Privilege!!!! a great article about shiting

[320touring]

Who cares?

 

Its your money buy what you like:)

[alf892]

When I was younger I had to run bangers.........they weren't shite then. I had to because I didn't earn much and I had a mortgage. I was fairly fortunate in that I was/am a mechanic so had a good access to parts and cheap motors.

 

For many years I used to supplement my income operating as kerbside motors fixing stuff for people. A lot of these were shiters who just used me for stuff they could not or did not want to do. I would think nothing of getting home about 6pm, having dinner and then turning out to do a head gasket or clutch for someone.

 

I used to reckon cheap motoring was to buy the best I can and run it as long as possible - the last 3 (main daily) cars have done 10 years each. I am wary of doing this again though as I think there is an increased likelihood of something cropping up that I would need a computer to fix.

 

This fear may be due to be being older and a luddite. I kept a mk5 Cortina for years because I didn't want anything with electronic ignition or injection.

 

I still enjoy buggering about with older stuff but really don't want to work on anything because I HAVE to because I've got no other transport.

 

For a while my youngest daughter has been thinking about another car. He first car was (still is actually) a very reliable 1996 Corsa which she took over from her sister. Over the last couple of years she must have spend going on for 50 quid on repairs

 

Anyway she had just under 8k saved (saves £500/month. Lives at home obvs.........) and looked at a number of options. I didn't want her to 'risk' this cash on some late model ex company liability that I may have to fix and she wanted something modern.  

 

So she has gone for a pcp on a new car......2k down and 204/month for 3 years. She wasn't sold this by some sharp suited twat either. At the end of that she will get another if she can afford it or look for another Corsa B if she is up the duff/out of work/been evicted from home.

 

It is just a choice

[Craig the Princess]

The thought of having to find £200 a month on top of fuel and servicing scares me far more than a breakdown does. While that is a manageable amount(for me currently, that is privilege) if I was taken ill or lost my job I'd be up the creek within a couple of months. What are the penalties for giving a finance car or pcp car back? What happens if you crash it and you are third party only? Still paying a monthly some for a car you no longer have?

 

Basically credit(apart from a mortgage) scares me. I'm a big sissey.

[Mr Lobster]

I liked that article. Its based on the American car market and geography so isn't quite the same as here. But even so....

 

The vast majority of people in the UK just want cars that work. They don't want to know how to fix them, they don't own the tools to fix them, they don't have the skill set to allow them to fix them and don't have the facilities to fix them.  We, as shiters are looking at it differently from most people - we don't mind having to do a bit and fix the odd issue and by and large have the skills and tools to do it (to an extent anyway).

 

New cars are in general very reliable - yes some do break down but not that often. I spent ten years doing 50k a year in a variety of new cars incl Kia, VW, Renault, Fords (a lot of Fords...) Vauxhalls and loads besides and not once did I have a breakdown. A couple of punctures and the odd cracked screen but otherwise nothing. 

 

For someone who doesn't have the ability to fix anything on a car and has a very limited budget then something like a new Sandero at £150 deposit and £150 a month for four years is a lot better than a 'banger'. It gives them reliability and certainty from having a massive expense around the corner.

 

For my perspective I can run around in an older car knowing that if something breaks tomorrow and its £400 to fix then I can do it. Not everyone has that luxury. Similarly I don't have a boss who demands that I'm in a certain place at a certain time so whilst a breakdown would be inconvenient, thats all it would be. It wouldn't get me the sack.

 

I was lucky that when I was 18 I worked at a VW franchise and they required that everyone had a certain level of mechanical knowledge so I learned a good bit that way. Plus I was running older cars and fixing bits and bobs as required and I'm happy to have a go to a certain level. Against that, I couldn't tolerate something that was constantly breaking or spending what little free time I've got on fixing up some old shitbox.

 

You don't need to be rich to run an older car at all, but I'd say you do need a certain amount of 'Privilege' mentioned in the article be that a little mechanical knowledge, time, money, friends, equipment or whatever.  Otherwise a new car is probably your best bet.

 

[Richard]

I think it's a condition of the finance that you have comprehensive insurance as well as gap insurance to cover the difference between the car's value and what you owe.

