Heroes and Villains

[CreepingJesus]

Nah, Clarkson's a cretin. He might have driven everything, everywhere, ever; but for the sake of 'entertainment' , he sells out his obvious intelligence to make lightweight nonsense, for people to clap along with/be outraged by, like tinplate clockwork monkeys. Why the BBC haven't realised that TG's been treading water for years? Mind you, Andy Wilman's not blameless either...

For example: I can pinpoint the precise moment Clarkson lost my respect. That bit on the end of the Prodrive P2 test, when he wibbles on about not knowing or caring how its' diff system works. I'm not asking for a major technical symposium here, but a little appreciation of the engineering talent, that went into making the P2 do what he did with it, would be appropriate. But no, he plays to the fools who will watch 20 mins of rolling burnouts, in a 55 min show...

Why hasn't science created a way of utilising that cretin's life force, to keep Boddy and Setright going a little longer? 'Twould be well worthwhile.

[Pete-M]

The 20 minute rolling burnouts are fun.

 

Yes, I agree it would be nice occasionally for a bit more technical info but to be honest we're in the minority there. Which is why they don't do it.

[Rover414]

The BBC do not care, TopGear brings in 5million-ish per episode which makes it BBC 2's most popular show. It being too technical would just turn viewers off, I love cars but I don't watch TopGear expecting to be educated on cars. I always thought TopGears best episodes were the massive challenges (starting with the USA one) and I thought the Vietnam one was an amazing episode with amazing cinematics. Another episode that stuck in my mind is the 24hour event they did in that BMW 3-series, it appeals to a wide audience and massive international sales probably make BBC very happy.

[overheadvalve]

Villain:

You all know why, he's shit.

Some of us seem to forget the amount of money all those strikes cost. Fuck the unions, they should have done the right thing for their workers and not held the company to ransom, that said the management were too weak.

Hero:

He was a genuine bloke and he made a real effort,

De Lorean is a hero to me too, and David Bache, Spen King, Sir William Lyons etc.

Colin Chapman.

Barry Sheene

 

Proper hero this guy, finishes a race has a shot of some kind of booze and a fag.

No, he didn't do anything for motoring......

 

 

[warren t claim]

Unions are a good thing in general, but theres no doubt that Red Robbo was a massive twat. Eventually Michael Edwardes went over his head twice and balloted the BL workforce directly about whether they really wanted to strike or not. Robbo was of course pro-strike and lead an energetic campaign to get the workers to 'show the management they won't be cowed'. But as it turned out most workers just wanted to come to fuggin work, do their job to a decent standard and go home again. DR lost of these direct ballots and that was the end of him pretty much. Its impossible not to wonder how much of the 'strike damage' done to BL was directly 100% his fault.

 

I've got a friend who used to work at the Triumph factory in Speke and some of the stories he told me would be worth a thread in themselves if it wasn't for the fact that even 30 years later you may find his story unpalatable and I'd be uncomfortable repeating it on a public forum. Let's just say that Red Robbo was the happy friendly face of the BL unions.

[garethj]

I've got a friend who used to work at the Triumph factory in Speke and some of the stories he told me would be worth a thread in themselves if it wasn't for the fact that even 30 years later you may find his story unpalatable and I'd be uncomfortable repeating it on a public forum. Let's just say that Red Robbo was the happy friendly face of the BL unions.

I'd quite like to hear this, hactually

[Cavcraft]

Surely Top Gear is a sketch show not a car programme? What with all those pre-planned and heavily over-acted 'comedy' moments it can't be anything else. They can smash up all the Marinas they like but rigging most of the show and taking the piss on the licence payers money ain't really cricket.

[Rocket88]

Colin Chapman.......villain.

Anybody who would put the safety of his drivers at risk for the sake of a 1/10 of a second a lap deserves no respect, however brilliant an engineer he was. Some of the F1 cars he designed were potential death traps.

Issigonis............villain

Someone else more concerned with his engineeribg ego than the comfort of the people who had to drive his creations.

[scooters]

I'm going to defend Clarkson..

