OMG SORN FINE!!!

[Lankytim]

Got a SORN fine today for a vehicle i'm using for spares. I tried several times to SORN it online, and even went down the post office but because of a change of taxation class (or something) they wouldn't let me do it. Instead I sent the V5 off as scrapped a couple of weeks ago. It's just under 2 months that the car hasn't been taxed, and they want me to pay for the tax for that period too! Does anybody here know the best way of sticking it to the DOOVLA good and proper? (n.b legally)

 

I know this is all probably my own fault, but OBV I don't want to pay the fine.

[HillmanImp]

I would simply ring them up and try to explain or make a mad dash to one of the remaining Doovla offices whilst they are still open.

[CortinaDave]

Legally, you have done your duty. You sent off the V5. its not your fault they lost it. This is the letter of the law not a dodgy excuse - A document is deemed served if it was posted. You do not need to prove you posted it, the onus is on them to prove you didnt.

 

Write them back a polite letter explaining you properly addressed and stamped the envelope  containing the V5, and sent it back to them, thus you have fulfilled your legal obligations and are not liable for any fines. Once posted, you are not obligated by law to then phone them to check they have recieved it.

 

This would stand up in court as reasonable (and has done many times before)

 

They would be laughed out of court.

[MrDuke]

^^^ Surely that would only be legally valid if it was sent recorded (or whatever they call it now), otherwise anyone could just not bother and then claim that they'd posted it off.

[ruffgeezer]

Tell them politely to FRO, I have taken this approach with them twice and twice they have backed down, on one occasion I recall telling them they could take the car (by then it had been scrapped anyway) and that I'd made a start on crushing it for them!

[CortinaDave]

Doesn't need to be recorded, You don't need to prove you posted it, as long as you say you properly stamped and addressed the envelope and sent it in good faith  the onus is on DVLA to prove you didn't, which of course they can't.

 

Chances are when you point this out to them they'll send this standard response.

 

Quote: Chancing DVLA dicks

Dear Mr X
Thank you for your response concerning the late licensing penalty imposed upon you for failing to relicense your vehicle as required.

Although you have indicated that disposed of the vehicle, the Department has not received the notification. When the department recieves a SORN or change of keeper we send an acknowledgement letter within 4 weeks. It is a matter for you to pursue the letter. For details on this process please see below. If you can provide an acknowledgement letter that was issued prior to the Late Licensing Penalty then no further action will be taken.

However, on the information before us you are still liable for the £80 penalty. .

 

This however is bollocks. You are not liable. They know this. All you need do is reply as above that the law deems you have fulfilled your duty by posting the V5 in good faith, and that you are under no legal responsibility to then chase them up at a later date to check they have received it. There have been several cases of this nature in the past and the Doovla have had not a leg to stand on. I'll have a look for them when I get home later so you can quote the relevant case in your letter. This should make them go away.

 

have a read of this...

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/03/dvla_court/

[wackywacerwill]

Yep, that's the law. They will say that you should receive in the post notice of sorn though as stated your legal duty is only to post it off to them and as we all know, lot's of stuff gets lost posting to Swansea.

[HillmanImp]

They would be laughed out of court.

 

Problem is (as we have seen before) you will probably get called to court in the Outer Hebrides or similar. True, you may get off buy you will have to spend a day and a fortune getting there.

[Lankytim]

The problem is I only sent off the V5 as scrapped about 40 days after the tax was cashed in by the previous owner, however in the mean time I tried to SORN it online several times and tried to SORN it at the post office. In the end I gave up and sent the V5 off as scrapped, too late though it seems!

[CortinaDave]

In which case I'd simply tell them you sent a SORN notification by post, and they must not have recieved it. They have to prove you didn't. And they can't. Problem solved

[derskine]

They're a shower of bastards them DVLA

[nigel bickle]

Cortina Dave is indeed 'spot on'.

 

However, if they insist on taking you to Court (v unlikely)  -apply to have it held in your local one (to the Court) who will probably move it closer to you. DVLA have very few Prosecutors left- so this will cause them a prob.

 

If they don't/won't, send a Recorded Delivery letter to DVLA (ordinary post copy to the Clerk of that Court) detailing the Expenses you will be claiming in the event of an 'NG'. Make them large.

