Eye-catching black and whites

[MiniMinorMk3]

4 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Interesting picture - the car third right is an Envoy - an export Vauxhall Viva badged Envoy.

 

2 hours ago, Madman Of The People said:

 

Park Avenue Chevrolet-Oldsmobile (and they apparently sold Cadillacs at some point, too) in St. Leonard, (now part of Montreal) Quebec.  Long gone by the look of it.  There's a dealership today called Hamel Chevrolet-Buick-GMC in St. Leonard, which could possibly be the descendant of Park Avenue, but I can't tell for certain.

The white car on the right, behind the Chevrolet Corvairs, is an Envoy Epic, a rebadged Vauxhall Viva HA for the Canadian market.  Envoys were sold by Canadian Chevrolet dealers and Canadian Pontiac dealers also sold the same cars badged as Vauxhalls.  This photo appears to be from 1964, as the trim strip on the front of the Corvair in the foreground is unique to the 1964 models.  1964 was also the year the Envoy Epic was introduced to Canada.

A history of Envoy cars in Canada can be found here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envoy_(automobile)

 

I posted some pictures of an Envoy Epic in Car you didn't know existed... thread a few months back

 

[Madman Of The People]

6 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

 

I posted some pictures of an Envoy Epic in Car you didn't know existed... thread a few months back

 

 

Truly an "Epic" find, indeed!  These cars are as rare as rocking horse poo.  Low sales, lack of dealer support (who regarded these cars as a distraction from their core business), and brutally frigid Canadian winters killing off most of them, all translate to miniscule surviving numbers today.

 

[lesapandre]

21 hours ago, Remspoor said:

1970-71 or a bit later. A55 is 1957-58 - so could be up to 15 yo and probably on its last legs - as these went very rusty. Both the Maxi and the A60 have been away abroad - unless some Hyacinth Bucket has added GB to look posh - Chester.

The G reg A60 is 1968-69 - Ford were up to the MK3 Cortina by 1970....dear old BMC. The A60 Cambridge was ended by the Maxi introduction  in 1969 - the Oxford badged cars soldiered on until 1971 - superceded by the Marina. That was the end of an era - as mostly under the skin they were early 50's.

See how cars have grown - there were cars parked on both sides of the street in '71 - thought one way even then.

Chemist recently went out of business - though note how we call them a pharmacy these days.

[Bfg]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Chemist recently went out of business - though note how we call them a pharmacy these days.

^  a clue behind that may be in that it was also a Post Office. 

Having been brought up with the word Chemist., I'd thought Pharmacy was an Franco-Americanism, but it appears to have derived from Medieval Latin pharmacia, from Greek pharmakeia  "a healing or harmful medicine, a healing or poisonous herb; a drug, poisonous potion; magic (potion), dye, raw material for physical or chemical processing." This is from pharmakeus (fem. pharmakis) "a preparer of drugs, a poisoner, a sorcerer" from pharmakon "a drug, a poison, philter (love potion), charm, spell, enchantment."   

However one defines it   ..they sound like a really dangerous places.

 

 

[Madman Of The People]

2 hours ago, Bfg said:

^  a clue behind that may be in that it was also a Post Office. 

Having been brought up with the word Chemist., I'd thought Pharmacy was an Franco-Americanism, but it appears to have derived from Medieval Latin pharmacia, from Greek pharmakeia  "a healing or harmful medicine, a healing or poisonous herb; a drug, poisonous potion; magic (potion), dye, raw material for physical or chemical processing." This is from pharmakeus (fem. pharmakis) "a preparer of drugs, a poisoner, a sorcerer" from pharmakon "a drug, a poison, philter (love potion), charm, spell, enchantment."   

However one defines it   ..they sound like a really dangerous places.

 

 

 

Hold on a minute!  Let's not let facts get in the way of blaming the Yanks for corrupting the King's English!

