Banger Racing. Not the stolen to race thread.

[Albert Ross]

It's three times as powerful, and silky smooth.... it would confuse the rivet counters!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C355369

 

i have supplied loads of rusty cars for racing and classics all beyond repair with the floor welded up and a coat of paint they look like they would go again as classics on the road but they are knackered its shows what you can do with a bit of gloss and tin sheet or angle iron but most of the so called classic owners dont even bother to to come and look when they are for sale or parts are offered or they want it all for nothing because they think they have a wright to because they are in the owners club, lets see who wants this then VANDEN PLAS 4 LITRE R, DRY STORED SINCE 1979,ORIGINAL CILLS,GOOD INNER WINGS,ENGINE TURNS GOOD INTERIOR AND WOOD,PAINT FADED WOULD POLISH UP......SO STOP MOANING AND COME AND BUY IT........£1500,07702031268

 

Regarding rigger booted morons: you'd need to be especially retarded to enjoy smashing that up rather than getting it MOT'd and smoking about in it. What a cool chariot that is. If it cost you a grand to get it one the road, it's a grand well spent.

 

However, the lower orders won't understand.

[RedSparrow]

[fordnut]

I'm all for racing (and have been involved in one way or another for years), although it is a shame when something extremely rare or a one-off gets raced but often these cars are worth less than the restoration costs so can't justifiably be saved. It does make it more interesting to see the older/rarer cars/some variety and there is some real showmanship that goes into preparing these cars and is associated with the sport. Some cars might take months to build, or travel hundreds of miles just to do half a lap. Those people that are really anti-bangers really need to see how much time and effort goes into it. Yes the odd stolen car has ended up on track and the banger community also despise this, but there are rogues in every sport (how many rally / drift cars get stolen??). The rigger boot wearing fluorescent jacket stereo type isn't really a true reflection of the sport and there is a real variety of people who are involved in racing, it is a 'working class sport' and by it's nature being associated with scrap/motor trade it does get tarred with a few stereotypes although it's not formula 1 at the end of the day. The cars do overtake one another! It's not just about smashing cars up, the cars are racing and most track surfaces are like driving on ice, it does take some skill to pilot a car to a win. A good quick car helps but there is a limit to how fast you can go on a quarter mile oval. Good Example:

 

 

Most of the vehicles raced are en-route to the crusher anyway and I think it is an absolute waste if a car that is raceable (competitive on track and safe to race) doesn't go out in a blaze of glory. Most people involved in racing are involved in the motor trade/scrap trade in one way or another and most racers are only delaying the inevitable.

 

The older classics are easier to prepare and build than modern FWD cars and require less specialist kit. Mondeos can be converted to carb with the right manifold and ECU but the older cars can't compete against them hence the popularity of the Classic Meetings. A MK2 Granada is hard car but the MK1/MK2 Mondeo is something else! RWD is far better than FWD on track, more modern cars don't necessary lend themselves to racing due to the amount of plastic in them, the way they are constructed, complexities of the engines, airbags, sensors etc Modern banger racing is very competitive and a lot of money is needed to compete at the top level (race engines, sticky tyres are spoiling the support to a certain extent), it is not a case of simply kicking the windows out and building the car on a Saturday before a meeting anymore. I remember racing pre-H frames and when you would mount the fuel tank on the parcel shelf on a Granada, the racing is much faster and harder than it ever was and the internet/banger mags have glorified the big hits and rare cars. You used to go to meeting never knowing who would turn up which was part of the excitement - you were always in for a treat if there was an invasion from the Surrey Street Squad etc

 

Racers prefer the older cars as they know how to build them, know how they will behave on track/fold up (the Sierra never really took off as a Banger as it folds up badly) and it makes it easier to carry out running repairs at a meeting. Cars take a lot of time, effort and money to get to the track and it's better to race something that is tried and tested that you've got the parts to repair or can borrow from someone at the meeting. Most of the modern stuff you see running is likely to be using running gear from an older Ford or Volvo where permitted. Cam / dizzy guards aren't permitted at some tracks / on certain vehicles so it rules some cars out of the equation.

