A bit of a strange working day! (Moderns)

[warren t claim]

If I had a Maserati in my garage/kitchen I wouldn't be looking at reg numbers all night!

[TimothyClaypole]

MK6 - 1318kg

 

MK1 - 840kg

 

So best part of half a ton heavier?

[tonedepear]

Does anyone here have any experience of the new breed of VAG petrol engines? Don't they have something tiny like a turbocharged 1.4 in a Passat or Superb? Are they the saviour of the petrol engined family car?

 

My dad bought a Golf 1.4 TSI 122, that's the one with a turbo but no supercharger. I was skeptical, but I've driven it in town and on the motorway and it never feels underpowered. Despite the Golf's bloat it moves well enough and it's quiet too. Hasn't bettered 45mpg though. That's decent enough but hardly earth shattering.

 

They've reduced the capacity to 1.2 on the latest ones. That must be pushing it a bit?

 

How much heavier is the latest Golf compared to the 1976 version with the 1.1 engine?

 

1974 1.1 - 750kg

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=42262

 

2009 1.2tsi - 1158kg

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=207097

 

Edit: Beat me to it!

[TimothyClaypole]

Nobody seems decided on the exact weight of them that's for sure.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Does anyone here have any experience of the new breed of VAG petrol engines? Don't they have something tiny like a turbocharged 1.4 in a Passat or Superb? Are they the saviour of the petrol engined family car?

 

I drove a 3-cylinder (1.2?) Polo and it was utter wank. Harsh, completely devoid of torque, and very thirsty to boot- as you had to keep ragging it in order to drive with a modicum of safety. Makes my mum's 1.3 Sirion seem like a V8 limo.

[Andrew353w]

I drove (by chance it must be said) a new nissan, that was, smooth, had really good accelaeration, tidy handling and packaging. It was electric. No apolgies it worked as a "real" car. I was embarrassed having rubbished electric cars, but mark my words the diesels finished. O.K. so a Leaf is an arm and a leg, but probally 5 grand over a diesel. And because of the tax fiddle benefit in kind (that provides the UK with a fresh supply of used cars) there will be loads on the road.

 

I hate to admit it, but I agree! I was given the chance to have a long (15-20 mile) test drive in a Citroen C-zero electric car (Peugeot make the Ion, which is exactly the same car with a different badge) It was well built, had all the whistles and toys (leccy windows, air con, cd player et al) AND drove well. I really pushed it up a hill near Brighton (stop laughing at the back!) and it blatted up to 50 & then made it to 70 without much struggle. The range is officially 93 miles (although the sales girl said 100 was possible if you drove gently) and a charge up takes 8 hours from dead... BUT (and this is where I'm starting to "get it" where electric cars are concerned) a charge costs AT THE MOST £2 and probably much less, so my journey to work and back of 70-75 miles suddenly becomes economic by electric car! No filters (air, oil, fuel) no oil changes, no road tax, insurance that's pocket money and free parking in quite a few places.

 

So, what's the problem? Peugeot WONT let you buy the bloody thing! You have to lease it. So, after 5 years I have nothing and I've given them 5 years of £400 per month (+VAT) Until then I was going to buy one! Citroen's system might be different, but somehow I doubt it...

[Polystratus]

So, what's the problem? Peugeot WONT let you buy the bloody thing! You have to lease it. So, after 5 years I have nothing and I've given them 5 years of £400 per month (+VAT) Until then I was going to buy one! Citroen's system might be different, but somehow I doubt it...

 

Renault will be the same, in fact you won't own the batteries, you have to pay a monthly rental charge plus the lease price. Don't know about the VAG electric version of it's new city car. If you can buy that version, well the Skoda model since it should be less and include the batteries (and not some silly eco inflated price too), then would consider one as the commuting car.

 

 

I drove a 3-cylinder (1.2?) Polo and it was utter wank. Harsh, completely devoid of torque, and very thirsty to boot- as you had to keep ragging it in order to drive with a modicum of safety. Makes my mum's 1.3 Sirion seem like a V8 limo.

 

A 10 plate Polo tried to overtake me today and it completely struggled to do it (I wasnt 'ragging it all), mines the older 1.2 version in the Fabia, its a lovely engine nice and smooth and very economical,(someone on another forum said extactly the same what you said about mine - he was over 18 stone so no wonder the engine struggled ), so guess its weight of the car etc., to meet the Encap rating, and they fiddle around with the gear ratios/engine mangement to get the OMG global warming CO2 emissions down.

