C-max TDCi Failure to start - any ideas

[Stroller133]

My Wife's C-max failed to start 2 times in December before Christmas - both times a jump or battery charge sorted it out.  On Monday went to start it again after leaving I for 2 days. I have charged it up a bit yesterday and it turned over and appeared to be starting but failed to run (maybe ran for a second). 

 

Bit the bullet today and bought a new battery, but the problem remains, except now I can keep trying several times without the battery draining after 3/4 attempts.  The car appears to have started for less than a second, then just stops.  Throttle position or keeping cranking the starter make no difference.

 

I have accessed some diagnostic data through the dashboard bringing back 2 codes 9600 & 9602 that relate to PATS (anti theft) these could just be due to removal of the battery though or could there be a problem with the immobiliser? My plan to look at fuses tomorrow and check the voltage of the new battery.

 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[ruffgeezer]

is it a 1.4 or 1.6 diesel? Have you tried pumping the primer bulb to see if it starts?

[Stroller133]

Its a 2.0TDCi engine - I think the same unit is used in Volvo, Citroens and Peugeots and maybe some others too - could this have a priming bulb?

[trigger]

When mine did that it was the fuel pump and it cost me £500. It's also the same engine, the starter motor was compensating for the change in fuel pressure and was working harder so was drawing up more current.

[Lacquer Peel]

What is point modern diesels.

[eddyramrod]

It's modern and diesel, there's no hope for it.  Get rid quick.

[beko1987]

Sounds expensive, good luck!

[Stroller133]

I actually like this car and don't know what we will replace it with when the time comes (might be tomorrow). We have done 85k in 6 years with just an alternator failure and an EGR fault, so done ok in my view.

[RichL]

Lad at work had similar issues with his 54 plate S40 2.0D. New starter motor cured it.

[saucedoctor]

"Smart" charging (if fitted to this individual car) can be an absolute bastardy cunt-chops.Loads of spurious error messages on the dashboard as well as not starting. New battery and alternator sorted out my mate's old car. Near 500 sheets for the parts!

 

Also check for: water in the fuel filter/tank, poor earth under the battery, and shite in the EGR (there's a modded one depending on you car's build date).

[Stroller133]

The EGR is already blanked off on this car, luckily no DPF was fitted on this as it was an optional extra at the time. Might buy myself a Fault Code Reader and try clearing all faults - a similar fault was cured on a another website by doing this. I realise I'm being eternally optimistic with this and will have to book it into local garage next week as we cant be without the car for long.

[the judge]

Clear codes and try a tow start. That will rule out major volt drop/bad starter motor. If it goes easy,out with starter. If still no play.....oh shit..

[panhard65]

When mine did that it was the fuel pump and it cost me £500. It's also the same engine, the starter motor was compensating for the change in fuel pressure and was working harder so was drawing up more current.

This is your most likely answer. You will need a scanner to check the fuel pressure though. Also have a look in the fuel filter for metal particals. If you change the filter you will need to put an inline primer to prime it up first. They really should of put an electric lift pump on these as the engine driven pump seems to be made of cheese and can't cope with the cranking.

[Guest Lord Sward]

Isn't usually a leak-off issue on an injector or two?

 

When these start to give starting issues, the DMF takes the strain and starts to break-up, taking the clutch with it. 

 

Is there any merit to a modern diesel?

[Bren]

Isn't usually a leak-off issue on an injector or two?

 

When these start to give starting issues, the DMF takes the strain and starts to break-up, taking the clutch with it. 

 

Is there any merit to a modern diesel?

No - when they break they can be fixed with fire.

[Guest Lord Sward]

Just wait until DPFs are in the realm of 'Shitters.   Then we'll all know just how bad these things are.  Already a HGF failure means a scrapped head if you are lucky or a new engine if you aren't.  

[trigger]

Let me start the new Autoshite Cyber shorthand "OMGDPFF" I give it 5 years before that one kicks off.

[Asimo]

Clear codes and try a tow start. That will rule out major volt drop/bad starter motor. If it goes easy,out with starter. If still no play.....oh shit..

Will these tow start? I ask because I found that a hired Mondeo Diesel would not bump start even at 60mph - rolling down hill in the Alps. It could only be started with the starter. A stupid feature if ever there was one.

[Guest Lord Sward]

I've bump* started a Focus TDCi before.  

 

*dragged the thing down the road with a LandRover for a few miles until successful.

[Barry Cade]

Not a good idea with a DMF- I've seen them expire due to the sudden shock in in too low a gear. Best do it in 5th at a higher speed and release clutch gently. Check for an air leak at the filter, these truly are a ba****** to start after a service sometimes. Unplug the 3 wire plug off the alternator, this disables the smart charge bollocks, and try that. The faintest whiff of easy start may help in your diagnosis.

[Stroller133]

Not much progress to report I'm afraid - went out to get a code reader only to find it was not stocked, despite an online stock checker saying it was available.

 

One slightly odd thing is that the radio code did not need entering after battery was changed, which I was expecting.

 

Its going to have to go to a garage Monday (somehow) as I have very little skills/tools/time to do anything.  Didn't even get very far with the fuses as the guide should be on a panel under glove box that is missing!

[Guest Lord Sward]

 

One slightly odd thing is that the radio code did not need entering after battery was changed, which I was expecting.

 

The supplying dealer mustn't have coded it correctly.

[Stroller133]

There is an in dash voltage meter that even with old battery was reading 12.8v but when turned over fell to about 8v. The new one is only 11.8v and falls to about 9.6v when turning over. Could the new battery benefit from charging? I know a proper meter would be better but in my desk at work. I've disconnected battery to try and clear any faiult codes and put the new battery, I've tried several times now and obviously battery is not getting any charge. Could a voltage lower than 10v stop it starting?

[Stroller133]

Charged the battery for an hour and cranked it solid for about 20 seconds and it went. What a relief, avoided an unwelcome bill at the start of the year!

Still almost £90 down for battery, but think that was needed anyway, more than 2 attempts at starting and it was dead.

[twosmoke300]

I hope it was a calcium battery . smart charge fords need em for the system to work correctly .

[Stroller133]

I think so, it's a Bosch S4.

[twosmoke300]

Yeh most better quality batteries are calcium these days