[cort16]

Running old snotters is a liability if you've not got the time or ability to work on them yourself. I can find my way around a bit now but back in my mid 20's I had no money,  ability, no friends with ability and a very limited tool kit.

I missed dates, birthday parties, job interviews and got in trouble so many times for being late when something wouldn't start, conked out or a critical component fell off.

 

Just out of necessity (i couldn't afford to pay anyone) I changed a calliper and didn't bleed the brakes so coasted into the kerb on the other side of the road. I didn't know you had to do that. I switched a radiator on a Volvo 480 and the stress of needing to get it done for the weekend before Monday was massive. Even more so when it had an extra out put for an oil cooler or something and I had to cut a hole in the front panel with a fucking hacksaw blade and the mostly OAP's in the block of flats I lived in chucked me evils and puts notes through the door regarding the puddles of oil and rivers of coolant pissed out by my old crock.

 

 

I wasted so much money on those shite heaps as they blew up or ground to a halt. I recon if I could go back and pay 100 quid a month for a reliable car i'd do it. At least you can budget for it.

[cort16]

You don't need GAP infact there's so much red tape around dealerships offering or not offering you GAP that they can get fined loads of money if they don't document what they've done. To that ends a lot of them aren't even selling it anymore. It is useful though.

[sierraman]

I could only say for me personally I couldn't afford a new car so its either an old car or nothing. Fortunately I'm also tight so I enjoy the fact I've paid a 1/10th if the cars original price. The running costs are less whatever people say as it goes to a local garage if I couldn't repair it where they wouldn't be charging the ransom that the main dealer would. I'm also not paying for depreciation or hopelessly expensive finance.

[messerschmitt owner]

I've been at both ends of the car market and in the middle too.

 

When I was young I had four year old cars that four years later had been to the moon (at 40,000 miles a year) and I learned to do the basics on them - after al, oil changes every six weeks are expensive at the main dealer.  When I was older and worked in a shop, I bought cheap - it was what I could afford, and learned to maintain it. Now, I'm older and wiser and having bought three vehicles brand new on finance (a £2000 scooter, a £9000 sports car and a £45000 motorhome) I stick to shite. It's all paid for - and the only money I owe anyone is on my mortgage. I buy with cash or debit card and never on credit where I know I casn't afford to pay it back. That'a a choice. I have four taxed/ two Sorned and tested vehicles, still own two of the three I bought on finance and I know I could replace my six with a mere two  - one for me, one for Mrs MO, but I like the variety - even if one vehicle is essentially a spare so I can go work and make pennies to pay for it all if the main one breaks down. Maintenance and repairs seem to be reasonable, even if I shove the cars to the garage to get done, and I probaby still pay less a month than having two new cars on finance, expecially as the one I would need would cost the thick end of £25000-40000 new (large estate, big boot space). If I can't afford a repair one month, it genuinely waits for another month till I can, but that's the beauty of running six vehicles. VED probaby accounts for a month and a half's finance and extra insurance the same. That means I am probably still nine months ahead - and I have the asset to sell if I wanted to.

 

One beauty of well maintained and tidy shite is you rarely get less for it than you have paid for it - unless it has broken terminally. 

[mercrocker]

Running old snotters is a liability if you've not got the time or ability to work on them yourself. I can find my way around a bit now but back in my mid 20's I had no money,  ability, no friends with ability and a very limited tool kit.

I missed dates, birthday parties, job interviews and got in trouble so many times for being late when something wouldn't start, conked out or a critical component fell off.

 

Just out of necessity (i couldn't afford to pay anyone) I changed a calliper and didn't bleed the brakes so coasted into the kerb on the other side of the road. I didn't know you had to do that. I switched a radiator on a Volvo 480 and the stress of needing to get it done for the weekend before Monday was massive. Even more so when it had an extra out put for an oil cooler or something and I had to cut a hole in the front panel with a fucking hacksaw blade and the mostly OAP's in the block of flats I lived in chucked me evils and puts notes through the door regarding the puddles of oil and rivers of coolant pissed out by my old crock.

 

 

I wasted so much money on those shite heaps as they blew up or ground to a halt. I recon if I could go back and pay 100 quid a month for a reliable car i'd do it. At least you can budget for it.