 

Have heared the TSI engines in Skodas get good reviews, there's some mixed feelings about the new vRS one which is a supercharged 1.4 (Especially from the VAG Diesel fanboys).

[r.welfare]

Makes quite a nice noise, though. But I didn't care for the lack of go above walking pace, nor the vibration through the pedals and gearlever. The one I had was the basic 60bhp version, 18 seconds to 60 or something ridiculous like that.

[M'coli]

The electric cars thing is a bit awkward, environmentally. Charge them up overnight when the electricity's cheaper, but the baseload for that electricity is generated in the main by BIG thermal stations - usually the nuclear and coal fired, which struggle achieve more than 35% efficiency. Coal on top of this is the highest CO2 emitter of all, so overall a petrol-hybrid or diesel will still be more efficient at the energy it uses for the CO2 it produces.

 

The saving grace of the electric car will be the huge numbers of windturbines that are being and are going to be built. The cars will mop up the electicity that they over-produce during windy nights, which will prevent compensation payments being paid to windfarms as mentioned in this article.

[barefoot]

Isn't one of the problems with electric cars the heaters? Apparently they have a range of 100 miles...

but in the winter, when you've got the heater (which obviously has to be an electric heater as there's no cooling issues so no free surplus heat coming from anywhere), blower, wipers & lights on - they can only manage about half of that?

[RobT]

Does anyone here have any experience of the new breed of VAG petrol engines? Don't they have something tiny like a turbocharged 1.4 in a Passat or Superb? Are they the saviour of the petrol engined family car?

 

I've driven a rental 1.4 petrol Polo recently and was rather taken with it. Over 1,200 miles in 7 days I averaged 48mpg which I was happy with, and I liked the fact you had to rev it as it made me drive less like an old duffer If it were my money I'd buy this over the equivalent diesel as I've tried both and preferred the peppyness of the petrol.

[254575]

with regards to the modern vauxhall engines, they are dirty and poor compared to most others. have a look how much it costs to tax a 1.8 astra - £245 a year! compared to 1.8 k series - £190

 

 

wont somebody think of the carbons!

[fiatdaft]

they don't do a 1.8 in a modern astra,the equivilant is £90 per year to tax.

[254575]

you could buy an astra H up to december 2009, surely thats modern by autoshite standards?

[fiatdaft]

maybe,but the engine wasn't!

[Rocket88]

I think you're right, NA petrol engines are rubbish really in comparison to a modern diesel. A modern NA petrol, running at a steady speed, is little or no more efficient than an A-series or even somethign older. It will last longer, and stay in tune longer, and run better from cold, and be a bit quieter and what have you, but that stuff is all peripheral and is really down to computer controls on the fuel and ignition systems. The actual base product, the suck squeeze bang blow bit, is exactly the fuggin same. However, diesels have advanced amazingly, thanks to more and more capable turbochargers and mega high injection pressures, which have changed enormously the actual explosion happening in the cylinder and thus the useful output of the engine. Diesels are just a much better solution full stop.

 

I drove (by chance it must be said) a new nissan, that was, smooth, had really good accelaeration, tidy handling and packaging. It was electric. No apolgies it worked as a "real" car. I was embarrassed having rubbished electric cars, but mark my words the diesels finished. O.K. so a Leaf is an arm and a leg, but probally 5 grand over a diesel. And because of the tax fiddle benefit in kind (that provides the UK with a fresh supply of used cars) there will be loads on the road.

 

Is the 100 mile range a killer for most people 95% of the time?

 

Milk floats are fine if you do less than 80 miles a day, and can guarantee that you have a spare 12 hours "down time" for re-charging. If you get a phone call at 1 in the morning to inform you that your sainted aunt is about to peg it in Newcastle, and you live in Plymouth, you're royally fucked.

[Craig the Princess]

 

Milk floats are fine if you do less than 80 miles a day, and can guarantee that you have a spare 12 hours "down time" for re-charging. If you get a phone call at 1 in the morning to inform you that your sainted aunt is about to peg it in Newcastle, and you live in Plymouth, you're royally fucked.

 

If you don't have a second (or ninteenth) car of course. If there was a £1000 shite electric car that could do 65 miles to a charge and 60mph I'd commute in it and save the dino juice for 2.2 litre auto princesses at the weekends.

[M'coli]

Milk floats are fine if you do less than 80 miles a day, and can guarantee that you have a spare 12 hours "down time" for re-charging. If you get a phone call at 1 in the morning to inform you that your sainted aunt is about to peg it in Newcastle, and you live in Plymouth, you're royally fucked.

