Chod theft is skyrocketing

[Junkman]

Today I read this article: http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/news/general/800023544/

Interesting is the shift in models targeted, and I was completely unaware, that the P6 V8 suddenly became en vogue with thugs. My assumption always was,

that they consider a P6 V8 owner a bigger crook than they are themselves.

 

In face of this new trend, I recommend that all of you start taking this seriously and take precautions.

 

Apart from that, I would like this thread to be used to exchange experiences, tips, and knowledge.

This is something that could affect each of us, or has already affected some of us, and we should share our knowledge, especially when it comes to anti-theft devices,

and any of those newfangled high-tech gadgets to track a car.

As an example, I have no idea what they mean, when they mention forensic tagging and select DNA (having a vivid imagination, I probably don't want to know).

Also, I wouldn't know where to place trackers or DNA samples, assuming that professional thieves are familiar with the usual hidey holes of any particular

make/model. After all, they have to be considered professionals, who take the same pride in their work, as we do in ours.

 

I was once told by a crime squad copper, that one of the best anti-theft devices for classics is a chain and padlock through the steering wheel/pedals.

Anything unusual seems to throw thieves off, he said. What you can buy at Halfords, they are familiar with, and it doesn't really keep them away.

But if they see a chain and padlock, it's unfamiliar to them and they likely just walk away.

 

And finally, how to deal with insurances, what kind of policy to take out, how to negotiate the replacement value for cars that don't actually have one yet, etc.

[brickwall]

Aye. Local copper acknowledges the sudden increase on all Rover Group type stuff. An ultraviolet pen is good and you can mark certain bits with your postcode or mobile number. this won't stop in getting half inched, but may help quick return if you tell them where it's marked when you report it.

 

Remove a relay like for the full pump will help stop getting it driven off, but not when its getting loaded on a flatbed. Security should be easy so you can form a habit, hence some easy access relays.

 

If thefts are at night, thinks smart. Remove bulbs and fuses if the car will be laid up for a bit. A brake light is good as according to the local copper they spot that straight away and then pull them over. Teh thief may not notice the brake lights ain't working.

 

Thieves hate spot lamps with sensors; so fit one above your cars and have a grate over it if it's low so they can't smash it easy.

 

 

 

There is more when I can think of it.

[Jim Bell]

I would like to see a blagger get a disklok off without cutting through the steering column or taking the windscreen out.

 

Its my weapon of choice.  Never been beaten in my experience.

 

Check out this Volvo enthusiast in a Voxol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2YGWxOUNiU

 

 

Doesnt stop them lifting it, but its a very good deterant.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I think we need to start from the baseline that these scum are not professional anything. They are for the most part opportunist wankers who occasionally get lucky.

The fact that nothing more sophisticated than a chain and padlock can deter them is a good sign.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that most classic* car thefts probably involve technical equipment such as HIAB's beaver tail's and weigh bridges . Obviously anything with a scene tax on parts- OLLI,Pineapples,Old Skool Farts etc will be seen as easy pickings for profit but anything else is just so much mixed metal,as for 12 Rover P6's been stolen in one year, it would be interesting to see statistics from 1963 to date for how many got stolen each year and if 12 is still on the downward curve or it shows a rise in popularity.

In the last 3 years I've lost an e46 MV2 wheel,an MX5 stereo and cash,CDs and cuff links taken from my (unlocked) Chrysler,what worries me is the disproportionate level of rage I felt and what would have happened if I'd stumbled across these shitheads going about their business. One thing I do know, the last people I'd want getting involved would be Cuddly liberal Police section of the Social Services, more likely that next morning I'd be calling my brother to borrow his tree chipper!

[Split_Pin]

I use a Disklok, the tests on You Tube seem to conclude its pretty good.

[EssDeeWon]

Bloke down the road has 3 old Mk3 Granada's, he has had two theft attempts, one they failed and borked the door lock and the other time he caught them, kids in hoodies. Now all three have steering locks on and no more hassel, as said above any steering lock will deter them, or if the cars laid up for days/weeks at a time then remove a battery lead?

[Station]

I bought a disklok for a couple of pounds, I'm going to get another one and a few of the other CrookLok devices, they seem pretty good.