 

Nothing else written in this thread so neatly sums up my early motoring life quite so much as this!

 

Memories of sending the first Mrs Rocker walking to a wedding (from the hard shoulder) whilst I ruined a suit tracing an ignition fault on the Zodiac.   Trying to re-fit the exhaust downpipes on the GSA after replacing the oil cooler (and that bastard was on finance....).    Having a double oil gauge feed and heater hose burst together over a girlfriends legs in a Mini.   Freezing to fucking death in a council carpark trying to get the drums off a Mk1 Cav because I had cocked up a brake adjuster.  Etc.Etc.   And, yes, the post-it notes in the communal hallway when I lived in flats.   Sadly, even financed 3 or 4 year old cars could still land you in this shit.   I learned from everything, though and this is the kind of shit kids today do miss out on.   There are blokes at work in their 20s who cannot change a wheel FFS

[cort16]

When the now Mrs C finished uni she got a job 120 miles away and moved home. It was crunch time for me I either stayed in my job and we split up or I moved and we moved in together. Given I worked in IT it was going to be easier for me get a job so I started applying. I got an interview for an IT support job in the NHS in Paisley. I drove up the night before in my ex-taxi 250,000 mile Nissan Bluebird and stayed at the future inlaws the night before so I was refreshed and all my clothes were ironed etc. I got maybe 10 miles into the 20 mile journey from the inlaws when the Bluebird started coughing and spluttering and eventually conked out. I managed to loosen the distributor and wiggle it around not before smashing my knuckles and burning my fingers. Eventually I got it going and turned up 10 minutes late with bloody knuckles, oil on my tie and oily shit smeared all over my face like I was about to go into combat.

 

I didn't get the job. That was one of my better cars too it only burn't a litre of oil a week.

[alf892]

Brainwashed drivel, the whole piece.

 

oh come on man.............

 

Man who cannot see that 'autoshite' can work for some = brainwashed fool

 

Man who cannot see that new works for some = brainwashed fool

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

How do I cope? I have four cars. Two are taxed, MOT'd and insured at any one time, one was £400 and the other £300. They have both needed spannering to keep good but it's a skill I learned/taught myself over the years rather than watching Towie or pissing my money up the wall on tattoos. I go to scrapyards regularly to stock up on cheap useful spares, many of which get sold on at a profit to fund my effectively free motoring.

 

Sadly the UK is full of mongs who, whilst having a decent job and an M Sport on finance, are just about capable of wiping their own arse but little else. Car maintenance is an important life skill, end of story.

[cort16]

I grease my trunions on a nightly basis.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Brainwashed drivel, the whole piece.

 

 

oh come on man.............

 

Man who cannot see that 'autoshite' can work for some = brainwashed fool

 

Man who cannot see that new works for some = brainwashed fool

 

I'm not sure 'brainwashed drivel' are quite the right words either; I'd describe the article as 'reductive nonsense'.

[John F]

That article is wank.

 

If my £400 car goes wrong, I'll firstly consider mending it using the skills I've picked up from a lifetime of tinkering. I didn't know much about spannering in the early days, and I didn't have a large collection of specialist tools, so my repairs were restricted to the sort of stuff I could do on the driveway with the tools that I had. If the repairs were too complex for me & my tools I'd have to ask mates for help (how did most of us learn how to wield spanners?), and if that didn't help I'd scrap the car. Over the years I've acquired more skills and better tools; this means I can do much more work on my old banger before it's destined for the bridge.

 

If the £400 car goes expensively and/or terminally wrong I'll either flog it for £200 as a project or weigh it in for £150.

 

And buy another £400 car.

 

Privilege? Piss off, septic.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

That article is wank.

 

If my £400 car goes wrong, I'll firstly consider mending it using the skills I've picked up from a lifetime of tinkering.

 

Privilege? Piss off, septic.

 

The fact that you can do it, thanks to your lifetime of of tinkering, is the privilege.

[John F]

Mr_Bo11ox, on 11 Feb 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

The fact that you can do it, thanks to your lifetime of of tinkering, is the privilege.

 

Why? If I'd spent the time I did tinkering with cars studying medicine, I'd be able to pay someone else to do my spannering.

 

It's not a privilege, just a life choice.

