DVLA fcukwits fail to register my SORN

[FredTransit]

filled out the SORN thing and posted it off back in early october. Forgot all about it and now have had a fine through the post. I wanted to email em as they won't entertain a discussion on the phone and don't trust the post (ok I could register it but why should I?). So I found a contact form and replied to thier reply. Basically what came back was a standard reply telling me how to pay the fine FFS!!

I AINT PAYIN IT!!!

Whats the latest on this? Is the DVLA in the wrong to have me prove I sent the SORN? Should I now SORN online?

[messerschmitt owner]

Sorn on line takes less time than finding a stamp.

[HillmanImp]

If you don't have proof of postage, from experience I reckon you are fucked. I send all things DVLA recorded delivery now.

 

However I always SORN online as its not difficult is it? Is there a good reason for not doing so?

[trigger]

I can't understand why you wouldn't SORN online these days?

[Pete-M]

Let 'em take you to court. They have to prove you didn't send it, and if you put it in the post box - which you obviously did - then you served it upon them by doing so.

 

Make sure you bill 'em for the day off work, travel expenses etc.

[scaryoldcortina]

I've had this recently - make sure you get to speak to someone from "Enforcement" - local office is best but you can get them on the phone. Tell them that you know you posted it, and you know that your legal obligation ends when you put it in the post. Usual result is that they drop the fine on the spot because they won't win in court.

[FredTransit]

well they wont talk about it at all on the phone. No email on the letter either. Cant for the life of me think why I posted it. I shall wait for further developments. I did put in the email my defense was I posted it and thats all.

[In The Pit]

I do it at the Post Office as they give you a receipt to prove you sorn it, that way any problems they can take it up with the PO. Also I go to the Post Office because if you don't use them they will close (as they are now) it means staff keep their jobs and it keeps services available to non computer users like senior citizens and people who refuse to embrace modern technology (aka fucking heroes).

[pandarus]

I got stung for 40 rubs a couple of months ago. B#stards!

[HillmanImp]

Let 'em take you to court. They have to prove you didn't send it, and if you put it in the post box - which you obviously did - then you served it upon them by doing so.

 

Make sure you bill 'em for the day off work, travel expenses etc.

 

I don't understand how anyone ever gets a fine then? Even if I don't post it, I can say that I did and they will have to prove otherwise.

 

In this case this law works in your favour. However what if it is the other way round? What if an insurance company cancelled your insurance for some reason and you did not get the letter. If you crashed your car then you are FUCKED without even knowing. I know that this is BIG MONEY for the Post Office but I think that I would be happy paying £1.50 for important docs to be sent properly to me so i know whats going on rather then relying on my unreliable post.

[Guest]

I forget the finer details but I think tis the Postal Services Act of 1984 is your friend.

It says that 'a letter committed to the postal service is deemed to have been received by the recipient' - use this in your favour.

[Split_Pin]

^^Pretty sure this could be circumvented in Court. In my line of work, important legal documents have to be served on the defendant in person at their home address. If not, the defendant could have a case if they said they were oblivious to the situation.

 

In the same light, I'm pretty sure some drongo at DVLA could claim the same if it went that far.

 

I declared both my Astra and Vectra SORN this year online. Although it showed almost immediately on the Vehicle Enquiry function, I still got a reminder for the Vectra at the beginning of last month.

 

I've ignored it and nothing has happened so far.

 

I'd just pay the fine and next time do the job yourself online. Saves having to speak to them and the great big waste of time that is the Court System.

[Guest]

Hey it worked for me! but it is all in the delivery and structure of your case.

The DVLA lady laughed when I quoted it and said that's what they quote when issuing letters regarding fines.

Result - SORN fine quashed.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Let 'em take you to court. They have to prove you didn't send it, and if you put it in the post box - which you obviously did - then you served it upon them by doing so.

 

Make sure you bill 'em for the day off work, travel expenses etc.

 

This.

 

The fault is with Royal Mail. When you bought that stamp and stuck the letter in the red box, you paid them do do a job. They either failed or DVLA have lost it.

 

Write back explaining that you would like your day in court.

[CortinaDave]

Yep, as has been said above, once you've dropped it in the postbox your responsibility under the law ends. You are NOT required to prove you HAVE posted it, the DVLA have to prove that you didnt, which they cant. They know this, but they chance their arm anyway.

 

Write back asking for your day in court. They have been known to push it as far as actually getting a court date, but if you show up they drop it straight away.

[FredTransit]

Hey it worked for me! but it is all in the delivery and structure of your case.

The DVLA lady laughed when I quoted it and said that's what they quote when issuing letters regarding fines.

Result - SORN fine quashed.

