Honest John - as mad as a wasp.

[Micrashed]

Been spending my morning looking at car websites wondering whether to keep the wifes car going as long as possible (in which case I'll be forking out for a belts, tensioners and water pump change) or buy something else when I came across the Q&A section of Honest Johns website and having read about a dozen or so I am of the conclusion he is as mad as a box of frogs and needs locking up.

 

F'r instance.

My cam belt broke at 56000 miles on my 5 1/2 year old car (servicng schedule advises changing at 150000 miles or 10 years) damaging the valve gear. The garage spoke to citroen about a goodwill contribution to the repair costs. Citroen agreed to contribute a percentage of the cost of the spares if the garage was prepared to match it. The garage said that there were 2 roads to go, 1 was to go through the top and repair what they could see damaged, this had worked on 2 litre engines but they'd never had a 1.6 litre go. the 2nd was to strip down further to make sure they'd done properly the 1st way would cost around £1500 the 2nd they estimated the repair would cost upto £3000 of which my share would be up to a "worst case scenario" of £1470.14 + vat. I spoke to Citroen but they said that the warranty was obviously well out of date so they could only discuss goodwill with the dealer. I choose the 2nd option yesterday (10 days later) they rang to say that they had carried out the repair and when they tried to start the engine it couldn't be timed because they think the cam shaft sprockets were pushed out of line and it appears that the flywheel has been ripped away. This would probobly double the cost of the repair, what did I want to do. I said that this was pushing the repair costs beyond the value of the car and it still wouldn't garuantee the repair to work. I asked where I stood cost wise if I called a halt now. They said they would consult the gen.man and suggested I spoke to Citroen again which I did. Citroen said they could only discuss it with the dealer. Today the dealer has lent me a courtessy car til they sort things out. They have just rung me to say if I decide to not proceded any further with the repair they will not charge any parts and labour and will give me £200 for the car. I'd value your opinion on this sorry tale.

 

Take the 2nd repair route offered by the dealer. £1,470 VAT. Worth it.

 

Yes, but he has done this and the car still doesnt work, so what he is asking is should he leave the car and run, taking the £200, or start a long battle to get it fixorated and try to recoup some of the costs from the dealer or Citroen you stupid stupid fool.

 

This is the worst one I have come across so far, but there are loads, simply loads, where whoever is answering the question doesnt read the wuestion, or doesnt understand the question...

 

My estimation of this website has gone down several hundred points now.

Gaaaaahhhhhh, Im so angry

[carlo]

10 year/150,000 miles replacement cycle on a cambelt? £3,000 repair bills? Join Autoshite!

[Ross_K]

A 5 1/2-year old car? Surely that's not in warranty?

 

Citroen should have told the owner to fuck off, and not to be such a mong.

[Split_Pin]

What car has a timing belt interval of 150,000 miles?

[DSdriver]

My Volvo 940 did before I eventually got around to changing it.

[Ross_K]

When I see Citroen, 1.6, and 150,000 cambelt interval in the same story I think a 1.6HDi is the engine in question. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

To be honest (no pun intended) the owner's lucky the turbo didn't go bang at 50,000 miles. That seems to be the main failure mode for this engine.

 

Our fleet of Berlingos and Partners at work all use this piece of shit engine. The service book has 20,000km oil change intervals.

 

This is the kind of thing fleet managers want to see - 150,000mile cambelt intervals, 20,000km oil change intervals. They offload the van (or car) back to the leasing company before the cambelt ever "needs" to be done, or having had maybe 3 or 4 oil changes in its life.

 

The next owner reaps the benefits...

 

BMW and Ford use this engine too - anybody tell me what their cambelt and service intervals are?

[fiatdaft]

20000 km oil change intervals is actually fairly low for a modern.

[Cavcraft]

I know the square root of eff all about engines and what not but....

 

'...when they tried to start the engine it couldn't be timed because they think the cam shaft sprockets were pushed out of line and it appears that the flywheel has been ripped away...'

