Renault to axe Laguna, Espace, Modus and... Wind!

[Father Ted]

Now thats interesting, the Logan looks longer than the Mk1 Kangaroo, and with side open rather than sliding rear passenger doors, but at 9600 Euro (£7980) I could see it selling in the UK - looking at it, with very little jigging about it could potentially be a 7 seater (like Fiat did with the Doblo).

Same with the van and pick up if the prices were kept the same, I expect they would sell and quite well. Not overly sure about the Logan saloon - I dont think it would sell in spadefulls in the UK, but I can see a viable market for the Sandero with the entry level car at 7300 Euro (£6073).

[RENOMAD]

Now thats interesting, the Logan looks longer than the Mk1 Kangaroo, and with side open rather than sliding rear passenger doors, but at 9600 Euro (£7980) I could see it selling in the UK - looking at it, with very little jigging about it could potentially be a 7 seater (like Fiat did with the Doblo).

Same with the van and pick up if the prices were kept the same, I expect they would sell and quite well. Not overly sure about the Logan saloon - I dont think it would sell in spadefulls in the UK, but I can see a viable market for the Sandero with the entry level car at 7300 Euro (£6073).

 

The MCV is a 7-seat version--ala Laguna 1

 

http://www.netcarshow.com/dacia/2009-logan_mcv/

 

http://www.dacia.it/

[dollywobbler]

I've never driven a C5 (not even a Sinclair C5!), but can the coil-sprung one really go through speedbumps (the bigger, ramp-type ones) at 25mph without its passengers suffering noticeable discomfort? I've only had that experience in a Xantia with new spheres, and it's the only hydropneumatic car I've ever driven.

 

I can't comment on that specifically, as I can't remember. I did once almost get it into the air after misjudging a fenland road though! It was scary but not uncomfortable...

 

2CVs can handle speed humps as well as a hydro-Cit though. In fact, the bigger Hydro-Cits can actually get caught out by speed humps and humpback bridges as the suspension can't always react in time. The CX ground out a few times...

[warren t claim]

I think we should lobby Peugeot to start a budget brand called Talbot in the UK and Simca in mainland Europe.

[Felly Magic]

I think at one point they were thinking about it with some really shit cars. You never know, if Dacia does well, anything could happen.

[R9UKE]

The C5 is one of my favourite cars. A decent 3.0 V6 Exclusive SE can now be had for £500. I should never have sold the last one I had. I had the Laguna V6 at the same time and it was amazing how different the two were.

 

[chaseracer]

The French government are currently battling the Renault family who are trying to get their firm back, that was stolen from them under the nazi occupation of Germany as well I've heard.

 

Yes it was........

Not quite.

 

Immediately after the war, Louis Renault was accused of collaboration with the Nazis, imprisoned, had the shit kicked out of him in various imaginative ways, and died. The company was nationalised, becoming popularly known as La Regie. It's alleged that suggestions of Louis' collaboration may have been exaggerated, hence the Renault heirs' continuing attempts to regain control of the firm.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

The worst part is that the Regie subsequently got privatised and the family got sweet FA. Not even a few shares as a consolation prize.

[Guest]

Feckin right,you lot pay more for cars than we do up here!

 

I still wouldn't buy a car from Arnold Clark. They have an appalling reputation for customer service where I live. I'd rather pay the extra and get a car from a dealership that gives a shit.

[Guest]

When you can buy an Audi A1 (a very neat thing with a good badge) for £13'000

 

Yes, but to get an A1 with anything in it you're looking at at least £17K. I know this because MOTHA_WAT has one. I take your point on how close the 'normal' marques are on price though. If the 'premium' folk can do a loss leader for that sort of money, Joe Public's gonna get financed up to their tits in their showrooms, because it's aspirational.

 

Personally, I think the A1's a fucking ugly little runt with a stupid interior and fuck all space inside. M_W's has a shit diesel engine that you have to row along with the gearstick. You cannot drive it smoothly in town because to make it move, you have to slam the accelerator to the bulkhead, and that spools the turbo up to OMG FULL LOAD and suddenly you're doing 6000 mph down Washway Road. I've driven cars from the fucking 80's that have smoother power delivery than that damn thing.

 

And I'd rather eat my own shit than spend £13K on a Juke. Most of the UK disagrees with me, but then again, it's their money. I wouldn't spend THEIR money on a Puke, either.

[Justin Case]

Depressingly, Renault are probably on the right track; whatever their other virtues buyers of new cars have become boring and unimaginative in their choice of car. So amongst friends and relatives, new cars recently bought have included Auris, Civic, Fiesta, Kia Rio and Passat, but the secondhand ones have included Chrysler Crossfire, Mercedes C Class Coupe (the early one), W202 C Class, Mazda 6 2.3 Sport 4x4 (not mine ) and Berlingo.

