Glow plugs

[Bren]

my 07 vectra CDTi stutters a bit when starting from cold - I usually give it two cycles of the key and then it goes, sometimes with a puff of unburnt fuel.

 

Before shelling out £40 on a set of bosch items (not too painful), I thought I would check the battery as a battery or starter that is failing can give similar symptoms, according to the vectra C forum that is.

 

I have checked the battery voltage and it shows 12.3V - TBH I think it should be 12.7 - 13.4 on a really healthy battery, it is an OE item and the magic eye was green.

 

I had the alternator replaced earlier in the year, however I never gave the battery a charge afterwards, a lot of people seem to think an alternator will fully charge a battery but I have been told that this is not the case, it was the old fashioned dynamo that worked this way, not an alternator, the alternator will only maintain a level of charge.

 

Any auto sparks who can confirm if this is bollocks before I buy some glow plugs?

[Bobthebeard]

The battery could be failing I suspect. 12.3 is on the low side. Plus the green 'magic eye' isn't too reliable!

[saucedoctor]

I'd replace that battery regardless, if it's the original one.

[Asimo]

Check the battery voltage with all off, whilst cranking (be quick) and with engine running at a bit more than tickover. You should measure 12.2 or a bit more all off, maybe 10v whilst cranking and 14 odd whilst alternator is charging. Battery voltage falls a bit as it gets colder, and cranking voltage even more so. The car alternator will fully charge a battery if all is working well and the car is used for long enough.

[castros_bro]

Do not pass go do not collect 200 chods !   What did you check the battery with? When was it last callibrated? Could it be 10% out?   Fully charged car batt (lead acid accumulator) should be 13.6 Volts.  Wack a discharge tester on it and it'll tell you if it's good or not to start yer chod.

[Lacquer Peel]

Scrap it.

[Cavcraft]

Would you take a Xantia in part-exchange?

 

Do a deal with LP or just lob a new battery on.

[Bren]

Even after a charge the battery showed just 12.3 v, so I lobbed the jump leads in the boot just in case.

 

On friday I did a 2 mile round trip to get some diesel - the car started ok and behaved itself. However, I was doing a night shift on Friday, it was starting to freeze, on leaving the house at 8pm the car started but just chugged and died. I assumed that the battery had finally expired.

 

Fast forward to today and I have fitted a brand new battery which was charged before use - the same problem. It starts, but just seems to chug, pressing the accelerator makes no difference. I cannot see any of the idiot lights staying on permanently, so I am not sure what the problem is. I would have noticed staraight away if I had put the wrong fuel in - I like to think I am quite vigilant in this respect. The car had a recon alternator fitted earlier in the year and has covered 61k.

 

Anybody who works on modern shit got any ideas? I am mindful that an 07 vectra is worth fook all and I am not prepared to start shelling out on pumps/injectors/ etc on what is basically an old car - the repair costs can start stacking up big time. As somebody stated earlier, maybe it is time to scrap it.

[oman5]

wasn't there something we had discovered about what all vauxhalls are?

[dieselnutjob]

difficult one.  if it was glowplugs or lack of compression then it wouldn't start in the first place

same for the battery

I would say that if it starts (chugs a bit, is that what you meant?) and then dies then it sounds more like a fueling issue

I have seen this when air is getting into fuel lines.  they start on what is in the filter and then die

Do these things have a tank mounted pump?

 

what is a CDTI? common rail? rotary pump?

[Pillock]

Could the cold be an issue? I remember my oldskool Seat diesel had a pre-heater for the diesel built into the pump.

[red5]

Dodgy rectifier in alternator possible. Was the pulley replaced at same time as alt?

[dieselnutjob]

These things would prevent it from starting. They wouldn't make it start then fail

[hauserplenty]

A 12V battery has six cells, at 2.1V apiece. So a full state of charge = 12.6V. It sounds like your alternator may not be charging the battery.  I'd suggest running your voltmeter leads to the battery, then placing it where you can see it through the windscreen. Fire it up, and watch the voltage. 13.6 is the minimum charging voltage. It should rise or fall with the throttle input, and be consistent with the temperature--the colder the temperature, the higher the voltage. You could have a charging problem as well as a fuel problem, unless the low voltage is causing intake air sensors or somat to malfunction. I'd also suggest you check the throttle position sensor, since you said the throttle is not responding. Put the meter on the ohms scale and slowly move the throttle. If the resistance does not change gradually, it could be time for a new TPS. 

You old battery may have had a bad cell, which drew too much current, causing a problem with the alternator. You might not have fixed the whole problem yet. So  ^ WHS...

Alternators on modern cars simply cannot return a battery to 12.6 V, if it has dropped to below 12.4V. The electronics on moderns have taken all the extra current which was once available to do so. Battery testing is best done with a carbon pile load tester or, failing that, a digital version of the same. If your new battery now reads <12.6V, definitely have the alternator tested, as the diodes may have failed. You might also have a parasitic drain somewhere...Or dirty battery terminals (baking soda+water+wire brush)...check your negative battery cable too. If it's defective, or simply corroded at the point where it attaches to the chassis, that could be another contributing factor.

[Barry Cade]

First of all- if you'r alternator was duff on a vectra, you'd know about it.. mad irrational warning lights steering going heavy, then one by one the systems will shut down and you'll end up at the side of the road in darkness.

 

Battery's on Vauxhalls tend to just go. 1 day they are fine, next day click click click. If it starts, it won't shut off again because of the battery or alternator.

 

I'd be looking closely at water in the fuel filter housing, or an air leak here, usual cause of poor starting on these. I've even seen one which was pishing diesel out of the filter housing all over the alternator, which wrecked it. Ran fine, just wouldn't start easily.

[Joey spud]

Re glow plugs on modern common rail stuff.

 

On an older pump system you just get one measured 'squirt' of fuel per ignition cycle so glow plugs are required to help this fuel to ignite when the engine is cold.

 

Because a common rail system works at a far higher injection pressure and the fact that the injectors are ecu controled it is able to very acurately inject the fuel at a higher pressure (more atomised) so it ignites far quicker and cleanly.

It is able to inject fuel pre combustion to start the combustion process,obviously at combustion and even post combustion (actually the injector can be switched on up to six times per firing) to improve power and emissions and to try and loose that characteristic diesel combustion ''knock'' and make it more like a petrol engine for the driver.

 

Because of this higher pressure and accuracy a common rail diesel engined vehicle doesn't need glow plugs like an old pump system and generally the glow plugs if fitted are only used once the engine has started to manage exhaust emissions while the engine warms up.

[Bren]

AA man came out this morning - he gave EGR a thump. Car then started.

 

He took it off and gave it a clean - he said he was surprised it did'nt illuminate the EML.

 

He asked if I did lots of short trips - I don't, a 40 mile round trip on the M62/M602.

 

To pour more salt on the wounds, I charged up the old battery as it was off the car, then let the surface charge dissipate - it showed 12.7 volts. Bastard.

 

I spent £75 on a battery I did'nt need.

[tooSavvy]

AA man came out this morning - he gave EGR a thump. Car then started.

 

He took it off and gave it a clean - he said he was surprised it did'nt illuminate the EML.

 

He asked if I did lots of short trips - I don't, a 40 mile round trip on the M62/M602.

 

To pour more salt on the wounds, I charged up the old battery as it was off the car, then let the surface charge dissipate - it showed 12.7 volts. Bastard.

 

*I spent £75 on a battery I did'nt need.

 

*KWIK KOLEKT 15£ 2NIT. R U MOBILE NOW KASH WAATIN. or FaceBukkItt  

[The Moog]

Its a bugger but at least got to the bottom of it for less than £100