Six Cylinders Motoring Notes

[Six-cylinder]

That 330Ci looks so right..lovely car.

 

Mrs6C choice, I prefer the E36.

[SiC]

If you had to get rid of your whole fleet but could keep only one car each, what would it be?

[Six-cylinder]

Been years since I last had a car that cared about the engine being wet...that was an L plate Fiesta...and a new set of HT leads resolved that!

 

If it's that sensitive to damp I reckon the ignition system could do with some TLC.

 

My Mercedes 1994 500SEC had condensation in both HT caps at least that is what the AA man said.

 

The ignition stuff on the E30 is only a couple of years old but the whole engine was afloat with condensation.

[Six-cylinder]

If you had to get rid of your whole fleet but could keep only one car each, what would it be?

 

The question is too hard!

[Six-cylinder]

Does anybody have a wiring diagram for a Citroen C15 van?

 

The year is 2000 and I have found a wiring diagram for an early C15D, but it says there are two number plate lights powered from the left side tail light and I only have one bulb holder on the right door.

 

The problem with the rear lights on my C15 van are the right hand drivers side tail light and number plate light don't work. I have checked the bulbs and for corrosion in the bulb holders.

 

The left side tail and brake light did not work either but that turned out to be the bulb.

[hairnet]

frag.

 

buy transit courier on pcp

[Six-cylinder]

frag.

 

buy transit courier on pcp

 

Wash your mouth out with soap and water!

 

Pcp for 1,000 miles a year please!

[Mrs6C]

Wash your mouth out with soap and water!

 

Twice!

[Six-cylinder]

It is great having a Grandson, you have to test the equipment!

[Six-cylinder]

Fridays fixing update.

 

Range Rover had a broken suspension hight position sensor. The bit of plastic the metal rod goes into had broken and has been replaced by my favourite garage so full air suspension is returned. I also had the MOT done at the same time.

 

Our C15 now has a full compliment of lights that turned out to be three things. A blown n-s stop/tail bulb, a loose connection to the o-s front parking light/tail light/ number plate fuse and a dirty connection on the o-s front parking light. All my own work this time.

 

The red CX continues to be a problem, just fiddling seems to have returned the fuel pump to life but there is no electric signal going to the injectors. There is some crispy wire behind the engine and then of coarse the ECU ???. This will have to wait for the new year .

[Skizzer]

That's a lovely looking CX you've got there. Posh one too, if it's got injectors and an ECU...?

[richardmorris]

That's a lovely looking CX you've got there. Posh one too, if it's got injectors and an ECU...?

 

Posh is overrated in CX Ecu stakes. It usually means not available! Does this one have a single crank (hall) sensor ?

[Six-cylinder]

Posh is overrated in CX Ecu stakes. It usually means not available! Does this one have a single crank (hall) sensor ?

 

It is driving me mad and the second auto electrician does not seem to have a handle on it.

 

Ignition has a distributor and no ECU.

 

The injection seems to be triggered by the coil/ignition module.

[richardmorris]

It is driving me mad and the second auto electrician does not seem to have a handle on it.

 

Ignition has a distributor and no ECU.

 

The injection seems to be triggered by the coil/ignition module.

 

Have you given Stan platts a call? He was very helpful when my DTR fans didn’t work. Knew it all from memory and talked me through it on speaker phone in the drive.

[Six-cylinder]

Have you given Stan platts a call? He was very helpful when my DTR fans didn’t work. Knew it all from memory and talked me through it on speaker phone in the drive.

Trouble is, it is the Auto electrician who needs to talk to somebody who knows, this goes beyond my tinkering abilities.

[richardmorris]

Trouble is, it is the Auto electrician who needs to talk to somebody who knows, this goes beyond my tinkering abilities.

I know some don’t get on with him ( to put it mildly!), but I’m sure if you called and explained he’d be able to help your sparky.

[Zelandeth]

I'm no stranger to electronics.  Have you got a set of wiring diagrams for the ignition system to hand I could have a look at?  If I can get my head around it I'd be willing to take a look and see if I can suggest anything.

 

Doesn't look like I'm a million miles away either.  Us lot crazy enough to like Citroens need to stick together!

[Six-cylinder]

I'm no stranger to electronics.  Have you got a set of wiring diagrams for the ignition system to hand I could have a look at?  If I can get my head around it I'd be willing to take a look and see if I can suggest anything.