 

When found NG (we'll coach you), the Porsecutor will try to hurry on the the next case. Stand your ground (In the Witness Box ) and enquire about the Expenses.  Producer your letter, & proof of posting, tell the Clerk he will have a copy (much rummaging) -10mins later DVLA will be required to send you a cheque within 21 days (to clear within 28). You will be able to hear the squeals of pain when he has to explain -back at the ranch. 

They'll think twice before coming at you again..

 

Changes to ' one off 'mid next month anyway -so I really doubt they'll try.

[Lankytim]

Cheers Nigel, that's just what I wanted to hear! One problem though, when I sent the V5 off as scrapped I wrote at the bottom that I was unable to sorn online due to the tax category. I may have shot myself in the foot as it could be seen as an admission that I hadn't sornd it, although it doesn't mention anything aboutnot sending off a form in the post.

[Des]

Cheers Nigel, that's just what I wanted to hear! One problem though, when I sent the V5 off as scrapped I wrote at the bottom that I was unable to sorn online due to the tax category. I may have shot myself in the foot as it could be seen as an admission that I hadn't sornd it, although it doesn't mention anything aboutnot sending off a form in the post.

I'd imagine being unable to do the online thing would have promptly led to a trek to your nearest post box. Even if you had no recollection of events as a result of a high speed encounter with a hump backed bridge in a horseless carriage would it not be fair to assume that the case rather than brand you a wrongdoer.

It occured to me some time ago that I should send DVLA a monthly letter containing a drawing of a cock, saving proof of postings to use whenever I get the inevitable fine for whatever bit of missing paperwork but there's no need.

[Rocket88]

The meaning of the words "civil" and "servants" seems not to be in DVLA's dictionary.............

[rainagain]

I just taxed the Megane following the engine swap. We bought it ~6 months ago with no tax so we bought six months tax, two weeks into ownership when the engine shat itself I had to SORN it as I couldn't just swap the insurance back to my OH's other car and leave it taxed. So I taxed it this week and got a note on the website saying the SORN had expired in September and somebody from the 'enforcement team' might be in contact.

 

I have not idea how they worked out the SORN had expired in September. 

 

Bought car in June it was SORN

Taxed it June

Declared it SORN again same month

Bought tax again in November

 

Where does September come from????

[Twiggy]

Experience has taught me to send any communication of this nature "guaranteed delivery by 1 pm the following day, and signed for". It is expensive  (£6:22 for the last one) but you get proof of posting from the P.O.  You can track it on line and have proof of delivery on line, even giving you the name of the person who signed the acceptance for it.

Yes..... I know this may seem OTT, but it does save the irritating aggravation that arises when DVLA, or any other body claims they have not received the documentation. Considering the potential aggro which can arise, it seems a reasonably cheap way of insuring against it.

[nigel bickle]

Certificate of Posting will do.

 

Its free ,but a stamped or printed receipt from  the Post office confirming its been accepted for delivery is acceptable to any Court. The added benefit is that the Recipient ( in this case DVLA) aren't aware you can prove posting. 

 

Kinda handy if you want to keep your powder dry.......

[Twiggy]

Certificate of Posting will do.

 

Its free ,but a stamped or printed receipt from  the Post office confirming its been accepted for delivery is acceptable to any Court. The added benefit is that the Recipient ( in this case DVLA) aren't aware you can prove posting. 

 

Kinda handy if you want to keep your powder dry.......

 

Thank you for that Nigel -  really appreciated. I`ll try it next time.

[garbaldy]

On a similar note has anyone been or know anyone that's been done for this continuous registration bollox they 

have come up with ie if the vehicle is taxed it has to be insured,

I ask as the maxus has tax sitting on it

[wuvvum]

DVLA sent me a fine beginning of this year for the Stagea.  I hadn't added it to my policy; they sent me a warning notice, but being a twat I forgot to do anything about it, and eventually they sent a demand for £80.  I still haven't paid, and they haven't done anything more than send the standard mildly threatening follow up letters - if they do take it further I'll turn up at court and produce my trader's certificate, but for the moment I'm letting sleeping dogs lie.

[Lankytim]

Ok...

 

...So should I...

 

A) Ignore all letters and correspondence until I end up in court then take it from there

 

B )Fill in the "appeals" section on the rear of their letter stating that I SORNed the car via post and that I'm under no obligation to chase them up if I don't get a confirmation, and could they now FOXTROT OSCAR.

[CortinaDave]

I would do B ) but sent as your own letter.