[scooters]

Get an undesirable car with no 'scene'

244 DL Volvo - povspec like mine.

Rubbish banger as although tough it has crumple zones a plenty

[scooters]

I often wire in an immobilising switch, often an idea to get a regular bit of switch gear for a feature your car doesn;t have (mine has lots of these spaces) and route ignition wire through it. Therfore you have to push the switch to start the engine.

 

Big old disc locks do the trick.

 

Given it takes a certain knack not to flood the engine on my car I think any thief that can work out how to get the car moving is doing pretty well.

[mercedade]

Conversely, because I am AN NUMPTY I left my 820 Vitesse outside all last night with the passenger window wide open.

 

Nothing was stolen, not even the 40p left in the handbrake well.

 

Therefore, ALL ROVER THEEEEVES R SHIT.

[Sloth in a bowl]

One of my neighbours has noted the Pride as an excellent house burglar deterent. Either it looks like somebody is in or that with a shitty kia parked outside there will be nothing worth nicking inside.

[retrogeezer]

a chain and padlock is next to useless, 2 minutes with a hack saw would surely see the rim of the wheel cut through and the chain in a heap on the floor.

 

Diskloks on all my cars.

[Junkman]

I think we need to start from the baseline that these scum are not professional anything. They are for the most part opportunist wankers who occasionally get lucky.

The fact that nothing more sophisticated than a chain and padlock can deter them is a good sign.

There is crystal clear evidence that the increased popularity (and thus value) of classic cars has spawned a new category of crime, where organised professionals are lifting cars for profit.

And no, I don't believe a chain and padlock, or any disclock at that, would be effective against this kind of criminals.

 

This thread was meant to discuss methods of how to protect our cars from this new, professional form of crime, and IMO this is three-fold.

 

A. How to keep them from lifting our cars in the first place.

B. How to track and recover a car once it was lifted.

C. How to go about an agreed value with an insurance, when the car doesn't have a "market value".

[barefoot]

Or a bolt cropper - 10 seconds?

[barefoot]

I am seriously debating a retractable or collapsible bollard at the end of my drive.

[Junkman]

I am seriously debating a retractable or collapsible bollard at the end of my drive.

 

This is the kind of suggestion I was looking for.

Not a bad idea at all.

[retrogeezer]

well to stop it being lifted it needs to be parked where it can't be lifted. Access to my drive is difficult so that helps. If you use a garage, park another car in front of the garage too. Use a diskok. Remove an ht lead, disconnect the battery etc - do anything to make their life more difficult.

 

If you park a mini at the side of the road in a housing estate expect to not see at some point.

[Junkman]

Disklok, removed ignition lead, disconnected battery, etc. is all good and well, if you want to keep them from driving the car away.

How can you stop them from pulling it onto a low loader?

An increasing number of people had their classics stolen in broad daylight, while they were at work, when a brightly coloured recovery lorry turned up,

and some gents in high viz vests loaded it up under the eyes of unassuming neighbours, orange beacons flashing and all.

 

I like the bollard idea.

[forddeliveryboy]

If something gets really valuable and so desirable, I'd think organised crime would have little bother with removing a car no matter what the immobilisation - wouldn't they just lift or drag it? So a solid obstable in the way must make sense - bollards are used by dealers. Not displaying ££££ for all the world to see a good idea, too.

 

Do they have their own forum anywhere?

[jonny69]

An excellent suggestion for a thread, we should have started one of these already because it's not a new thing. Older chod is easier to steal and it's often joyriders finding them easy pickings.

 

I was always told that crooklocks are easy to prise off and that disclocks aren't much different. Is this not the case then?

 

 

I am seriously debating a retractable or collapsible bollard at the end of my drive.

 

These work well. My dad put one in on the drive back in the late 90's when there was a lot of car theft in London. Just make sure your anchor is well buried and can't be pulled out easily.

