Renault to axe Laguna, Espace, Modus and... Wind!

[fiatdaft]

Uncle arnie will discount them,if he sells them of course!

[Renault18]

I'll just park this here...

 

 

 

WANT!

 

Look, when I was in France in the summer, I was amazed. Amazed at just how many Dacias there were EVERYWHERE. So I went to several dealers to have a look - and I was amazed again. IF - and it is IF - the build quality of the Dacias that land here is anywhere near as good as the ones I saw, then they really will give the bargain basement end of the market something to think about. I was concerned that they were probably stealing sales, but the message was that they have just added another dimension to the range. The Modus was singled out as the car most likely to be part exchanged for a Dacia, the rest were new customers.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but after spending most of the ealy part of the new millenium building completely unreliable crap, the current range just doesn't go wrong. Sadly some dealers have built themselves on counting on a supply of warranty work - one of my local dealers was quite open in saying that if all of the fat-arsed Meganes had been as good as the 2007 onwards models, they'd have struggled.

 

I agree - the new Megane is boring - the hatch looks like an Astra and I don't really know what they look like. The estate is nowhere near as nice as the previous model.

 

However, I've just taken delivery of my second coupe, this time a diesel, which is ace and is currently doing just over 65mpg - residual value at trade was also excellent. Sorry, but I still have no reason not to buy Renault.

[ruffgeezer]

We'll see if you say that when the turbo swallows it's seals, the engine runs away on the black stuff and it ends by the sound of something large and metallic shitting itself from under the bonnet...

 

It may seem I'm being unfair, but Renault are supposed to be one of the big car firms, hell if the bottom end of the market can knock out better cars, cheaper, what chance have they got?

[chaseracer]

...when I was in France in the summer, I was amazed. Amazed at just how many Dacias there were EVERYWHERE...

Same in Holland, Germany, etc.

 

When I drove to Berlin and back in 2010, it seemed like every fourth or fifth car was a dark blue Logan MCV estate! I did idly think about getting a quote for chopping in the Blingo while I was out there, but RHD may have been an issue...

[RENOMAD]

I'll just park this here...

 

 

 

WANT!

 

Look, when I was in France in the summer, I was amazed. Amazed at just how many Dacias there were EVERYWHERE. So I went to several dealers to have a look - and I was amazed again. IF - and it is IF - the build quality of the Dacias that land here is anywhere near as good as the ones I saw, then they really will give the bargain basement end of the market something to think about. I was concerned that they were probably stealing sales, but the message was that they have just added another dimension to the range. The Modus was singled out as the car most likely to be part exchanged for a Dacia, the rest were new customers.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but after spending most of the ealy part of the new millenium building completely unreliable crap, the current range just doesn't go wrong. Sadly some dealers have built themselves on counting on a supply of warranty work - one of my local dealers was quite open in saying that if all of the fat-arsed Meganes had been as good as the 2007 onwards models, they'd have struggled.

 

 

 

I agree - the new Megane is boring - the hatch looks like an Astra and I don't really know what they look like. The estate is nowhere near as nice as the previous model.

 

However, I've just taken delivery of my second coupe, this time a diesel, which is ace and is currently doing just over 65mpg - residual value at trade was also excellent. Sorry, but I still have no reason not to buy Renault.

 

 

Richard,,,,,,thas is why you are still one of my favourite people in the whole world------even if I didnt live up to my end of the deal sorry

 

 

I have to agree. I was in France last year and went into a dealership aswell to look at the Duster...they say that dont expect too much and you will always be surprised.Well that works for me. I will be placing an order for one.

[Craig the Princess]

...when I was in France in the summer, I was amazed. Amazed at just how many Dacias there were EVERYWHERE...

Same in Holland, Germany, etc.

 

When I drove to Berlin and back in 2010, it seemed like every fourth or fifth car was a dark blue Logan MCV estate! I did idly think about getting a quote for chopping in the Blingo while I was out there, but RHD may have been an issue...

 

In Romania it was about 50% new Dacias (98% of those Logan saloons), 20% old chod and 30% old Dacias. The Logan cabs had done a range of mileages (from 150,000 kms to 300,000kms from peering over the driver's shoulder), were driven by total and utter maniacs in a place weirder than Wonderland and rode well at that age.

 

I'd love a Logan saloon, when the price is lower I may well do a road-trip there and get one.

[RENOMAD]

We'll see if you say that when the turbo swallows it's seals, the engine runs away on the black stuff and it ends by the sound of something large and metallic shitting itself from under the bonnet...

 

It may seem I'm being unfair, but Renault are supposed to be one of the big car firms, hell if the bottom end of the market can knock out better cars, cheaper, what chance have they got?