😁 

[MiniMinorMk3]

10 hours ago, lesapandre said:

 

The G reg A60 is 1968-69 - Ford were up to the MK3 Cortina by 1970....dear old BMC. The A60 Cambridge was ended by the Maxi introduction  in 1969 - the Oxford badged cars soldiered on until 1971 - superceded by the Marina. That was the end of an era - as mostly under the skin they were early 50's.

 

The Landcrabs were supposed to replace the Cambridge and Oxford, but traditional BMC/BLMC buys still demanded old RWD saloons with a hint of leather and wood and not that new fangled FWD system and lashings of vinyl. . Maybe if BMC had dropped the Cambridge and Oxford when the Landcrabs appeared, then some of those traditional buyers may have moved up to a Triumph, or even a Jaaaaaag.

[Remspoor]

[Joey spud]

[Joey spud]

[Joey spud]

[somewhatfoolish]

53 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

WTF services their brakes with no shoes on?

[Metal Guru]

23 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

WTF services their brakes with no shoes on?

Someone told him “they’re disc brakes. You won’t need shoes”

[Remspoor]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

WTF services their brakes with no shoes on?

You were lucky, we use't  sweep middle of road in our bare feet, in middle of t'night. And still think how luck we are.

[Madman Of The People]

1 hour ago, Remspoor said:

You were lucky, we use't  sweep middle of road in our bare feet, in middle of t'night. And still think how luck we are.

Feet?  You posh git!  When I were a lad, we couldn’t afford feet.  We had to hobble round on stumps!  And we considered ourselves bloody lucky, too!!!

😁

 

[adw1977]

11 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

The Landcrabs were supposed to replace the Cambridge and Oxford, but traditional BMC/BLMC buys still demanded old RWD saloons with a hint of leather and wood and not that new fangled FWD system and lashings of vinyl. . Maybe if BMC had dropped the Cambridge and Oxford when the Landcrabs appeared, then some of those traditional buyers may have moved up to a Triumph, or even a Jaaaaaag.

The trouble with the 1800 Landcrab as a replacement for the A60 Cambridge was that it was bigger, more powerful and about £100 more expensive, so it wasn't really in the same class.

Oct 1966 price list

[D.E]

Bridge Street, Northampton. 1970.

[D.E]

Goggomobil!

[lesapandre]

On 08/10/2024 at 14:15, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

"Unt ziz iz not vot ve call ze Woollard !"

Interesting photo that - it is according to the web taken in Holland a few day's before the final surrender of the Nazi regime. The lorry is Canadian I believe delivering Red Cross supplies to the starving Dutch.

[Remspoor]

Hulme Estate

[lesapandre]

Two 2CV. Always a sign of a rough area.😂

[MiniMinorMk3]

19 hours ago, adw1977 said:

The trouble with the 1800 Landcrab as a replacement for the A60 Cambridge was that it was bigger, more powerful and about £100 more expensive, so it wasn't really in the same class.

Oct 1966 price list

The A60 Cambridge was 8 inches longer and over an inch taller than the Austin 1800.

BMC 1800 development story – ADO17, the Landcrab that failed to sell (aronline.co.uk)

Quote

But when the ADO17 was launched in October 1964, what emerged from Longbridge was, therefore, a car that was faster, heavier, much wider and more expensive than the car it was designed to replace. With that in mind, BMC quite sensibly kept the Farinas in production, although that was not an expedient move as there was little profit in these cars and, being a product of a bygone era, they did not fit-in readily with the rest of the range.

 

BMC were ahead of the game in trying to replace a car with something a bit bigger and more powerful. Pretty much all replacement models from all manufacturers have been like this for the last 30 to 40 years.

[lesapandre]

5 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

The A60 Cambridge was 8 inches longer and over an inch taller than the Austin 1800.

BMC 1800 development story – ADO17, the Landcrab that failed to sell (aronline.co.uk)

 

BMC were ahead of the game in trying to replace a car with something a bit bigger and more powerful. Pretty much all replacement models from all manufacturers have been like this for the last 30 to 40 years.