 

I agree with the age old argument, it's your money and you can do what you want with it. The price of cars is relative to the scrap value, yes a fair amount of money is being paid for some cars but some of this is clawed back selling a few parts on from the vehicles which only goes back in most racers funds for the next car / fuel. There's a lot of cars out there that have benefitted from raced cars and many drivers also keep classics on the road. Occasionally the odd car that is to good to race ends up on track, but a serious amount of work goes in to cars to get them raceworthy (many are made up of parts from several cars) the dulux paint does hide the true condition and if you see a lot of cars close up or before they are built you will appreciate how much work has gone into getting them on track. I would agree that it does push the price of some cars up but would Austin Westministers, P5s, A60s and Granadas be so desirable if it wasn't for racing?!

 

The guy that's listing the 4R has much rarer and better condition Farinas than that so it wouldn't be worth his while to put it on the road and has more rotten cars for racing. I'm sure it's not something that has to be sold either way but he would probably let go for the right offer.

 

I love racing but at the same time supply NOS Ford Parts for Classic and Performance Fords for a living so I sit on both sides of the fence to a certain extent. I didn't start out working with cars either but left teaching to pursue one of my passions. Banger Racing is a friendly community and you'll often see the shaking of hands after big follow-in which you don't see in a lot of sports. I find racers always pay-up and if they want something they won't mess you around, whereas some classic car enthusiasts are a pain in the backside! Don't get me started on Larkin, if it were down to him Farinas would just be Parkin!

[mk1_4dr]

...supply NOS Ford Parts for Classic and Performance Fords for a living....

 

Erm, no wanting to derail the thread to much, but, I don't suppose you have or know of a pair of wings for a Mk1 Escort? Or any panels infact...

[Junkman]

Good Example:

 

 

 

Yawn. Halfway during the vid I went back to watching paint dry, which is comparatively exciting.

What a shame that so many nice shitemobiles have to die an unnecessary death for this nonsense.

[fordnut]

Junkman, it was just the first on-board video I found to link in on youtube, I could find some much more exciting racing and have seen some much better meetings than that!

 

MK14dr - I've got nothing in the way of panelwork for RWD models at the moment bar a pair of Frog Eye Front Wings. There is a lot of remanufactured MK1 panelwork on ebay at the moment but expect to pay a lot for genuine stuff.

[Junkman]

Banger racing is like football. If you've seen it once, you've seen it all.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The guy that's listing the 4R has much rarer and better condition Farinas than that so it wouldn't be worth his while to put it on the road and has more rotten cars for racing. I'm sure it's not something that has to be sold either way but he would probably let go for the right offer.

 

 

Fair enough, but it would be a crime to destroy it. In 1979 when it was worth 20 quid, someone put it away for the future. It was clearly a good example worth saving then so to banger it now would be an act of almost unparalleled stupidity. However, I suspect the oval is where it will end up.

 

I wonder if the XJ6 in the banger racing clip you put up has the XK engine? If memory serves, most Jag bangers fitted a Ford V6 - one good smack on the front and the Jag sump would break.

[2door]

Hey, Freebird, not everybody wanted your thread taking elsewhere. If it can stay civilised it's enjoyable, not everyone hates the sport.

 

2Door: You're not really doing yourself any favours there. I've seen this stock (no pun intended) reply before where a racer offers a car for sale then half an hour later starts whining that no classic car will buy it so it might as well be raced. Who is going to buy your VDP on the strength of a half arsed, ranty 'advert' like that? I suspect you're one of the tiny minority who go searching for threads like this on the web, assume everyone hates banger racing/racers, then you get all aeriated.

You're just fanning the flames there imho, and it won't help this debate at all.