 

 

I have a friend with his own recovery company.....I asked him recently what brand was his biggest payer and the results surprised me.

BMW,,,,,,Yes the brand that can do no wrong..Diesels that had lunched themselvess,engine managment lights coming on ,,cars just stopping.

 

next,,,,,VW ,and more specifically the PASSAT diesels with fuel pump problems

 

 

As regards Renault,,,he said that most of their problems was stupid stuff like keys, immobilisers, windows etc ,,,but VERY FEW major catastrophic failures.

 

I'm not letting go on this-----they are no better, but no worse than many other brands out there its just that people just jump on the RUBBISH RENAULT TRAIN.

[Renault18]

We'll see if you say that when the turbo swallows it's seals, the engine runs away on the black stuff and it ends by the sound of something large and metallic shitting itself from under the bonnet...

 

Because of course, it only ever happens to Renaults . . .

 

Current Dci models known to me. 2005 Scenic 104k - fine. 2002 Scenic - 110k - fine. 2006 Scenic - 92k - fine 2005 Megane 97k - fine. 2001 Megane 186k - still fine.

 

Yes - they do go bang. No - they shouldn't.

 

Sadly - other "big" manufacturers don't exactly always get it right either - when the Turbo fails and it runs away, I'll put it in 6th and stall it - I've seen it done. (and it wasn't on a cheap French piece of shit)

[fiatdaft]

That tends to rip the centre of the clutch out on renaults for some reason,no car is perfect,they all have problems but renaults do seem to have more than there fair share,there reliabilty record and depreciation is bad!

 

When ever we sell a renault its everything crossed when it's in the workshop and we always allow a couple of extra days just incase.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Uncle arnie will discount them,if he sells them of course!

 

And eight years later, rusted to fuck, they'll be on a transporter to Mannheim Auctions in England!

[fiatdaft]

Feckin right,you lot pay more for cars than we do up here!

[ruffgeezer]

We'll see if you say that when the turbo swallows it's seals, the engine runs away on the black stuff and it ends by the sound of something large and metallic shitting itself from under the bonnet...

 

Because of course, it only ever happens to Renaults . . .

 

I never said it only happens to Renaults, but it doesn't seem uncommon on the bigger dci lump.

[dollywobbler]

...which arrived about 3 months earlier, and only in the USA. But just for you -

 

The Espace was the first in Europe to successfully market and shape the Multi Purpose Vehicle into what it is today.

 

Wish I had never mentioned it!

bollox!

 

The Fiat Multipla beat it by two decades!

 

I don't agree (this is an internet forum after all). The Fiat Multipla can in no way be regarded as a proper MPV. Yes, it was very practical, but it was far too small and frankly hopeless to catch on really - which is presumably why, unlike the Espace, no-one showed any interest in developing their own versions. The Fiat was a blind alley, albeit a very interesting one that might have worked if it was just a bit bigger. The Espace began the people carrier craze. (ignoring the Citroen DS Safari, CX Familiale, Peugeot 505, Saab 95 etc which also offered lots of seats/space but still looked like cars).

 

Renault became the masters at discovering new market sectors. The Espace was everything the Matra Rancho wasn't. The Megane Scenic successfully predicted the OMG IZ NOT ACTUALLY 7 SEETA MPV class. The Megane II demonstrated that people would buy a car for a funky arse rather than actual boot space. I think they got a bit cocky with the Avantime and Vel Satis though, and it's all gone very wrong since.

[R9UKE]

We'll see if you say that when the turbo swallows it's seals, the engine runs away on the black stuff and it ends by the sound of something large and metallic shitting itself from under the bonnet...

 

Sadly - other "big" manufacturers don't exactly always get it right either - when the Turbo fails and it runs away, I'll put it in 6th and stall it - I've seen it done. (and it wasn't on a cheap French piece of shit)

 

Or you could just do what my aunt did and get out and run like hell leaving your Laguna dCi blowing itself to bits!

 

I gotta say that even I would say no to a Vel Satis if it had the 2.2 dCi under the bonnet. One of THE worst engines ever made, an appalling design.

 

As you said though, other manufacturers suffer bigger problems, but BMW and Mercedes customers generally have more money than Renault owners, so naturally they don't complain as much when they have to shell out.

[fiatdaft]

But the Chrysler minivan did come first. The prairie was also available with 7 seats before 1984.

[mk2_craig]

I don't think a 7 seater Prairie was marketed in the UK until the mk2 version in the late 1980s.

 

However the Civic Shuttle surely pre-dates the Migraine Scenic by getting on for 15 years

[messerschmitt owner]

...which arrived about 3 months earlier, and only in the USA. But just for you -

 

The Espace was the first in Europe to successfully market and shape the Multi Purpose Vehicle into what it is today.