 

CAR / Motor / Autocar etc were all handling biased in the 1970s when it came to anything quicker than a Renault 4 or with any bias towards performance. If there was a group test it would pretty much always be the best handling car that won unless that car rode terribly..

 

Clarkson has more experience of cars than pretty much any of us. He's driven everything from Tuk Tuks to T-34 Tanks. Curved Dash Olds to Koenigseggs, Vivas to Veyrons. Yes, he winds up the anorak brigade but that's no bad thing, most of them are pompous arseholes anyway.

 

If you get offended by him smashing up a shite old Marina and are idiotic enough to start some kind of "Save the Marina" quest on t'internet then of course he's going to keep smashing them up. Watching the old BL crowd getting uptight is fucking comical. Top Gear bought the cars, so you cannot tell them what to do with them. Dropping a piano on a Marina is a far lesser crime than buying, for example, a Lancia Fulvia 'to restore' and then leaving it in a field for 15 years because you 'intend to restore it'. If TG wanted to buy my 604 to drop it off a cliff I'd sell it to them provided they were willing to pay the asking price. Same for the Jag, the Mk2, or the Jeep.

 

Top Gear in its current form is amusing, informative, entertaining and most of all fun. It got Joe and Jane Public interested in cars again. The same Joe Public that if it wasn't for Top Gear would be listening to the lentil munchers and other Green lunatics and campaigning to get cars off the streets, electricity banned and all the other dark age Luddite shite they want. It seems to me that a lot of Top Gear haters do so because it brings cars to the masses, making their little hobby less exclusive, and because Clarkson, May and Hammond are more often than not bang on in their assessments of whatever they drive.

 

Nothing worse than some anorak spouting shite about how Clarkson is an idiot because Clarkson stated (accurately) that the Spagthorpe Bologna* is an ill handling, badly riding, badly built, torque free, gutless, uneconomical piece of shit with a reasonable interior. Anoraks only go nuts if they've actually got a Bologna and think it's lovely. The fact that the anoraks in question have often only ever experienced the likes of a 1973 Marina 1.3 with a bent chassis and a misfire and a Stanza with knackered shocks to use as referemce means they'll defend the Bologna to the end and will loudly complain whenever Clarkson tells the truth.

 

He's not always right, obviously, nobody is, but from my experience he tends to be pretty spot on most of the time. Often I've driven the cars, come to my conclusions then later read something he has written about the car in question and his views have been very similar to mine. Same with May, he likes some weird stuff, but his descriptions of cars tend to be accurate.

 

I don't want the world to ever go back to the likes of Chris Goffey, William Woolard and that gurning bint Mallory rabbiting on about glovebox cubic capacity and why you should buy the 1.3 diesel instead of the 2.0 Turbo because you'll save £10 a week running the fucking thing. People who want "Cars to get from A to B, that's what they're for, nothing else" should read "Which" or "What Car" and make their choices with a bloody slide rule and a load of impossible to match EU fuel figures. They shouldn't be sitting in front of TV watching a programme about cars, they should be watching wall paper fade or something that will interest them instead.

 

 

Oh, and although Bertone designed the Favorit, the Commie Czech government at the time made massive alterations to the design to stop it from being an object of desire. Which is why it looks shit.

 

Aye some fair points there..

 

Without this turning into another top gear debate...the 'new' format is at least entertaining hut getting imho a bit stale. The smartest thing the producers did was to bring in board James May who is a foil for clarkson. This doesn't stop pub bores quoting him verbatum as if his is the last word.

 

Yes....he has a lot of experience driving cars but he's not alone in that...

 

We are remarkably free if anoracks here but arguably our collective experience of real world motoring..especially chod is one if the most comprehensive around at the moment.

 

Look at your own experience for example...yes you might not have driven a Veyro..but if I need to know how a Rangie is gonna cope towing a P6 across Europe I know who I'd ask!

.

[dollywobbler]

I'm just annoyed that I've seen Clarkson state that Top Gear would be binned if it became stale. IMHO, it did that about two years ago. Funnily enough, it's still here. I admire Clarkson's writing style and enjoy some of his non-car documentaries very much, but can't really forgive him for completely selling out for the quick buck - though I'm sure it's not easy to turn down millions of pounds...