[alf892]

bloody good article if only to learn RFN........and it has livened this place up a bit!

[John F]

alf892, on 11 Feb 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

bloody good article if only to learn RFN........and it has livened this place up a bit!

 

Not as much as a debate about religion or a badly-drawn cock on a toilet door though...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 this is the kind of shit kids today do miss out on.   There are blokes at work in their 20s who cannot change a wheel FFS

 

 

Absolutely bang on. My nephew is 15 and whilst he is polite, well brought up and clever, he just wants to play video games all day. I can't interest him on a day at U Pull It. Another mate has a lad the same age (well, 14) who is about as much use as tits on a bull. He grunts at you, eats in restaurants with his mouth open for the full cement mixer effect and that's when he's not playing games ion his phone, in a fucking restaurant. His old man sees nothing wrong with this. When I was 14 you couldn't keep me OUT of scrapyards. The owners of the two I went to at weekends (after cycling 5-10 miles) gave up telling me to fuck off and left me to it. My Dad had a very well paid job and had nice cars, and never took any of them to a garage - did it all himself. Clutches, head gaskets? Haynes manual and a tool kit, crack on but of course a Capri 2000 head gasket is a lot easier than a 2.0d Insignia.

 

There's a bird near here who has a trendy boyfriend with one of those fucking ridiculous hipster beards, about 25 ish. He was attempting to change a wheel on her Fiesta and making a balls of it. My mate was laughing and offered to help.  She refused this because her strapping 5"9 lumberjack style hunk was of course far tougher than a 6"3 ex Paratrooper who could probably get the wheel nuts off with his teeth. 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

All I'm sayin, and all he's saying, is that you need certain 'attributes' if you are going to live the shite life, including, as you rightly point out, some tools and some experience and a small amount of 'spare cash' for unexpected eventualities. Not everyone has that and therefore some folk are not able to escape the 'straitjacket' of driving dull moderns paid for with a monthly instalment. I can very well see why a youngster might get a new or nearly new Skoda Citigo or Toyota Aygo or whatever for a few hundred quid a month or less - for a fixed fee they will be able to basically forget about everything other than getting in and driving. But they will be stuck with that kind of motoring forever most likely.

 

He's just pointing out some things that almost all shiters take for granted that allow us to live the shite lifestyle - I am very glad that i am able to and feel privileged (or lucky) that i am able to look after my own motoring needs and drive 20k per year in interesting cheap old depreciation-free snotters.

[sierraman]

My wife thinks I've got better things to do than do stuff like changing thermostats. I'm sure she would still agree if I didn't bother and we were sat at the side if the M5, smoke billowing out of the car after its overheated.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Why? If I'd spent the time I did tinkering with cars studying medicine, I'd be able to pay someone else to do my spannering.

 

It's not a privilege, just a life choice.

 

All I'm sayin, and all he's saying, is that you need certain 'attributes' if you are going to live the shite life, including, as you rightly point out, some tools and some experience and a small amount of 'spare cash' for unexpected eventualities. Not everyone has that and therefore some folk are not able to escape the 'straitjacket' of driving dull moderns paid for with a monthly instalment. I can very well see why a youngster might get a new or nearly new Skoda Citigo or Toyota Aygo or whatever for a few hundred quid a month or less - for a fixed fee they will be able to basically forget about everything other than getting in and driving. But they will be stuck with that kind of motoring forever most likely.

 

He's just pointing out some things that almost all shiters take for granted that allow us to live the shite lifestyle - I am very glad that i am able to and feel privileged (or lucky) that i am able to look after my own motoring needs and drive 20k per year in interesting cheap old depreciation-free snotters.

 

 

Read my reply above Sir. Car maintenance (not major repairs) is a life skill. You learn how to change a wheel, remove and charge a battery, change the oil, fit a set of pads. It's so bloody easy, anyone can do it. Sadly over the past 20 years folk have become bone idle and cannot be arsed. That's the problem, and it's part of the reason some cunt drove a low mileage but running 1995 Corsa in a scrapyard last week. 

 

The root causes?

 

It's old = it's shit.

I can't be bothered.

I'd rather watch X Factor that check the oil. coolant and tyre pressures.