 

*Sills, not 'cills'.

hi cavette why am i not doing my self any favours yeah they are pants photos but it was on the truck and couldnt get it of so quick photos someone might want to view,just pointing out the classic owners moan about saving cars and there to good to race some are,but i am not selling it as a banger i would like to see it get saved, i also have a cortina 2.0 s that was saved and will be for sale as a road going project not a banger i love searching to find rusty projects to save

[warren t claim]

I can't wait to take my boy to his first banger race, I'm sure he'll love it.

[jakebullet]

It's not really grass roots motorsport either is it? You need a pikey hiab for a start.

 

Grass roots to me is taking your landy 88" trialing. All you need is your existing car and an extra throttle spring.

[Charlie Croker]

In 1988 i went down to my local Ford breaker who was (is) a well known banger racer. He had a Sreg Mk2 Granada 2.8iS just in and i wanted to buy it as it was a rare car even then. I was told "no chance as its going to the track" i offered what i thought was good money (£500) and got the same answer the reason he gave was "its a manual and its rare". Now to top it all I'm a big fan of the t.v show The Sweeney and wanted the car as it was a sliver one and EXACTLY like the one in the show. I cant remember the reg number but i wonder????

[autofive]

charlie

 

the sweeney mk2 granada is well documented, you didnt see it in your local scrapyard in scotchland

[Mr_Bo11ox]

fookin wars, what a load of shite

[Albert Ross]

I think the phrase that is lost on the Banger Racing Haters is "Beyond Economical Repair". I have seen a number of "moderns" scrapped because of impending MOT bills. Cue a 51 plate Vectra I tested yesterday. Broken spring, seized parking brake linkage on one side and missing return spring. I sorted the brakes no problem, fitted a spring and retested it. But the advice runs into many hundreds. 6 brake pipes (one being the rear cross-axle one) two hoses, tyres, and othe rminor things. The likely bill might run to more than the value of the cart. Therefore it's going to be scrapped in the event it fails next year. A waste, yes, as anything could be sold on... but it's a generic blob of metal that has been churned out by the thousand at a drab factory in a conurbation somewhere in Europe. It stirs no souls, it jerks no heartstrings. Because it's a grey Vectra. In 20 years, it would gather a crowd, whilst 22 year old Fathers show their kids, saying things like "Your Grandad brought me home from Hospital in one of these.... it uses a thing called petrol, it has one of those noisy engines in it..." etc. If we want them saved, we should save them NOW, before they get shoved away for 25 years, and keep them preserved....

The 4 Litre R is one of the cars on my bucket list, and the above one is in a good colour, but I have no space or funds. TIme is running out, and I expect never to own one...... but one never knows. Good luck to the seller..... Do you do easy terms like a quid a week and a bit of spannering?

[RedSparrow]

Albert Ross: Your post just got me thinking actually. Would people nowadays actually squirrel modern cars away in garages to be discovered again in 20 years as has happened in the past? - in the past people used to maintain cars and make them last but now they are disposable just like washing machine etc.

What I'm saying is that in 20 years will there be any 20-30 year old cars left at all?

[Wilko220]

In 20-30 years time, many of today's cars will probably be useless because the software / computer equipment won't be available or will be obsolete!

[Split_Pin]

Albert Ross: Your post just got me thinking actually. Would people nowadays actually squirrel modern cars away in garages to be discovered again in 20 years as has happened in the past? - in the past people used to maintain cars and make them last but now they are disposable just like washing machine etc.

What I'm saying is that in 20 years will there be any 20-30 year old cars left at all?

 

I have done precisely that.

[Spiny Norman]

In 30 years time private motoring will probably be out of reach financially for us regular folks, so it's quite possibly a moot point.

 

Smoke 'em if you got 'em people.

[Mr Lobster]

In 30 years time private motoring will probably be out of reach financially for us regular folks, so it's quite possibly a moot point.

 

I honestly don't think it will. Things change but one way or the other we'll still be driving.