 

Glad someone's mentioned at least one of the Phoenix Four. While I applaud their initial work with MG Rover - the MG Zs were a master-stroke and they still look shit hot - they did focus rather too much on lining their own pockets. To earn respect, you've got to utterly break yourself and your company while trying to do the right thing. Step forward another hero, André Citroën.

[Station]

Anything outside of Top Gear, and he seems OK!

 

Partially semi-villains:

 

How about Quentin Wilson and Mike Brewer, not because of the obvious, but for giving stupid advice to car buyers on what to look out for when buying a car, hence leading to people trying to knock off half the price because 'There's car polish residue on the bonnet shutlines', much to the annoyance of the seller trying to get money on selling an otherwise decent car. QW has never really pointed out from what I've seen that anything can break on any car at any time, even new ones.

 

Also the creator of the Fast And The Furious film for inspiring millions of kids to become 'experts' on cars in a couple of hours. I've met a few people who were converted after seeing this film!

[Shep Shepherd]

Hero:

 

Jan Wilsgaard, the designer of the Volvo Amazon and the 100, 200, 700, 900 and 850 Series cars:

 

[Amazo]

Hero- Tiff Needell:

 

 

From various sources;

 

He raced in Formula Ford, at one point he won the Kent Messenger FF Championship after competing for only half of the remaining season. This success landed him a partly paid drive in the Formula Ford 2000 Championship. Needell was completely dominant in that car and series which provided him with the springboard into Formula 3. He was a front runner in F3 and then in the Aurora British Formula One championship. In 1979 he was unable to graduate to the F1 World Championship proper due to the lack of the correct licence, but he was back in 1980, driving two Grands Prix for Ensign, qualifying for the Belgian Grand Prix at Zolder. However, he had an engine problem and did not finish the race. He subsequently failed to qualify for the Monaco Grand Prix.

In 1988 and 1989 he competed in the British Rallycross Grand Prix in a Metro 6R4 prepared by Will Gollop's motorsport team. He achieved a good result in 1988 finishing 4th in the B-Final in what was his first rallycross event, however, the 1989 event was cancelled due to heavy fog after the practice sessions.

Needell made his first appearance at Le Mans in 1981 driving a Ibec-Hesketh 308LM alongside Tony Trimmer. They failed to finish and again in 1982 this time paired with Bob Evans and Geoff Lees in an Aston Martin Nimrod NRA/C2. However the following year Needell finished 17th driving a Porsche 956. In 1985 Needell briefly led the 24 hours driving the Aston Martin EMKA C84/1 and would eventually finish 11th. His best result at Le Mans was 3rd in 1990. He then had a couple of years in the British Touring Car Championship with Nissan, before returning to sports cars in 1995, driving a Porsche at Daytona and a Jaguar XJ220 at Le Mans. He then drove the Lister Storm for 3 years, reaching 3rd overall at Daytona in 1997 before gearbox problems dropped them to 19th. In 1998 he finished 2nd in the GT1 championship and won the Silverstone Golden Jubilee Trophy race. So the guy can drive a bit.

 

 

But then, he becomes a commentator on Formula 3000, Formula Two, Touring Cars, Rallycross and the Formula Ford Festival for the Beeb - which Tiff went on to cover on his own due to date clashing with Murray’s commitments at the Australian Grand Prix. By the late eighties when such events went ‘post production’ Tiff would often stand-in for Murray when he was unable to attend the ‘as live’ commentary sessions at the BHP Studios and became the number two commentator for all motorsport on Grandstand.

In 1991 he was engaged as the Grand Prix commentator for BSkyB but, after the first three races of the year, the company lost its rights so the that ended, so he commentates on NASCAR and Indycar for them. Talented chap.

Then of course he does Top Gear and then Fifth Gear and the rest his history.

[scooters]

Yes...mini Villan is definately Mike Brewer who, despite talking a bit of sense can't help himself being a barra boy...