I'd rather spunk £2000 a year on a new car than spend £400 a year on servicing.

I'm bone idle and have had it too easy for most of my life. That's why I'm useless and have no choice but to keep paying for a PCP.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

No, you're wrong, theres far more to it that that. You're taking it for granted which we all do and why the article is a good one (IMO).

[Norbert]

Enjoyed reading that article, and once you realise that it's for a very different motoring landscape to the UK (more expensive used cars, easier to finance a new one, much less ability to use public transport as a backup) there are some very valid points.

 

It's true that we as a group have a mindset, and in most cases a set of abilities that allow us to run older stuff with a degree of confidence that it'll do the job, and the ability to sort it when it doesn't. There are certain *actual* privileges - in my case, the space to store a back-up car on the drive and money to tax and insure it (hence giving me the ultimate in 'Home Start' protection), but the biggest privilege is the ability not to be scared of cars when they start to go wrong.

 

I generally only do stuff that wouldn't feature in most people's News 24 posts - plug/lead/coil pack changes, cooling system stuff (new rad, new header tank), wheel changes, oil, filters, the odd sensor etc etc) but that's more than I've ever seen anyone else on my street do, in fact I get snooty comments from the VAG-on-finance lot next door about turning the place into a scrapyard if they go past while I've got the bonnet up, even though I might be doing a job like topping up with screen wash. Most people are so stressed and scared of breakdowns that shiting would simply do their heads in, and it's this attitude we have to thank for decent motors costing peanuts in the UK.

 

I totally agree that the only valid options are new or shite - the former option means if it goes wrong you call a dealer and it all gets taken care of - in theory anyway, while the latter option means if it all goes wrong you have a go with a socket set and a HBoL, and if that fails you call Cartakeback and in the meantime see what else is for sale.

 

Where I WOULDN'T want to be is in the middle - paying £8k for a car just out of warranty and having to pay ££££ for all the stuff - particularly stuff to optimise emissions and economy when new that isn't really designed to last on modern cars - to be fixed lest you lose your initial 'investment' really *is* a rich man's game.

[Vin]

All I'm sayin, and all he's saying, is that you need certain 'attributes' if you are going to live the shite life, including, as you rightly point out, some tools and some experience and a small amount of 'spare cash' for unexpected eventualities. Not everyone has that and therefore some folk are not able to escape the 'straitjacket' of driving dull moderns paid for with a monthly instalment. I can very well see why a youngster might get a new or nearly new Skoda Citigo or Toyota Aygo or whatever for a few hundred quid a month or less - for a fixed fee they will be able to basically forget about everything other than getting in and driving. But they will be stuck with that kind of motoring forever most likely.

 

He's just pointing out some things that almost all shiters take for granted that allow us to live the shite lifestyle - I am very glad that i am able to and feel privileged (or lucky) that i am able to look after my own motoring needs and drive 20k per year in interesting cheap old depreciation-free snotters.

 

I agree it is a good article and the points made are valid, but I can't get my head round the use of the word 'privilege'.

 

Why should you feel priveleged?? you'll have worked hard and gone out of your way to learn about these things to get you in this position. It's not just been given to you for nothing, it's not been bestowed it upon you from childbirth...

 

Part of me just sees it as a way for society to excuse certain individuals shortcomings. Person A can fix old shitters and person B can't. This means person A is 'privileged' and thus should feel sorry for person B... No it doesn't. It means person B has no interest, or won't or can't be bothered to learn...

 

IMO To pass it off as privilege demeans the effort taken to learn these skills.

 

I also had to look up what 'cisgender' meant...

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Good point about 'privilege' the Cololnial cast offs probably don't have the class connotations towards that word that we do, perhaps plain good luck or fortune would be a more British way of describing those that are able to exercise free choice in their method of spunking whatever cash they have available on cars.

[alf892]

Not as much as a debate about religion or a badly-drawn cock on a toilet door though...

True but I think it is shite's closeness to religion that is keeping it going.

[320touring]

A colleague at work has managed to change the heater resistor and pollen filter on her 2007 zafira after ictold her the parts to buy.

 

I've now discussed brake replacement with her so she feels she can tackle it when needed:)

 

Best of both worlds for her-moder reliable* car and ability to do some work yourself