 

can that be right? Wouldn't they have tried to time it up by lining up marks on the pully, and surely whilst fitting the new belt they'd have noticed if the sprockets were out of line, if not the flywheel ripped away? Is it not possible they didn't realise the sprockets were out/didn't bother lining things up correctly then started the engine and farked it even more?

[gtd2000]

A 5 1/2-year old car? Surely that's not in warranty?

 

Citroen should have told the owner to fuck off, and not to be such a mong.

 

That's not quite the situation - this is all about "durability" surely?

 

If the expected life of the product is not achieved, you have rights beyond the factory warranty, as the product was was not suitable for the purpose.

[Ross_K]

"Durability"?

Come on. You're in America aren't you? People change their oil every five thousand miles, and I'm sure they don't leave cambelts on for 150,000 miles. That's how you make an engine durable. Change the oil and cambelt REGULARLY.

 

These ludicrous intervals on Peugeots, Citroens and others are there to satisfy fleet managers and nobody else.

 

And I could have been hallucinating, but I remember seeing a billboard advertising a Fiat Doblo van with a 30,000km service interval...

[gtd2000]

That's true on many points. The manufactureri s the one specifying the interval, so that's the expected durability.

 

Different story if they say 50k and you decide to wait until 100k.

 

The US oil change scam is supposedly traced back to Jiffy Lube.

[gtd2000]

For what its worth, the cambelt on my mums old Mazda 121 wasn't changed once in 14 years...

 

The oil was also changed either once every year or two years depending on what time of year I was back in Scotland.

[solid61]

Sounds to me like the repairers have messed up the job and are trying to cover themselves with a bonfire of bullshit.Some types of camshaft drive gears have no keyway to locate them to the shaft ,therefore the camshafts must be locked in position and the cam drive gears can be moved around easily after loosening the bolts that hold them to the camshaft.This method can and should acheive perfect cam timing because it can compensate for any slack in the cambelt.If the drive gears are out of line and the engine wont run it must be the fault of the repairer,there is no excuse, the timing must be checked twice at least before any attempt is made to start the engine.Also if the flywheel is supposed to be ripped away? how would you be able to start the engine? the starter needs to engage with something?.

[Ross_K]

That's true on many points. The manufactureri s the one specifying the interval, so that's the expected durability.

 

The US oil change scam is supposedly traced back to Jiffy Lube.

 

Your service book may also say the intervals are halved for "extreme duty". That's not driving across the Sahara, that's town driving or stop-start driving.

 

So Grandad Giffer who drives down to the Post Office to collect his pension might not have a 10yr/150k cambelt interval, but instead a 5yr/75k cambelt interval.

 

And he probably doesn't know that cos he didn't RTFM.

 

Anyway, a 5 1/2yr old car is out of warranty whatever way you look at it. Citroen don't give a crap if you never buy another of their 1.6HDi wonders, and I'm surprised they gave the guy in the story the time of day. Plenty more suckers out there...

[gtd2000]

That's true on many points. The manufactureri s the one specifying the interval, so that's the expected durability.

 

The US oil change scam is supposedly traced back to Jiffy Lube.

 

Your service book may also say the intervals are halved for "extreme duty". That's not driving across the Sahara, that's town driving or stop-start driving.

 

So Grandad Giffer who drives down to the Post Office to collect his pension might not have a 10yr/150k cambelt interval, but instead a 5yr/75k cambelt interval.

 

And he probably doesn't know that cos he didn't RTFM.

 

Anyway, a 5 1/2yr old car is out of warranty whatever way you look at it. Citroen don't give a crap if you never buy another of their 1.6HDi wonders, and I'm surprised they gave the guy in the story the time of day. Plenty more suckers out there...

 

Still, the problem has occured at a time and distance well below the recommendations of the manufacturer.