 

The Dacias deserve to succeed but it, but it took Kia and Hyundai about 10-15 years to get established in the UK with cheap and cheerful but reliable cars so I don't hold out much hope. I even worry that interesting cars like those on the list above will disappear from the forecourts by the time I'm looking for something else

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

When you can buy an Audi A1 (a very neat thing with a good badge) for £13'000

 

Yes, but to get an A1 with anything in it you're looking at at least £17K. I know this because MOTHA_WAT has one. I take your point on how close the 'normal' marques are on price though. If the 'premium' folk can do a loss leader for that sort of money, Joe Public's gonna get financed up to their tits in their showrooms, because it's aspirational.

 

Personally, I think the A1's a fucking ugly little runt with a stupid interior and fuck all space inside. M_W's has a shit diesel engine that you have to row along with the gearstick. You cannot drive it smoothly in town because to make it move, you have to slam the accelerator to the bulkhead, and that spools the turbo up to OMG FULL LOAD and suddenly you're doing 6000 mph down Washway Road. I've driven cars from the fucking 80's that have smoother power delivery than that damn thing.

 

And I'd rather eat my own shit than spend £13K on a Juke. Most of the UK disagrees with me, but then again, it's their money. I wouldn't spend THEIR money on a Puke, either.

 

I get what you're saying. But depreciation is savage on most cars even PREMIUM ASPIRASHONUL OMG but the Juke and A1 will have really solid residuals for a long time. Budget stuff devalues from £8000 to £250 bridge money in 7 years.

 

More than ever, the trick is to make cars that capture the imagination that fold are queuing up to buy. By the time you're giving them away with cornflakes Peugeot style, the writing is on the wall. Has anyone mentioned the Dacia warranty yet? We know via the Kia crank bolt dramas that the 7 year warranty isn't really worth a wank, but it's a great sales pitch.

[RENOMAD]

When you can buy an Audi A1 (a very neat thing with a good badge) for £13'000

 

Yes, but to get an A1 with anything in it you're looking at at least £17K. I know this because MOTHA_WAT has one. I take your point on how close the 'normal' marques are on price though. If the 'premium' folk can do a loss leader for that sort of money, Joe Public's gonna get financed up to their tits in their showrooms, because it's aspirational.

 

Personally, I think the A1's a fucking ugly little runt with a stupid interior and fuck all space inside. M_W's has a shit diesel engine that you have to row along with the gearstick. You cannot drive it smoothly in town because to make it move, you have to slam the accelerator to the bulkhead, and that spools the turbo up to OMG FULL LOAD and suddenly you're doing 6000 mph down Washway Road. I've driven cars from the fucking 80's that have smoother power delivery than that damn thing.

 

And I'd rather eat my own shit than spend £13K on a Juke. Most of the UK disagrees with me, but then again, it's their money. I wouldn't spend THEIR money on a Puke, either.

 

I get what you're saying. But depreciation is savage on most cars even PREMIUM ASPIRASHONUL OMG but the Juke and A1 will have really solid residuals for a long time. Budget stuff devalues from £8000 to £250 bridge money in 7 years.

 

More than ever, the trick is to make cars that capture the imagination that fold are queuing up to buy. By the time you're giving them away with cornflakes Peugeot style, the writing is on the wall. Has anyone mentioned the Dacia warranty yet? We know via the Kia crank bolt dramas that the 7 year warranty isn't really worth a wank, but it's a great sales pitch.

 

The Dacia Warranty across Europe is 3yrs/100,000kms.

 

And while on the subject,,,,All Fluences sold over here(we have it since 2010)have a 5yr Unlimited Mileage Warranty. Lagunas also have had that since 2010 , though we are back to a 3yr/100,000 for 2011(while stocks last I would assume).

[AnthonyG]

I agree with Wat, a £13K A1 would be fairly grim for anyone who likes driving. But for pensioners or wannabe WAGs it's cheaper than an boggo A3.

 

Car magazines are responsible for price inflation, IMHO. How What Car can describe the Range Rover Evoque (£28- £40K) as a alternative 'family' car I don't know. Only for those whose current family car is a Disco/E class/A6/5 series Touring maybe.

 

The other thing I think that any manufacturers who survive on upper-medium 'premium' sales whilst competing with the German trio is on a hiding to nothing. Look at Saab's demise, and the slump in Alfa sales since the 159 came out. Volvo have also lost their way in the past few years, branding wise, and Jaguar seem to be doing well by avoiding direct competition with the 3/5/7 series etc model.

 

Don't know about Dacia, could work like Skoda did, or maybe not. I think Kia and Hyundai grew due to the 'Asian' image, and a lot of development/marketing spend (backed up by the best warranties in the business). Other 'Asian' brands like Proton have just died away.

[Cavcraft]

Aren't Jaguar competing with the 7 series at least with the XF or XJ? The XF looks a fantastic car and the XJ is no ugly mug either.