 

Doesn't look like I'm a million miles away either.  Us lot crazy enough to like Citroens need to stick together!

 

Thanks, I left the wiring diagram in the car and I am 3 miles one side of Buckingham and the car the other so when this Christmas stuff is over I will go and get it and scan it for you to have a look at.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

How do you know the injectors aren't pulsing? Is it a Jetronic set-up?

[Six-cylinder]

How do you know the injectors aren't pulsing? Is it a Jetronic set-up?

 

The auto electrician bought along a oscilloscope thing.

 

L Jetronic.

[Zelandeth]

Right, L Jetronic gives me a place to start at least.  Just need to read up on the principle of operation as much as anything so I've got a hope in hell of working out why it's misbehaving.  Pretty basic setup though so hopefully shouldn't be too hard to troubleshoot a fundamental fault like this.  Better than the last injection gremlin I was hunting which helpfully only appeared above 65mph.

 

Guessing the basic routine will be...

 

1. Figure out where the injector timing pulses are derived from.

2. Check that the signal here is present.

3. Check it's getting to the ECU connector.

4. Check whether injector pulses are being sent by the ECU.

5. Check whether the pulses are present at the fuel rail - which we already know they're not.

 

That should pretty quickly narrow things down to a sensor, ECU or wiring fault.

 

...or the car will spring to life when you turn up fully armed to investigate and stubbornly refuse to present the fault again!

[Six-cylinder]

The auto electrician said the trigger is from the coil/module.

 

The auto electrician said the wire between the coil and the ECU had continuity, but I can't remember if he said there was a trigger pulse. The ECU is located under the dash on the drivers side and is difficult to get too. I asked for the ECU part number but he could not read it without removing it, which involves a lot of dismantling of the dash etc. Getting to the ECU means standing on your head in the footwell.

 

I found this manual on line,  injection cars wiring seems to start page 338.

 

http://www.citrina.lt/failai/tech/_cx/Manual/CX_11.pdf

[Skizzer]

Come back carbs, all is forgiven. Engine swap with SiC's MGB?

[Six-cylinder]

Come back carbs, all is forgiven. Engine swap with SiC's MGB?

 

My carburettor Gamma has an on load misfire we are struggling with!

[SiC]

Give me an electrical fault anyday over carbs!

[Six-cylinder]

My MGB GT over a period of months developed  poor running, poor starting and eventually refused to start. Mrs6C having to tow me back from Silverstone with the Volvo XC70. All test gave strange results and that turned out to be the engine earth strap, not broken just corrosion.  

[Zelandeth]

This is where having two people comes in handy as one can be standing on their head with the meter or scope while you crank it etc.

 

Shouldn't take a huge amount of effort to at least pin down which of the basic blocks involved is responsible.

 

"It won't go" is far easier to troubleshoot to be honest than "it runs poorly"

 

...unlike modern injection setups where you've got CANbus, immobilisers and goodness knows what else involved!

[SiC]

My MGB GT over a period of months developed poor running, poor starting and eventually refused to start. Mrs6C having to tow me back from Silverstone with the Volvo XC70. All test gave strange results and that turned out to be the engine earth strap, not broken just corrosion.

Good mention. I've been meaning to do this for ages and carbs out makes it much easier.

 

 

 

Two earth's are better than one, right?

[Six-cylinder]

Two earth's are better than one, right?

 

I have one each side now!

[Six-cylinder]

This is where having two people comes in handy as one can be standing on their head with the meter or scope while you crank it etc.

 

Shouldn't take a huge amount of effort to at least pin down which of the basic blocks involved is responsible.

 

"It won't go" is far easier to troubleshoot to be honest than "it runs poorly"

 

...unlike modern injection setups where you've got CANbus, immobilisers and goodness knows what else involved!

 

The back history is the car had a habit of not starting for a couple of years if left for weeks, but a quick wiggle of the wiring behind the battery turned it back into a good starter. Then one spring no amount of wiggling would start it and after a lot of cranking it burst into flames! I understand why now as the cold start injector spays petrol though the manifold when the engine is being cranked so it must have been afloat with fuel. I have replaced the obviously burnt HT leads but it seems their may be some damaged wires on the back of the engine. Remember the car would not start before the fire. After the fire the coil was diagnosed as not working and has been replaced after several years looking for one with one from Holland this year.

 

I have had it 11 years and I am quite patient with my cars as I am in the privileged position of not needing it for work Monday morning but I am beginning to wonder if it is worth it.