[freebird]

Albert Ross: Your post just got me thinking actually. Would people nowadays actually squirrel modern cars away in garages to be discovered again in 20 years as has happened in the past? - in the past people used to maintain cars and make them last but now they are disposable just like washing machine etc.

What I'm saying is that in 20 years will there be any 20-30 year old cars left at all?

 

I have done precisely that.

Tell all.

[Split_Pin]

Its at the bottom of my signature

 

In 25 years I'll probably do one of those You Tube Videos entitled 'First start after 25 years' of whatever form of communication we have then.

[freebird]

Its at the bottom of my signature

 

In 25 years I'll probably do one of those You Tube Videos entitled 'First start after 25 years' of whatever form of communication we have then.

Ah, so they are.

[Des]

I couldn't watch a banger race, it would bore me to death, but then so would any motorsport, football, whatever. It could be made fun though, who remembers the numerous barrymobiles that vanished just as the economic downturn was rolled out, where did they all go? I see two or three a month now usually just after pay/giro day, if they haven't all been fragged then why oh why are they not being raced? Now those I'd love to see getting smashed to fuck.

I accept that the general image of bangeristas is tainted, the wanker minority are the noisiest and most noticeable, and then there seems to be the ones who will destroy nice cars just to wind up cloth capped beardie wierdies, who then react in an equally puerile manner to fan the flames, best to just leave them to it. Probably fair to mention that an awful lot of wonderful rare old cars are destroyed before even the banger guys get a look in, I've been told of a Ford that sat in a lovely stone outbuilding since wartime, bulldozed together, a Bristol somewhere in the West Country has met the same fate of late, Westys, P5s, etc. are still getting dragged straight from garage to fraggage.

 

What about playing banger racers off against dubbers, divide and rule, get them to really hate each other so much that the banger boys swap their riggers for trendy trainers to infiltrate and then harvest nitromorsed stanced german shit from the unwitting dubchumps then dulux all over the radical, ironic, happnin' bro rust and stickers. All Swallowtail Meet, fuck yeah.

[Junkman]

I can't wait to take my boy to his first banger race, I'm sure he'll love it.

 

Of course he will. If he still does after he reached the age of 12 you should start worrying though.

[fordnut]

Albert Ross always talks sense - a lot of people really don't understand the concept of 'beyond economic repair'!

 

Yes, some rare and good cars get fragged without even hitting the track (a shame in my eyes!)

 

Unfortunately VWs are utter shite when it comes to racing as I love that idea Des! Citreons, Renaults (except 16s), Peugeots, BMWs, Skodas, Seats, Italian Cars, and Audis aren't much cop either. All the time Mondeos, and Ka's etc are plentiful for scrap money drivers aren't going to race bilge and the sort of motors that the benefits brigade would drive around in. These vehicles will continue to go straight over the bridge or will only really be used for Rookie events/limited cc/non-Ford meetings/FWD only/Micro/Domestic meeetings where they are more competitive.

 

Due to the way meetings are organised i.e. one-make/by MOT weight/Engine Size/Year of Manufacture certain vehicles will always be favoured particularly at National / Big Meetings where the racing is faster and often harder. Drivers prefer to race vehicles that they are familiar with or cars that are legible for more than one class or can be raced at more than one track / event competively.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Albert Ross always talks sense - a lot of people really don't understand the concept of 'beyond economic repair'!

 

Yes, some rare and good cars get fragged without even hitting the track (a shame in my eyes!)

 

Unfortunately VWs are utter shite when it comes to racing as I love that idea Des! Citreons, Renaults (except 16s), Peugeots, BMWs, Skodas, Seats, Italian Cars, and Audis aren't much cop either. All the time Mondeos, and Ka's etc are plentiful for scrap money drivers aren't going to race bilge and the sort of motors that the benefits brigade would drive around in. These vehicles will continue to go straight over the bridge or will only really be used for Rookie events/limited cc/non-Ford meetings/FWD only/Micro/Domestic meeetings where they are more competitive.