[fiatdaft]

3 series = x-type

 

5 series = xf

 

7 series = xj

[Cavcraft]

That's what I thought but looking on Jag's website just now I couldn't see the 'X' type. Would imagine the 'S' type was the previous competitor to the 5 series.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

the slump in Alfa sales since the 159 came out

 

Not strictly true - the Giulietta and Mito sell quite well. The 159 flopped because a) it's not that great - drives and sounds like a 2003 Mondeo 156 owners and previous 156 fleet buyers won't be making that mistake again. Once bitten etc.

[Polystratus]

That's the first I've heard about shit 1.2 Fabias by the way. What the hell had they done to it? I know of several Fabias now (mk1s) that are well into 6 figure miles and still going. 5 minutes with a VAG.com reader often pinpoints faults, and they aren't as expensive to fix.

 

Mines getting for seven years old and its been the best car ever, never broke down once, if you go on Briskoda theres always someone saying how shit they are - even new ones since it doesn't have billions of bhp or torque

 

Not a big surprise really, none are big sellers, Wind (which is Twingo based) just hasn't sold at all. Surprises me that Renault are putting so much faith in the electric Fluence though which is possibly Europes blandest car. Really can't see that being the saviour of many Renault dealers somehow. Laguna must be one of the worst depreciating cars out there so fleets will have run away from that and private buyers wouldn't be common anyway even without the poor reputation.

 

 

Like me, I know of several people at work were considering buying an electric car but been put off by the price, the range, and apparently for Renault electric cars you wont own the batteries you have to rent them.

[dollywobbler]

That's what I thought but looking on Jag's website just now I couldn't see the 'X' type. Would imagine the 'S' type was the previous competitor to the 5 series.

 

They binned the X Type a couple of years ago I think. Good choice because I thought it cheapened the brand a bit too much.

[AnthonyG]

 

Not strictly true - the Giulietta and Mito sell quite well. The 159 flopped because a) it's not that great - drives and sounds like a 2003 Mondeo 156 owners and previous 156 fleet buyers won't be making that mistake again. Once bitten etc.

 

yes - noticed a lot of Giulietta's about at the moment. Lets hope they hold together better than the 156s. Isn't a 159 related to a GM platform from the brief Fiat-GM romance from the early 2000's?

[CIH]

 

Not strictly true - the Giulietta and Mito sell quite well. The 159 flopped because a) it's not that great - drives and sounds like a 2003 Mondeo 156 owners and previous 156 fleet buyers won't be making that mistake again. Once bitten etc.

 

yes - noticed a lot of Giulietta's about at the moment. Lets hope they hold together better than the 156s. Isn't a 159 related to a GM platform from the brief Fiat-GM romance from the early 2000's?

 

Doubt it. They don't share any suspension/chassis at all. Plus GM do tleast get them reasonably straight where as every single Alfa I've ever seen has been absolutly banana'd.

[Vinylseats]

 

Next Laguna to be a crossover

 

Renault boss hints that its Laguna and Espace models will return as crossovers

 

Renault has dropped its biggest clues yet as to what it is planning for its Laguna and Espace replacements.

 

Both models are to be axed from the UK line-up due to low sales, and the company is already looking ahead to the next-generation models.

 

UK managing director Thierry Sybord said: “If we come up with the same sort of car as the Laguna and Espace, we will have the same results. But if we can come up with new concepts, there may be an opportunity for us.â€Â

 

And that is likely to mean crossovers. Sybord continued: “The situation is like when Nissan got rid of the Primera and went with the Qashqai and Juke. It works.â€Â

 

It is not yet decided whether the replacement models will come to the UK, however. “The D-segment car [Laguna] will be difficult,†admitted Sybord. “Customers tend to be quite conservative. With the Espace I think there is more to play with.â€Â

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/276625/next_laguna_to_be_a_crossover.html

[R9UKE]

Oh brilliant. Another dribbly Qashqai rival. Can't wait...

[Craig the Princess]

Oh brilliant. Another dribbly Qashqai rival. Can't wait...

 

Relax, being a renault it will have one door or a supercharged 1.3 litre V9 engine or an interior made from cuban cigars.

[dollywobbler]

Oh brilliant. Another dribbly Qashqai rival. Can't wait...

 

Surely Renault have already played the Espace crossover card rather badly (if also brilliantly) with the Avantime?

[Felly Magic]

There was the Espace Quadra at one point too!

[R9UKE]

The Quadra! Espace with four wheel drive... was there a need!???? A chap on the Avantime Club has one, they're ultra rare.

 

[Felly Magic]

It was all the rage to have a 4x4 in the range at that time. We had the Chavalier 4x4, Sierra XR4x4, Granada 4x4, and the 21 Quadra too I believe.

[chaseracer]

I saw the UK's other Koleos in Malvern this afternoon - it looked quite presentable in black...