 

I think, ultimately, for any security to actually work well, it has to be convenient. Things like locking car covers and clamps are well and good, and clamps probably work really well, but it's such a faff to take on and off every day that I soon lose my patience. I used to secure my hotrod by lashing the wire wheel to a chassis rail with a padlock and chain and the steering on full lock. I spent out £150 on an Almax chain and Stronghold padlock, both well recognised as being practically uncuttable, so it was peace of mind for me. But on days where it's cold and raining and I'm out there trying to unwind a heavy filthy sopping wet padlock and chain from round the wheel... it's not always practical. My opinion though, especially when it comes to insurance payouts (or talk to me about not paying out), is to prevent it happening in the first place. I had a motorbike stolen once and the insurance refused to pay out. Since then I don't tend to take the chance and try to prevent the crime happening in the first place. This usually involves using unnecessarily huge locks on everything but it buys you peace of mind.

[Partridge]

This is the kind of suggestion I was looking for.

Not a bad idea at all.

If you have a circular saw at the ready, you can slice through those things in seconds depending on A) the grade of steel they use and how big they are. I speak from experience (not though nicking cars, through getting rid of them at work). I know it would cause a right fanfare sawing through one, but if there's already somebody in the car waiting, they'd have it away easy as you like. The ones you buy from say a caravanning shop are pish most often, being made from recycled D reg Escorts presumably. Ex council ones are great though. Some in pompy were bloody solid steel, I know because we had to take the f**kers out from some garage blocks.

 

A chain round the pedals is a GR9 idea though. Wheel locks are handy things too, put they're easy to get through as well. The folks had a caravan stolen when it was wearing one. I think belt and braces is the way, and employ everything mentioned above.

[mat_the_cat]

Do they have their own forum anywhere?

 

Probably loads on the Deep Web. Anyone used TOR?

 

I think a tracker is perhaps the best bet if your car is likely to be lifted, as even a bollard might be no obstacle to a big enough hi-ab. I keep meaning to make up a cheap mobile phone based tracker, but never get round to it...

[Junkman]

But what does one have to consider when selecting a tracker, and where would one put it in the car?

What are the pros and cons of the various trackers?

[tinfoil hat mode] Aren't they just recommended to make old chod as easy to monitor as newfangled tosh is by default? [/tinfoil hat mode]

[Sigmund Fraud]

I am not particularly concerned, my cars are far too shite for any thief to bother with.

 

A few years back, my daily was a properly shabby Riva (looked like the mistreated twin of Sam Glover's one). Being an absent minded twit, I had parked it overnight in a fairly dodgy area and managed to leave the doors open and my wallet on the dashboard. When I returned in the morning, both the car and the wallet were there.

 

Similar thing happened more recently, I parked my Megane in a pretty rough area and somehow left the keys on the door. When I returned two hours later, nobody had touched it.

[mat_the_cat]

But what does one have to consider when selecting a tracker, and where would one put it in the car?

What are the pros and cons of the various trackers?

[tinfoil hat mode] Aren't they just recommended to make old chod as easy to monitor as newfangled tosh is by default? [/tinfoil hat mode]

 

Good question! This looks to be at the bottom of the scale in both price and probably quality:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tracker-Vehicle-Theft-Protection-System-Black/dp/B003XDN58K

 

Reliability and current consumption are what I'd be looking at in a tracker. Personally I wouldn't worry about Big Brother monitoring us - why would anyone want to, and do MI5 *really* have enough resources to keep tabs on everyone using a tracker?

 

I'd hide it in the least obvious and most inaccessible place I could think of. And then hope it doesn't fail!

[brickwall]

Yes, we keep hearing about phone apps and stuff and an old phone and whatever, but we have to think clever. My local copper says the best bet is to make thieves go elsewhere, ie lighting, bushes cut back, pull-down blinds in your garage window.

 

The next bit is to secure your stuff and the next is to have it identified and retrieved.

 

 

Do the little trackers on ebay have a worth? Can you get real-time info on google maps to feed info to the control room?

 

As far a chod goes; the classics have a value and the dull stuff is major joy riding stuff.

[EssDeeWon]

But what does one have to consider when selecting a tracker, and where would one put it in the car?

What are the pros and cons of the various trackers?

[tinfoil hat mode] Aren't they just recommended to make old chod as easy to monitor as newfangled tosh is by default? [/tinfoil hat mode]

 

I always thought the spare wheel well would be a good place to stash one, but you need to remember to charge it up reguarly or I guess it wont work when plod try calling it to get a signal??

[dave21478]

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE THIEVES.