 

his sidekick, Mr China is a hero as he is excellent at straightforwardly explaining that you need to do to fix various bits on old cars...very helpful and good tips

[Amazo]

Mr China is a hero as he is excellent at straightforwardly explaining that you need to do to fix various bits on old cars...very helpful and good tips

 

And a builder of nutcase motors that would make Andy Saunders blush :

 

[scooters]

very clever...I wonder what the MOT requirements are for a bed....are the coasters in good condition..is the divan drawer mounted properly....are the mattress springs ok? Are the sheets clean?

 

if a hot water bottle is used...is it so hot you'll burn you toes or does it have a faux fur case?

[dollywobbler]

Aye. Edd China is quite a bloke. I've seen the sofa very close up and it's an exquisite work of art, from the lager can gear selector to the Mini speedometer mounted in a mantelpiece clock.

[Des]

 

We are remarkably free if anoracks here but arguably our collective experience of real world motoring..especially chod is one if the most comprehensive around at the moment.

 

Look at your own experience for example...yes you might not have driven a Veyro..but if I need to know how a Rangie is gonna cope towing a P6 across Europe I know who I'd ask!

.

 

Although of late ask any question and you'll be told to get busy with the old hammer / smaller socket combo.

[Timewaster]

Hero:

Jan Wilsgaard, the designer of the Volvo Amazon and the 100, 200, 700, 900 and 850 Series cars:

 

They were designed?

 

Another TV villan

Mats and Flaps, Mats and Flaps - tell him 4k and we'll have a deal - Mats and Flaps!

 

Aswell as Right car/Wrong car (Mats and bloody flaps) he did a show on Discovery with VBH repairing smashed up cars with second hand parts and saving 8 pence on the cost of a straight one.

 

Utter twat.

[warren t claim]

[M'coli]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Dr Moulton as a hero as yet, for his innovative suspension medium. When it's working as it should do, it's very good indeed.

[scooters]

 

Dreamytime Escorts!...quality company that....motto - "never ever ever bloody anything ever"

 

Mats ad Flaps....yes villain BUT he did go after the DVLA on watchdog and is still coordinating the charge vs them

[RoadworkUK]

No images; wouldn't know where to find them. But I'm going to nominate the following as, if not HEROES, then at least RIGHT PROPER GEEZERS.

 

Zak Assemakis, Peter Grunert, Nik Berg, Andrew Frankel, Nat Barnes, LJK Setright, Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

The motoring journalists of the '80s and 90's who filled my head with cars and incubated my wonderful sickness.

[Albert Ross]

Heroes.

 

This chap. Hans Ledwinka

Responsible for these......

 

Uwe Bahnsen. Gave us the Taunus 17M, + 2 other Taunii, Capri 1,2,3, Mk3 Escort, Sierra, and Scorpio Mk1 !!!! (There were others with him, but HE'S THE MAN!)

 

Villain. This cunt. For crimes against life.

[Pete-M]

No images; wouldn't know where to find them. LJK Setright, Etc. Etc. Etc..

 

 

LJKS. Top dude. Bloody weirdo by all accounts, but an excellent writer.

 

I never understood his fixations with Hondas and kangeroo skin driving gloves though.

[scaryoldcortina]

Villan...

 

Tim Dutton-Wolley, car "designer". Not content with producing ugly, shoddy looking kits with very dodgy front suspension setups he branched out into ugly, shoddy looking amphibious vehicles that don't float properly. Each time a venture failes (or is sued) he winds up the company, claims all the assets as "personal tools" and starts again. I personally blame Mr Dutton for the existance of the BIVA test.

[RoadworkUK]

 

That'll do nicely.

 

You a Jalopnik regular?

[Shep Shepherd]

Another one from me

 

Klaus Luthe, designer of the NSU Ro80, who went on to design several other important German cars, including the BMW E30 3-Series:

 

[Pete-M]

You a Jalopnik regular?

 

Not a regular as such, but I do browse there from time to time. Good site.

[Shep Shepherd]

You a Jalopnik regular?

 

Not a regular as such, but I do browse there from time to time. Good site.

 

Same here. It was better when Murilee Martin was a contributor, though.