 

They've also offered to do some "goodwill" repairs on the car. If they had no liability at all, they would have told the owner to swing and quoted the warranty duration.

 

When something like this happens, it would be much better for the manufacturer to take care of the problem and reap the rewards of the feedback that the owner gives.

 

I can't recommend anybody buying a KIA Picanto due to the likelihood of Crankshaft Pulley Bolt Failure, which is an inherent factory defect and was eventually repaired free of charge by KIA. If they'd taken care of it without the extra effort - I'd have been singing their praises to all who would listen.. I still think it's a cracking little budget run around.

[willswitchengage]

Been scouring the interweb hoping to find a discrepancy but nope Ford, Poogeot and Volvo all also spec 150,000mls/10 year intervals on the 1.6s. Obviously, yes, that's a very low failure age for any modern car but sadly I don't think there's much the owner can do if it's out of warranty, regardless of it I'm sure being serviced to PSA spec every year

[gtd2000]

Been scouring the interweb hoping to find a discrepancy but nope Ford, Poogeot and Volvo all also spec 150,000mls/10 year intervals on the 1.6s. Obviously, yes, that's a very low failure age for any modern car but sadly I don't think there's much the owner can do if it's out of warranty, regardless of it I'm sure being serviced to PSA spec every year

 

That's what they (the manufacturer) want you to think of course.

 

The sale of goods act may say otherwise.

 

This may well be a one off failure of a cambelt at a low mileage (shit happens) but if this is something that happens with regularity - something is certainly wrong.

[Guest]

My C4 is a 1.6 HDi and far from being a 'piece of shit engine', it's actually pretty decent. The cambelt interval is listed at 150,000 miles and the oil gets done every 10k according to my handbook. The injectors need cleaning because it over-fuels on start up.

 

I normally have the oil done and servicing done to spec every 8-9,000 miles. It's just gone past 100k and I'd like the belt doing sooner rather than later. The local Citroen garage will not be getting the job - it'll go either to my local indie place or to SCTSH_ANDY.

If it went bang tomorrow, I wouldn't be chasing Citroen for a repair. They couldn't have given less of a flying fuck when things went wrong within the warranty (front discs, front pads, 4 x rear wheel bearings, wipers, glovebox lid) so I doubt very much whether they'd care less now.

 

And before the usual suspects pipe up with 'brakes and wheel bearings aren't warranty items' they failed between five and ten thousand miles (repeatedly in the case of the rear wheel bearings) when the car was less than 18 months old. Yes, I put a lot of miles on the car quickly (commuting between Crewe and Altrincham six days a week) and to be told the manufacturer wouldn't even contribute and that I should 'stop wasting [the dealer's] time because you're clearly thrashing the car' was more than a bit insulting, especially when I was also paying out every month on finance. When rear wheel bearings were £148 + VAT a side, you can see why my patience quickly ran out when I wasn't overloading it, ragging it or smacking it up and down kerbs.

 

Took the new car shine right off the fucking thing, I can tell you. Now that I've had most of the stupid, shitheaded faults ironed out of it (for example, by people who actually know how to balance a wheel and tyre) the car's reliable and does what I expect of it. That's all I wanted. That's why I still have it. That's why I can't be arsed getting rid of it and would rather just maintain it rather than put up with the usual car dealer horseshit of 'oh these are worthless \ that's a lot of miles for the age \ somehow this piss basic Golf \ Astra \ 308 costs £18k blah blah bollocks drone blah'.

 

I still don't really see the benefits of buying a new car when the dealer \ manufacturer won't help in the slightest when there's a mechanical problem compounded with depreciation and finance payments. I won't be buying new again. Most of the major dealer networks near me are shit and have an appalling reputation for customer service, unlike that lovely shoe selling company who that share their name with a colossal car outlet.

 

But hey, fuck it, look how low my road tax is!

[face]

FAO Ross_K

 

Jizz in my pants?

[Ross_K]

You know it.