore just wasting fuel . Obviously a bit on initial acceleration for enrichment but too much seems a bit silly.

[davidfowler2000]

Surely if its chucking out loads of black smoke it means its getting more fuel than it can burn therefore just wasting fuel . Obviously a bit on initial acceleration for enrichment but too much seems a bit silly.

 

Technically, yes. One way to sort it though - MOAR BOOST!

[320touring]

Technically, yes. One way to sort it though - MOAR BOOST!

Too much smoak is just enuf!

 

BOOOOOST!

[beko1987]

Im not after the same as the 205, I want some economy. Hopefully by then the bushes, tyres, brakes and exhaust are sorted, and itll be ready for a mild tune!

[320touring]

Im not after the same as the 205, I want some economy. Hopefully by then the bushes, tyres, brakes and exhaust are sorted, and itll be ready for a mild tune!

40mpg IS economy:)

 

And at 50p/l it is still oner 80mpg pump derv equiv

[explosive-cabbage]

Are they as easy to tune as some folk say will?

 

They certainly are! Just a few screws etc, but it depends how far you want to go with it!

 

 

Technically, yes. One way to sort it though - MOAR BOOST!

 

Correct!

 

40mpg IS economy:)

 

And at 50p/l it is still oner 80mpg pump derv equiv

 

You are right there. Who cares how much fuel you are vaporizing when it costs you bugger all?

 

I'm burning a gallon per 30 miles, on a good run. That's in an engine capable of 65mpg. I think that's what you call winning.

[bub2006]

That's Not too bad mpg considering its tuned and probably floored everywhere! My xsara is standard and only gets about 358/40 around town driven steady. Good lord I now want a diesel. I originally was looking for a diesel/auto and bought a manual petrol. What engine is in yours? I know it's a td but what car is it from?

[explosive-cabbage]

It is the same PSA XUD9 lump as in 306s, ZXs, etc etc etc etc, and about everything else PSA Diesel in the 90s.

 

 

• Auverland A3
• Citroën BX
• Citroën Visa
• Citroën C15
• Citroën ZX
• Citroën Xsara
• Citroën Berlingo
• Citroën Xantia
• Citroën XM
• Eurovan (PSA/Fiat joint venture) Sevel Nord
  • Citroën Evasion/Synergie/C8
  • Fiat Ulysse
  • Fiat Scudo
  • Peugeot 806/807
  • Lancia Zeta/Phedra
• Sevel Sud - Larger Panel Van PSA/Fiat Ducato joint venture
  • Citroën C25
  • Citroën Jumper (Relay in UK)
  • Peugeot J5 (Talbot Express in UK)
  • Peugeot Boxer
• FSO Polonez/Caro
• Honda Concerto (badge engineered Rover 200 diesel for European market)
• Lada Niva

• LDV 200/Pilot
• Peugeot 205
• Peugeot 305
• Peugeot 306
• Peugeot 309
• Peugeot 405
• Peugeot 406
• Peugeot 605
• Peugeot Expert
• Peugeot Partner
• Suzuki Baleno
• Suzuki Samurai
• Suzuki Vitara
• Talbot Horizon
• Toyota Corolla (pre-2001)
• Rover 200
• Rover 400

[skattrd]

You'll struggle to find an xud TD auto, and if you do you will have to be careful of tuning it as the gearbox might kerplode.

[skattrd]

Did the rover 200/400 have the xud lump?

I thought perkins/L-series.

[DodgyBastard]

FSO Caro's and the Tata Loadbeta use xud's too. I kinda wished I had taken the tata to shitefest just so we could have tuned it a bit for fun. It also runs well on veg so I could've bought some too.

[JohnK]

I think it was the old R8 shape Rovers that used the XUD if I remember. So 218/418 diesels.

 

The later bubble 200/ Civic 400 used the L-Series

[explosive-cabbage]

The FSO and the Tata would be fine on veg as long as they have the Bosch Pump.  I am not an expert on tuning Lucas pumps and not sure how close NA Bosch pumps are to the Bosch ones but if you do some research I'm sure it can be made to run on veg and be tuned up a bit!

[bub2006]

The manual box hasn't bothered my gammy leg like I thought it would have over the mileage I've covered. I'll wait for no claims to accrue and see what happens. Would still like an old cav 2.0 though but seem to be thin on ground for a decent one. FOAD,the tata would have been fun to see tweaked bombing up that hill!