 

Nice.I like it. I cant get any body to dicuss it on the phone though. The only person l spoke to kept repeating they dont enter into the matter over the phone, and admitted the call wasnt being recorded despite an announcement to the contrary. I rang the number on the letter.

[Guest]

Beware though that it says somewhere that if you don't receive confirmation of their receipt of your SORN in 28(?) days then you need to contact them.

I just referred back to the aforementioned Postal Services Act and does their 'legislation' over ride that Act and give them the right to fine without fair trial too?

Hey like I said it worked for me and I'm a cheeky sod who doesn't get sweary but makes my point!

 

Keep a note of when you phoned them. Duration. Who you spoke to. Minutes of said convo. Hey I may sound like a dork but for a £80 saving who cares!

 

EDIT: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... ver%20SORN this is interstign as it goes on to say that DVLA have to prove you didn't post the form AND had no intention.

[Rebuilda]

If you do have to go to court have a counter claim prepared for expenses, loss of earnings etc.

I agree with the previous posters though, a letter in the post is considered as delivered in the eyes of the law. It would be down to the DVLA to prove otherwise.

[In The Pit]

The fault is with Royal Mail. When you bought that stamp and stuck the letter in the red box, you paid them do do a job. They either failed or DVLA have lost it.

 

I would say its most likely the Royal Mail did their job and delivered it and the DVLA have lost it. I sometimes think when the mail gets delivered to the DVLA they just chuck it straight in the bin.

[406V6]

Why take the risk dealing with proven dimwits who seemingly just chuck stuff in the bin when you can do it in an instant on line ? Take a screenshot of the transaction and you have the proof.

[Andrew353w]

I do it at the Post Office as they give you a receipt to prove you sorn it, that way any problems they can take it up with the PO. Also I go to the Post Office because if you don't use them they will close (as they are now) it means staff keep their jobs and it keeps services available to non computer users like senior citizens and people who refuse to embrace modern technology (aka fucking heroes).

 

TOTALLY AGREE!!! I now pay my car tax, council tax, mobile phone bill & anything else I can at the Post Office! The Post Office should be like the NHS and be ring-fenced. I remember the National Girobank, which worked through the Post Office & it was BRILLIANT!!!

 

 

Giro never gave overdrafts & was simple and easy to use. It never sold dirivitives (whatever they are) ran hedge funds or sold dodgy PPI schemes. Sorry, I realise I've gone off topic here. Maybe my love of the Post Office & Girobank is because I'm significantly over 50 years of age....

[CortinaDave]

Beware though that it says somewhere that if you don't receive confirmation of their receipt of your SORN in 28(?) days then you need to contact them.

.

 

 

This doesn't matter. The DVLA aren't legally entitled to enforce this and you have no legal requirement to contact them if you dont recieve an acknowlegement. In the eyes of the law, your responsibility starts and ends at putting it in the post box. If you do that, in the eyes of the court it is deemed served... and its the DVLAs responsibility to prove you didn't post it, not yours to prove you did. End of. Write them a letter pointing this out and simply say that you will defend it happily in court.

 

If they want to argue the 28 days thing, simply ask them which law specifies you must do this. They can't, cos there isn't one. They know this.

[autofive]

as dave says

 

always works for me

 

and just to confuse things further I always reply to their demands for money in barely illegible handwriting and huge letters in an odd colour felt-tip pen (purple last time) They don't seem to like that, as they never reply

[barefoot]

Beware though that it says somewhere that if you don't receive confirmation of their receipt of your SORN in 28(?) days then you need to contact them.

 

I think that this has changed.

When I last SORNED - the website said that I wouldn't be getting confirmation & I haven't.

[FredTransit]

Beware though that it says somewhere that if you don't receive confirmation of their receipt of your SORN in 28(?) days then you need to contact them.

 

I think that this has changed.

When I last SORNED - the website said that I wouldn't be getting confirmation & I haven't.

 

well that goes in my favour then. Should I SORN online now or will it make me look guilty?

[KruJoe]

Take a screenshot of the transaction and you have the proof.

This ^

I can't be bothered with all the PO guff, and I live miles from one anyway.

Online is simple, and you can do it in just your underwear. I always want some proof of owt that could come back to bite me, so I have loads of files of screen grabs on my computer. Date and time they were taken are logged automatically too.

 

They should email reminders too, prolly more reliable than snailmail, and I could easily take care of it as I spend chunks of the year away in the foreign.

[simmo]

I got sent a fine through for a car I had declared SORN online about three month ago. It appears that if after buying the motor you get back the new V5 and then declare it SORN online before the previous owner has claimed the tax back the car status changes to unlicenced when the tax is refunded. I sent off the SORN print out by registered signed for post and got the no further action letter back but still a pointless faff.

[FredTransit]

so should l SORN it online now?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Why not?

[Pete-M]

and breathe......