Yeah, plenty are opportunist junkies who see a chance and take it if its easy enough, but car theft can be very big money especially given how much certain fords, vws and landies can be worth and how easy they are to ring. This attracts people with mechanical skills and no morals - a dangerous combination.

 

A proper disklock is as good as it gets regarding physical security. Crooklocks (wheel rim to a pedal)... autolocks (handbrake lever to gear lever) and stoplocks (straight bar through the steering wheel) are a complete, utter farce - seriously, even the dimmest of thieves will have one off in about 3, maybe 4 seconds, often without even needing any tools. Infact the stoplock and its ilk that consist of a bar through the steering wheel spokes actually HELP the thief as it provides a handy bit of leverage to break the cars steering lock before he knocks the stoplock off.

 

The only downside of the disklock is its bulk....where to keep it when its not on the car. You dont really want it sliding about the footwells and you really dont want it ricocheting about the cabin in an accident. In the boot is safest, but will you be arsed to use it and store it EVERY time? Just popping in to the corner shop on the way home from work to buy a cornetto only takes a few minutes, will you get the lock out the boot and fit it? Its times like that when your car is at real risk.

 

A mul-t-lock (im not sure about the spelling) is an interesting alternative. You fit a very hefty braket to the cars floor/trans tunnel and when you park you put the car in reverse and fit a shackle round the gear lever and into this locking base plate. Its quick and easy to use and reasonably secure, however looks a bit gash, requires proper work to fit, and may not be suitable for all cars, especially older stuff.

 

If you can hide it somewhere and have the mechanical skills to plumb it in, a line lock in the brake pipes will lock up all four wheels and the car wont move until its released....makes driving off impossible and also makes dragging it onto a flatbed a lot harder too.

 

Electrically, removing a fuel pump relay is a good idea, however keep on top of it....constant removal will slacken the pins in the mounting base and one day it will fail to make contact - usually in the middle lane of the M6.

Hidden switches are good too, but thieves are wise to the broken feed to the coil. Get inventive.

If you have an older car, you have more problems - a mechanical fuel pump and points ignition is the worst, and anyone who knows a little bit can have it started and running within seconds using 18 inches of wire. IMO if you have a car like that, then a shut-off valve in the fuel line might be a good idea. It will start and run, but cut out after a minute or so.

 

Alarms - meh. Granted it will alert you if it sounds outside your house, but if the car is parked in town, nobody will bat an eyelid. immobilisers are nice. Best to get one with a pickup coil around the ignition barrell and a passive chip in your keyring - this saves fumbling about touching contact pads in the dark and is less prone to failure. Most decent ones will cut two circuits - go for something ignition related and something fuel pump related. They are only as good as their installation though. The Thatcham approved ones should have all black wiring and you need it installed by an approved dealer to get the certificate. If you do it yourself, make the joins as hard to get at as possible, feed the wires into the existing loom tape and make it all appear factory - a birds nest of wires stuff up behind the glovebox may look intimidating to the layman but anyone with half a brain for this sort of thing will have the wires traced and spliced within a minute or two.

 

Trackers - my only experience of these was a friend a number of years back who paid out a huge amount to have one fitted to his evo III. I found the box within about 30 seconds, and it would have been a piece of piss to yank it out and stomp on it. If you use one, it MUST be hard to get to...I dont mean behind the boot side panel, I mean inside a bit of chassis box section or somewhere similar that requires major dismantling and tools to get at.

[brickwall]

 

I think, ultimately, for any security to actually work well, it has to be convenient. .......

 

 

Absolutely. This what i was saying as we all know what human nature is like - eventually you can't be bothered.

[Parky]

My view has always been that it is feasible to stop a chancer but if a pro wants your car, they'll get it.

 

If its an exotic like a Porsche or Ferrari, two men turn up in a low loader wearing Ferrari overalls and it looks like the dealer picking up a car for repair. No-one bats an eyelid. A guy I worked with lost his Porsche this way. While at work two guys in a low loader and Porsche overalls turned up at his house. His neighbour even spoke to the guys about what they were doing, all it took was one to say "we have had a spate of these lately, the fuel pumps keep failing because of a manufacturing defect". The Porsche was never seen again.