[320touring]

The FSO and the Caro would be fine on veg as long as they have the Bosch Pump. I am not an expert on tuning Lucas pumps and not sure how close NA Bosch pumps are to the Bosch ones but if you do some research I'm sure it can be made to run on veg and be tuned up a bit!

From what I can remember on the VAG setups (aaz lumps with der german pump) only difference between n/a bosch and turbo bosch mech pumps is the boost pin for fuelling found on the top.

[DodgyBastard]

The FSO and the Caro would be fine on veg as long as they have the Bosch Pump.  I am not an expert on tuning Lucas pumps and not sure how close NA Bosch pumps are to the Bosch ones but if you do some research I'm sure it can be made to run on veg and be tuned up a bit!

I've been led to believe it's a bosch...

 

DSC_7399 by srblythe, on Flickr

[mat_the_cat]

/\ You're right, it is

[explosive-cabbage]

I've been led to believe it's a bosch...

 

DSC_7399 by srblythe, on Flickr

 

OOOOH Happy days, its a Bosch pump on the Turbo Diesel engine.

Should be more than happy running veg.

 

Easy to tune and something I am familiar with. We can easily tweak that one a bit!

[Coprolalia]

Question going begging.

 

Could the tuning bits of a 306 D-turbo motor/ 205 STDT etc be transplanted onto a Rover 218 fitted with an XUD9.

Would the fuel pump in the Rover take it?

Can I build a car that looks like grandma's interference parking runabout but can leave MrSmugAudi in a cloud of chip fat smoke?

[dollywobbler]

Question going begging.

 

Could the tuning bits of a 306 D-turbo motor/ 205 STDT etc be transplanted onto a Rover 218 fitted with an XUD9.

Would the fuel pump in the Rover take it?

Can I build a car that looks like grandma's interference parking runabout but can leave MrSmugAudi in a cloud of chip fat smoke?

 

AFAIK, the Rover had the XUD7 (turbo or non-turbo). 306 was XUD9, 205 was also XUD7. It's also my understanding that a lot of the tuning involves little more than increasing fuelling - hence quite smoky. I know a front-mounted intercooler is considered to make a difference. Can't say I'm very familiar with the Rover install.

[Richard]

I think the non-turbo Rover 218 got the 1905 engine. IIRC it is vertical in the Rover so you would probably have to swap the sump and oil pick up if you wanted to do a Full Cleland on one.

[Lacquer Peel]

FSO Caro's and the Tata Loadbeta use xud's too. I kinda wished I had taken the tata to shitefest just so we could have tuned it a bit for fun. It also runs well on veg so I could've bought some too.

 

The Tata engine isn't an XUD, I think it's an Indenor block with Tata's own OHC head.

 

I think the non-turbo Rover 218 got the 1905 engine. IIRC it is vertical in the Rover so you would probably have to swap the sump and oil pick up if you wanted to do a Full Cleland on one.

 

I had a Rover 218D, it did have an XUD9 (219D?). 218 TDs are fitted with the XUD7TE engine, always with a Lucas pump.

I'd love an R8 Tourer with a full fat XUD9TE.

[explosive-cabbage]

 

Question going begging.

Could the tuning bits of a 306 D-turbo motor/ 205 STDT etc be transplanted onto a Rover 218 fitted with an XUD9.
Would the fuel pump in the Rover take it?
Can I build a car that looks like grandma's interference parking runabout but can leave MrSmugAudi in a cloud of chip fat smoke?

 

 

I have a Rover 218 engine in the shed, it is definitely PSA XUD (not sure if it is a XUD7 or a XUD9) but with a few interesting extras,  It has at least a different design of oil cooler (a remote type rather than water to oil cooler) and has front mounted intercooler also. I think the thermostat housing/fuel filter housing is a different design also. Interestingly enough, the 218 engine I have (from a breaker, came free with the Niva) has the same fuel pre-heater mounted on the rear of the block as the XUD7s have, though it has little red caps suggesting it was never put into use when the car was put together.

 

This all makes very boring reading but in reality it means I can pinch the best bits from both engines to improve my own! ;D

I would imagine the Rover variant will have a diffterent engine code again to any installed in the Pug/Citroens, though still beginning in XUD9.... Perfect when you are looking for difficult to source parts!

 

The Tata engine isn't an XUD, I think it's an Indenor block with Tata's own OHC head.

 

 

My bad. One is always learning!

[Inspector Morose]

As I said at Shitefest and Mat the cat has done on his BX1.9TD the N/A cam is a longer duration than the one used on the T/D meaning valves open for longer, more air in so more smoke out!

