Wandering 405

[The Moog]

So the pug has taken to wandering on the motorway.

 

So far I have

 

Checked tyre pressures (all bob on)

Checked tyres (dunnlop winters with mega amounts of tread on the.)

Changed track rod ends (massively floppy)

Got tracking done

Changed 1 ball joint which had a little play in it (got the other one to do but no real play in it)

Checked drop links (both ok)

 

Its a mix of sometimes it feels like torque steer pulling to the right, other times like tram lining.

 

I have got to do about 1k miles in next week and at the moment I dont trust the car.

 

I have to be at a funeral Friday in Scotland so need to fix it asap.

 

What else could it be/can I test?

[bigfella2]

Would a tired rear axle do this, just a guess.

[Craig the Princess]

You can borrow the Saab if you can't get it ready. Just needs taxing.

[HMC]

Worn steering rack?

[Asimo]

another vote for a rear axle problem

[Craig the Princess]

Hasn't this recently had a replacement rear axle?

[The Moog]

It has had a refurb axle fitted a month ago. The rear sub frame bushes are worn as they were squeaking and I have a set to replace them with.

 

 

 

Thanks for offer Craig but got two big dogs to take with us. Might squeeze them into the civic 😊

[dollywobbler]

What sort of a joint do these have between steering column and rack? On BXs (and XMs) it's a rubber joint, which can perish - leading to odd steering. I've no idea if they can fail completely but I think I might check on my XM now having thought about it!

[daverapid]

Check those Dunlop tyres carefully, they are notorious for going out of shape long before they wear out and causing wandering symptoms.

[The Moog]

Well update

 

Tried changing rear sub frame bushes but the rear left one i cant get a spanner or socket on the nut. So gave that up as a bad job

 

Found the exhaust has rusted through just before rear box.

 

Then tried to change drivers side ball joint but it isn't moving. Managed to break my impact wrench. Will need to find a fuck off scaffold pole and a helper. It looks older than passenger one so I think it has been in for a while

[Lacquer Peel]

Wishbone bushes, I reckon.

[jonathan_dyane]

+1 on wishbone bushes I'm afraid.

[The Moog]

Are these separate or is it easier to change the whole wishbone?

[dollywobbler]

Again, I'm quoting BX, but it was cheaper and easier to replace the entire wishbone - and not that expensive either. Sure, cheap bushes may not last all that long, but it would at least be better than before. Problem is, there are many things that cause this, and just endlessly replacing bits is going to be an expensive cure.

[Lacquer Peel]

The wishbones complete with bushes are quite expensive, the bushes alone aren't. Shiter's option: remove the wishbone, hacksaw the old bushes out, and ask a friendly garage to press new bushes in.

 

DW makes a good point about fault finding through replacing parts, that can make you resent a car quickly, but if the wishbone bushes are that bad play will be evident with the wheel in the air.

[The Moog]

I used a pry bar on the wishbones and couldn't see anything obvious. Will have a look again on Thursday.

 

Both the ball joints and both track rod ends needed changing so that is not a concern. Wishbones are £90 for the pair from ecp.

 

Fair point on swapping things. Mojo has disappeared at the moment.

 

Tempted to phone the local pug guy and see if he can squeeze me in before Friday. Then he can do the ball joint, rear sub frame bushes and identify the wandering. He is only £35 an hour so not mad expensive.

 

Thanks for all advice.

[bigstraight6]

I had the same symptoms on my Ovlov S60 and it was kippered wishbone bushes.......

[The Moog]

Booked into pug garage tomorrow. Bushes have been ordered today so he is going to change bushes, do the one cv joint and also if he has time he will change rear sub frame bushes

 

In theory it should all be finished by 5pm tomorrow.

 

Car is slowly becoming triggers broom.😃

[mouseflakes]

What sort of a joint do these have between steering column and rack? On BXs (and XMs) it's a rubber joint, which can perish - leading to odd steering. I've no idea if they can fail completely but I think I might check on my XM now having thought about it!

Old Renners used to have a simple universal joint in the column (steel block with rubber bushes at right-angles to each other). I once drove an R5 where the rubber bushes were badly worn. The wandering effect was terrifying. I took the car home and repaired it for the owner - aren't I kind?

 

Worth checking the column for such a thang as DW says.

[Junkman]

The 405 steering column only has a universal joint. If this is worn, it should be easily noticeable, so I doubt it is faulty.

[406V6]

I drove the 406 on an old concrete part of the southern M25 last Saturday and it gave the same symptoms that you describe. Sorry if this is a stupid question but are you sure it's the car and not at least partly due to the road surface ?  It was fine on other parts of the same road though.

[The Moog]

No stupid questions, but did it on all kinds of road. Would have been nice easy answer otherwise 😊

[explosive-cabbage]

My 205 used to do this and it will be the same suspension set-up at the front end.

 

Did the garage do the tracking before or after you changed the track rod ends?

 

And did you watch them do it and ask for or provide numbers for toe in/out? 

 

I have heard on here of garages charging for tracking as part of a service not actually checking the tracking.

 

The 205 used to leap from side to side whilst accelerating uphill, and I solved the problem by turning the track rod end on one side out by one or two complete turns. 

 

Poor tracking can be diagnosed on McPherson Pugs by closely inspecting the tyre and looking for 'quiffs' or 'feathering' of rubber on the side edge of the tread blocks, caused by rubber being pushed or smudged sideways off the tread block. It may take a few hundred miles to become evident, it is difficult to describe and I cannot find a good picture on Google images. The quiffs or feathering usually will stand upright off the tyre when parked. 

You will know exactly what I am talking about if you see or feel them!

[the judge]

Agreed^^^^. Worn track ends the clue. Tracking not done right by the sounds of it. Can happen sometimes,happened to me,still dont know how i went so wrong with the lasertrac. Poss operator error

[The Moog]

I changed the track rod ends myself then took it to kwikfit. They had a new funky monitor in the weighting room which showed you the tracking settings, these are before settings, so definitely set up right.

 

Dropped it off to get bushes and ball joint done today

[Junkman]

Steering and handling should be razor sharp with these, all of mine were/are exemplary in this respect.

 

Front:

Camber                   0° +-30'

Caster                     +3°10' +-30' Est. +2°25' +-30'

King pin inclination  +11°25' +-30'

Toe in                      +1.0mm +-0.5mm

 

Rear:

Camber                   -1°20' +-30'

Toe in                      +2.5mm +-0.8mm

 

Note that the rear axle needs considerable toe in, whereas yours has toe out.

That alone could be the reason for the symptoms you describe.

Do you have the values from after the adjustment?

 

Anyway, fitting new bushes and ball joints will alter the settings again, so I'd have it completely checked once more.

Instead of that McQuickfuck, could you not take it to a local non-chain tyre fitter and get it checked?

[The Moog]

Free virtual pint ðŸÂº to those proposing wishbone bushes. Both sides were shot. £100 for bushes plus fitting plus fitting new ball joint.

 

Feels like a new car now with go kart handling. Will get rear subframe bushes fitted after Christmas

[Inspector Morose]

(Meanders off to look for wishbone bushes for the BX)

[dieselnutjob]

I put my winter tyres on the 607 last week and it has also become horrible, particularly in the slow lane when lorries have worn two grooves.  It tries to vear off to one side with quite a pull on the steering.