But by that point the British middle class and 'executive' and business car market was saturated - and not finding any significant export market - the 1800 had some very stiff competition from the likes of the Cortina 1600, Corsair, Zephyr, Victor, Ventora, Triumph 2000, Rover 2000, Humber Hawk, Jaguar 240  - and even in-house the existing 1600cc Farina range and bigger Wolseley 6/110, not to mention burgeoning imports like Peugeot 404, Renault 16, Citroen ID and Mercedes 200.

Self-evidently a better car than many of those - but it was also perceived to be thirsty, unreliable, ugly, difficult to drive and austere.

It was also probably quite expensive to build - leading to a low profit per unit cost. Given the development cost and low numbers sold it's unlikely BMC ever made a profit on it.

[somewhatfoolish]

Another decent Issigonis concept ruined by Issigonis' arrogance, terrible aesthetics, shitty detailing and BMC penny pinching. It ought to have been Maxi-sized to compete directly with all the other mid-size saloons, the attention paid to packaging would have given class-leading interior space in a car light enough to be powered by a 1.6 B series and not have shit economy.

[Metal Guru]

On 11/10/2024 at 01:06, Bfg said:

^  a clue behind that may be in that it was also a Post Office. 

Having been brought up with the word Chemist., I'd thought Pharmacy was an Franco-Americanism, but it appears to have derived from Medieval Latin pharmacia, from Greek pharmakeia  "a healing or harmful medicine, a healing or poisonous herb; a drug, poisonous potion; magic (potion), dye, raw material for physical or chemical processing." This is from pharmakeus (fem. pharmakis) "a preparer of drugs, a poisoner, a sorcerer" from pharmakon "a drug, a poison, philter (love potion), charm, spell, enchantment."   

However one defines it   ..they sound like a really dangerous places.

 

 

Boots dropped “the chemist” from their official name in 2007 although the parent company is now Walgreens Boots Alliance Inc.

[Remspoor]

Leeds

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, Remspoor said:

Leeds

The past often look so much more interesting.

Round building in the background is an old bank now a bar - constructed in 1899 and designed by W W Gwyther for the Yorkshire District Banking Company.

Ham-fisted recladding of the tower to the left - now a hotel.

Early BMC Farina with rarer square rear number plate and the 1948-57 Humber Hawk looking antedeluvian compared to the svelte little Herald.

Picture taken after September 1962 - when the Cortina was introduced.

[Fat_Pirate]

On 11/10/2024 at 22:12, adw1977 said:

The trouble with the 1800 Landcrab as a replacement for the A60 Cambridge was that it was bigger, more powerful and about £100 more expensive, so it wasn't really in the same class.

Oct 1966 price list

Adjusted for inflation, the 1100 cost the equivalent of £10K in todays money, though I suppose it would be as rotten as a pear after 5 years in typical use. The radio in the Princess 1100 would be £600!  

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, Fat_Pirate said:

Adjusted for inflation, the 1100 cost the equivalent of £10K in todays money, though I suppose it would be as rotten as a pear after 5 years in typical use. The radio in the Princess 1100 would be £600!  

Seems they were still selling cars without heaters too! BMC prices were all over the place - it's reported that they had little idea what the cars really cost to produce - and set rates in comparison to other manufacturers.

Diesel is an (expensive) option on the A60 - cars were probably individually fitted off the main production line run.

1100 with leather seat option  - and a little later in October 1967 the 1300 arrived.

[Metal Guru]

3 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Seems they were still selling cars without heaters too! BMC prices were all over the place - it's reported that they had little idea what the cars really cost to produce - and set rates in comparison to other manufacturers.

Diesel is an (expensive) option on the A60 - cars were probably individually fitted off the main production line run.

1100 with leather seat option  - and a little later in October 1967 the 1300 arrived.

I remember my dad saying he’d paid extra for the heater in his 1962 Ford Pop.  On his next new “car” , a Bedford CA minibus , 1969, the interior rear view mirror always an extra. The next a Mk111 Cortina, 1976, actually had a fitted radio! He had finally hit the big time!

[adw1977]

Vauxhall also didn't include a heater in the specification of base trim levels across the range in 1966.