 

Another tweak is to reduce the spring pressure on the boost control of the pump. This will effectively give higher fuelling earlier. The boost control needle under the diaphragm can also be turned/ground to give faster boost response by the pump.

 

A tweak more advanced also has an effect albeit a small one - pick up is slightly better but don't go too far as the raised combustion pressure could harm the head gasket. I've done this on my N/A because no turbo and I need all the help I can get!

 

Next on the list is supercharging instead of turbocharging. I've driven someone's 1.9 XUD supercharged (he rebuilt supercharger for a living and ran a 305 estate so equipped) it was fucking awesome! Power was instant and completely tractable without the smoke (well too much, anyway) a 1.6 mini unit overdriven would suit it well. All I need is somewhere to put the sodding thing in the engine bay.

 

Lastly, a trick I used whilst playing with leyland national engines which used to smoke like a good 'un on starting off. I used a number of reed valves on the intake as I argued that the turbo gave a restriction to the inlet before it was up to speed. The reed valves would allow extra air in to negate the restriction but when the turbo was boosting, the air pressure would keep them shut. It did work and smoke was reduced but experimentation moved on to other things before I could get conclusive proof.

[mat_the_cat]

The boost control needle under the diaphragm can also be turned/ground to give faster boost response by the pump.

 

I've turned the pin/needle round too - can't remember the angle but it was a lot of trial and error to get better power with reasonably acceptable smoke levels (it only heavily smokes when you floor it off boost). Wish I'd had access to a rolling road earlier though! I've also removed a plastic collar around the fuel control needle, as this was preventing it from rising up fully under boost.

[explosive-cabbage]

As I said at Shitefest and Mat the cat has done on his BX1.9TD the N/A cam is a longer duration than the one used on the T/D meaning valves open for longer, more air in so more smoke out!

 

Another tweak is to reduce the spring pressure on the boost control of the pump. This will effectively give higher fuelling earlier. The boost control needle under the diaphragm can also be turned/ground to give faster boost response by the pump.

 

A tweak more advanced also has an effect albeit a small one - pick up is slightly better but don't go too far as the raised combustion pressure could harm the head gasket. I've done this on my N/A because no turbo and I need all the help I can get!

 

Next on the list is supercharging instead of turbocharging. I've driven someone's 1.9 XUD supercharged (he rebuilt supercharger for a living and ran a 305 estate so equipped) it was fucking awesome! Power was instant and completely tractable without the smoke (well too much, anyway) a 1.6 mini unit overdriven would suit it well. All I need is somewhere to put the sodding thing in the engine bay.

 

Lastly, a trick I used whilst playing with leyland national engines which used to smoke like a good 'un on starting off. I used a number of reed valves on the intake as I argued that the turbo gave a restriction to the inlet before it was up to speed. The reed valves would allow extra air in to negate the restriction but when the turbo was boosting, the air pressure would keep them shut. It did work and smoke was reduced but experimentation moved on to other things before I could get conclusive proof.

 

 

I nearly wet myself when I read this post, its properly made me excited.

 

Everything you wrote is correct, never heard about reed valves before, it would be interesting to do some more research on that!

 

I am planning on supercharging the Niva Deisel, and would love to talk more to somebody who has made or driven a supercharged XUD. Most supercharging of XUDs I have heard of is compound turbo/supercharging which gives ridiculous boost and shit reliability. I have never heard of anyone ONLY supercharging an XUD but in reality it is the more sensible thing to do, and will certainly make an engine with loads of responsiveness and low down torque and power for towing and off roading.

I would love to know more about that supercharged XUD. You have PM.

 

Also cams, I have never heard of putting a N/A XUD cam in, are there any figures on the web or on any forums? Would love to know more.

 

 

I've turned the pin/needle round too - can't remember the angle but it was a lot of trial and error to get better power with reasonably acceptable smoke levels (it only heavily smokes when you floor it off boost). Wish I'd had access to a rolling road earlier though! I've also removed a plastic collar around the fuel control needle, as this was preventing it from rising up fully under boost.

 

Your doing it right! Get rid of the plastic collar, and turn the needle (LDA pin).

Plenty of easy guides on the 306 forums for anyone who wants to do it.

[Lacquer Peel]

Supercharged XUD = living the dream.

I wish my Volvo was fitted with a fully mechanical injection pump, I'm limited to chip tuning. Used to love playing about with turbo XUDs.