Fuck it, Milk float to Plymouth airport, fly to Newcastle, rent a car from there.

[alf892]

i went on a work thing yesterday to play with new vauxhalls.

 

we had a (short) drive in the ampera. quite nice actually but range is 50 miles.........after this a 1.4 petrol kicks in and drives a genny that apparently charges the battery to drive the lecky motor. in this mode fuel consumption is said to be the same as a 1.4 petrol car.

 

costs 33k. batteries are guaranteed 8 years.......new batteries 7k. i wouldn't like to try and sell a 6/7 year old one.

[mattblack]

after this a 1.4 petrol kicks in

 

fuel consumption is said to be the same as a 1.4 petrol car.

 

GR8!

[alf892]

exactly..........i did ask what the point was..........but the brand manager just gave me a dirty look.

 

also asked range if heater,lights and wipers were on.......short silence and then said still 50 miles

[dollywobbler]

Well, there's not much point if you live in rural Wales - but these things are designed for cities. No more sitting in traffic jams with your 1.4-litre engine needlessly running.

 

This is why I find it odd to see so many Piouses driving up motorways at high speeds. No saving in fuel compared to anything else and a lot more expensive to buy. LOSE.

[254575]

maybe,but the engine wasn't!

 

are you just making stuff up?

 

2009 - 1.8 £210p/a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-Vauxhall ... 0470277845

 

2011 - 1.8 £165p/a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-VAUXHALL ... 0820333780

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

costs 33k. batteries are guaranteed 8 years.......new batteries 7k

 

That 'lifetime warranty' of theirs only lasted for a year, then!

[warren t claim]

Well, there's not much point if you live in rural Wales - but these things are designed for cities. No more sitting in traffic jams with your 1.4-litre engine needlessly running.

 

This is why I find it odd to see so many Piouses driving up motorways at high speeds. No saving in fuel compared to anything else and a lot more expensive to buy. LOSE.

 

Company car tax explains the rise in numbers seen on the motorways. Plus the hundreds bought by the motorway maintenance industry.

[fiatdaft]

maybe,but the engine wasn't!

 

are you just making stuff up?

 

2009 - 1.8 £210p/a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-Vauxhall ... 0470277845

 

2011 - 1.8 £165p/a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-VAUXHALL ... 0820333780

 

no ,not making stuff up,i was talking about the current astra that came out 2 years ago,not the old model.

 

no 1.8 in the current model astra,the 140 bhp 1.8 was replaced with a 140 bhp 1.4,emissions are 138 .

[CIH]

For those thinking pezz has had it's day, thnk again. I read in Industry Magazines (the type that are sent free to garages and no one reads) reckon the old spark ignition is due a revival, with small trubo'd motors and trick induction systems. Apparantly it's still quite tricky to make a really clean diesel.

[Pete-M]

The chap who did the first high pressure common rail diseasel injection engines for FIAT said about 10 years ago that the diesel engine would fade away rapidly once manufacturers start to put decent common rail systems on turbo petrol engines as a turbo petrol lump is just as capable of big torque and economy figures as a modern turbo diseasel. The petrol is also cleaner, quieter, smoother, easier to get through ever-tightening emissions, doesn't need a DMF, doesn't sound like a bag of shite and is capable of operating over a much wider rev range. They're also capable of big power if that's what you want (provided you don't expect 500 bhp and 50 mpg...)

 

I'm amazed more manufacturers aren't making common rail turbo petrol engines with LPG systems as standard. That way you can forget diesel, have a nicer car and run it on the cheap. As far as I know only Volvo and Subaru currently offer turbo LPG cars from the factory.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I'm amazed more manufacturers aren't making common rail turbo petrol engines with LPG systems as standard. That way you can forget diesel, have a nicer car and run it on the cheap. As far as I know only Volvo and Subaru currently offer turbo LPG cars from the factory.

 

I agree, but I think CNG is an even better idea, as a lot of people would be able to (slowly) fill up at home/office with a little bit of modification to the mains gas setup.

 

You can blame Kyoto and the environazis who can't really understand much about the environment and think a dirty, smelly, carcinogenic piece of shit is 'clean' just because it doesn't emit much CO2.

[fiatdaft]

My daily is a 1.4 punto,its quickish and the tax isn't too bad,only managed an average of 37 mpg on a recent trip to the nurburgring and back though, 102 octane ftw.