 

Due to the way meetings are organised i.e. one-make/by MOT weight/Engine Size/Year of Manufacture certain vehicles will always be favoured particularly at National / Big Meetings where the racing is faster and often harder. Drivers prefer to race vehicles that they are familiar with or cars that are legible for more than one class or can be raced at more than one track / event competively.

 

I wouldn’t choose to spend my time bangering cars. I would rather spend time, effort and money repairing them, but this makes me unusual – though obviously, not unusual on Autoshite.

 

I don’t condemn it either, provided the car being bangered isn’t rare. I own a popular banger race car – a Jaguar XJ40. I don’t like to see them raced but there are several thousand of them left, at least at the moment. Numbers are dwindling fast but it isn’t because Banger racers like them, it is because most people don’t want one and very few people are prepared to spend anything repairing them.

 

If the XJ40s being scrapped (often for trivial reasons) were being stored in yards for people like me to salvage parts from when making their uneconomic repairs then I would resent the racing of Forties – very much so. But this is not what is happening. They’re being crushed. If the choice is between crashed and crushed, you may as well crash it.

 

Incidentally, I have often wondered what makes certain cars so popular as bangers. Why do people race XJ40s and not BMWs and Audis?

[Formula Autos]

Maybe this whole subject has been looked at in the wrong way?

 

At present anyone rich/stupid enough to do it can buy any car they wish, whatever its value and/or provenance/rarity and, provided it passes the rudimentary scrutineering, can banger race it. It's their money and, currently, their car to do with as they wish. Legally, no wrong has taken place.

 

However, if it was forbidden in some way for this to happen with cars deemed historic or rare, then in theory the problem should go away. As someone has already suggested, how about the DVLA putting a 'marker' on certain cars? Maybe something like when they reach 30 years of age and/or get to a certain percentage of their original sales figures left in existence (which the computer could no doubt be programmed to figure out fairly easily) they are deemed to be 'historic', and so can only legally be scrapped if badly damaged in a crash, or deemed to be beyond economic repair at MOT time, or when an insurance assessment is carried out (say, if it's been vandalised). 'Historic' status would no doubt increase the cachet (and thus probably the value) of such cars, and would no doubt further encourage those who have them to either look after them, or punt them on to enthusiasts like us.

 

Maybe not a faultless plan, but as a starting point, how about it?

 

There will always be some bad apples who'll go around puying perfectly good P5s and the like to take to the oval, but at least under this system the DVLA (or whoever was running it) could, if they so choose, investigate the matter - like English Heritage do when someone does something wrong to a listed building, with prosecutions as deemed appropriate.

 

Vehicles are as much of the history of this country in the last century as some buildings are, being just as much part of the general street scene. So why shouldn't they be given a similar level of protection by the powers-that-be?

[Mash]

I dislike banger racing, it just looks like wanton destruction. If I was to put that amount of money and time into a car I'd want to enjoy it for more than 10 minutes after which it was a folded up tin can.

 

The way I see it is that because of various rules and regs, more modern cars are no good for it because they are fuel injected and too safe. That surely means that as time goes on the supply of suitable banger race will dry up? If only older "cherished" models are suitable then that will anger us even more as time goes on as they will be the ones sought out to be destroyed.

 

The line I've always taken about putting our money where our mouths are is that as someone else said earlier, many racers are in the trade. When cars come up, they might get first refusal, can jump in the beavertail and hop down at a moment's notice and be back in the lockup stripping it before we've even heard about it.

 

Added to which, if we want to rescue a car to restore we have to consider much more implications such as where the money is coming from for a long term job plus respray, what will the missus think, where am I going to keep it, how the fook can I get it home? It's just not as easy to restore a car as prepare it for a race in my opinion and that's why caras end up this way. It's frustrating because we feel powerless to do anything about it. Racers have a high turnover of cars, we can't do that in the main. How many times have we seen people say "I wish I had the resources to save that"?? I'd have loads of stuff if I could - I don't have bottomless pockets and an aircraft hanger.