 

Wish I had never mentioned it!

bollox!

 

The Fiat Multipla beat it by two decades!

 

I don't agree (this is an internet forum after all). The Fiat Multipla can in no way be regarded as a proper MPV. Yes, it was very practical, but it was far too small and frankly hopeless to catch on really - which is presumably why, unlike the Espace, no-one showed any interest in developing their own versions. The Fiat was a blind alley, albeit a very interesting one that might have worked if it was just a bit bigger. The Espace began the people carrier craze. (ignoring the Citroen DS Safari, CX Familiale, Peugeot 505, Saab 95 etc which also offered lots of seats/space but still looked like cars).

 

Renault became the masters at discovering new market sectors. The Espace was everything the Matra Rancho wasn't. The Megane Scenic successfully predicted the OMG IZ NOT ACTUALLY 7 SEETA MPV class. The Megane II demonstrated that people would buy a car for a funky arse rather than actual boot space. I think they got a bit cocky with the Avantime and Vel Satis though, and it's all gone very wrong since.

bollox yet again

 

The 600 Multipla may not have been so popular in the UK but in Italy it was the taxi of choice for many in the 60s - it was a genuine MPV, just ahead of its time (130,000 made though in a ten year run) and the Renault Espace was not even a Renault! It was a Talbot!

[dollywobbler]

Popularity in one country does not make a car great. So the Italians loved it - they also loved the Fiat 500, which proves what a bunch of masochists they are!

 

It's tricky to see the line between a big, practical estate and a big, practical van with windows, but the Espace, regardless of parentage, was the car in Europe that popularised the breed. The Fiat Multipla just didn't.

 

If you want a popular car with lots of practicality (flexible seating for instance), how about 1948's 2CV? A true MPV of sorts.

[R9UKE]

But the Chrysler minivan did come first. The prairie was also available with 7 seats before 1984.

 

The fact that these other shite barges you mention didn't manage to make a mark says it all. Now please, do go to bed.

 

The Espace will always be the generally perceived pioneer. End of.

[fiatdaft]

The chrysler minivan not making a mark,you are joking right? And since we are being pedantic it wasn't launched in the uk until july 85,its launch month(july) in france they sold nine and by the end of the year they had sold 2427.

[RoadworkUK]

Wkipedia States thus on the topic:

 

".... The question as to whether the Chrysler Voyager or Renault (Matra) Espace can accurately lay claim to being the true pioneer of the soon-to-be-coined MPV breed, is a tedious and oft-asked one, the popular answer to which is that, frankly, who gives a Hamsters Phallus?"

[fiatdaft]

Exactly ! Back on topic noo?

[Mr Lobster]

Really - Espace / Chrysler / Fiat 600. Does anyone actually give even a tiny fuck?

[R9UKE]

But the Chrysler minivan did come first

Exactly ! Back on topic noo?

 

Yeh, you might wanna check your previous posts before complaining about this debate - you started it!

 

I agree on nobody giving a fuck. I regret ever suggesting that the Espace was a legendary point on history at all - I retract everything!

[ashmicro]

The mark 1 Espace looks like Neil Kinnock.

[Cavcraft]

The mark 1 Espace looks like Neil Kinnock.

 

Nobody liked him either!

[R9UKE]

The mark 1 Espace looks like Neil Kinnock.

 

Didn't Shipman have a Mark 1 Espace?

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

I rather like how the Dacia Logan Van is just the estate without the rear side windows, retaining the back doors. It looks a bit odd, but it's got to be immensely more versatile than normal small vans. Looks like they can be unlocked individually too.

[Craig the Princess]

The mark 1 Espace looks like Neil Kinnock.

 

Didn't Shipman have a Mark 1 Espace?

 

Or was it just driving past?

 

[Autoplas]

I'm no fan of French cars, but to write all Renault models off as rubbish as certain individuals have on this thread is with respect just ignorant

 

Spent several weeks earlier this year looking at a ton of cars from lots of different manufacturers to meet a specific needs list my Mum has. I really did not want to recommend anything French, but after several l o n g test drives, crawling about inside cars with tape measures, dealing with all kinds of odious salesman (and a few nice ones),checking spec lists and considering ease of access, visibility, seat comfort, load space etc etc the car that ticked more boxes than any other was a Renault (not one of the cars being cut).

 

The car is now six months old, no complaints whatsover with the build quality, finish & fit, equipment or anything else and it is a pleasant drive. Ok it isn't as nice to drive as my E-Class but it is a better than the previous car (a Nissan which was a decent car also).

 

If anything I think Renault is headed for a rise and they are cutting away the dross, and lets face it all manufacturers go through this process don't they ?