Shite times

[Mr_Bo11ox]

LOLz! I'm getting paranoid!To be honest, with the amount of shonky laws passed in recent years, such a development would not be a complete surprise.

[seth]

I was going to say that posting things like that is the way modern internet rumors spread. Quick Bo11ox! Stick it on the Daily Mail forum!

[r.welfare]

Some interesting points made here.I guess the issue is that fuel costs are increasing exponentially relative to everything else, so although there is a knock-on effect on food prices etc, it's not having a direct bearing on inflation.Things are probably no worse now than the double-digit inflation days of the late 70s (so I understand...I was still in nappies at the time ), just that so many folk have stuff "on tick" these days that there is more likelihood of financial meltdown. Be interesting to see what order people give stuff up, mind, as the bailiffs close in - I reckon it's a tie-up between the flash motor and cable TV for 2nd last...Average house prices have definitely increased relative to the average salary, that's for sure. The current middle-aged generation are probably the last to be truly financially comfortable in that their (employer) pensions will be worth more than 5p, their mortgage was paid off long ago and manageable when they had it, and their inheritances from their own parents tends to be high, due to house values (so lend us a tenner, 55bloke ). Certainly it was a right ballache to get on the housing ladder down here in the South East for me 4 years ago, and my own mortgage repayment is (just) into four figures each month. But rather than look at my house as an investment, I consider it a home. You just have to buckle down and make sacrifices elsewhere (or, like 99% of the rest of the public, just run it up on credit cards) - like running an old car.Having said that, in real terms, new (and s/hand save for real banger level) cars are cheaper now than they have ever been. Listening to the wireless as I cruised back from Leeds today in the old boneshaker (that 40p/mile goes further if you stick to HGV speeds on the M1), marvelling all the while that other road users treated me like I had leprosy because I drive a car that's 15 years old, I heard countless adverts for the Focus/Astra/Bravo/Golf/whatever, all with starting prices around the £10k level. Go back to 1991 and the 1.3LX 5dr Mk5 Scrote had a list price of £9688 - and in those days you had none of the kit or safety tech you have now. Plus you'd have borrowed at 10%+ interest in those days! No wonder people sign on the dotted line in 2008.It's only the price of scrap that is pushing up the price level of real automotive crud, the days of picking up a p/ex'd 15yr old Sierra or Cavalier with a full ticket for £50 from BCA have disappeared - hopefully temporarily!

[pogweasel]

4-figure mortgage payment? That is proper painful

[r.welfare]

Yeah, but it's par for the course here in sunny Berks. I've got a biggish 3 bed place, the price didn't start with a 2 but not far off. That said, I put a fair slug down, I earn very good money (worked damn hard to get where I am today, etc) and don't have any other debt. And apart from the odd elderly Pug purchase and the occasional pack of 10 B&H (when my willpower weakens) here and there (and paying a slightly silly amount into two pension plans each month), I don't have any expensive vices. What amazes me is the number of people I know with personal debt in excess of £50k - how they sleep at night is beyond me

[pogweasel]

£50k on top of a mortgage is just astonishing. I'm useless with money really, I don't really waste it but I'm shit at looking after it as well. Just find it all a bit inconvenient. You can tell I'm useless, I didn't get paid for 3 months didn't notice. GIMP. I wish I earned -very good- money, it's alright, get by just fine and similarly I don't have huge personal debt, couple of G on credit cardz but that's diminishing rapidly, likewise pension & vices. I find living alot easier now I have a barclaycard business, keep everything separate. Used to get into a terrible cashflow mess when I had to submit expenses.

[r.welfare]

Yes, it's a scary statistic - in fact, I heard from someone I know "in the trade" that 1 in 6 folk they PASS for credit on a new motor already has personal debt of that figure Doesn't even matter if you can't prove sufficient income - if your credit score is good, you can get whatever you like!A mate of mine borrowed £20k on plastic to pay his house deposit. He is a chartered accountant like me, ergo you would think he would be less dim. Go figure.I am lucky that Mrs W is not "high maintenance" at all, as she has also been brought up to know that credit is EVIL. On the downside, she threatens me with instant divorce if I think about owning more than 3 cars at one time. Sometimes I am very jealous of Wuvvum's lifestyle.

[Torsten2001]

4-figure mortgage payment? That is proper painful

Mine's over that for a 3 bed FLAT, luckily I do okay money wise but I'm sailing very close to the wind plusmortgage is interest only and I have no pension, reckon I'll be working until I die at this rate!

[r.welfare]

Ah, but you do live in London so that's understandable!Sell all the desirable tat you have stashed away and there's your endowment sorted

[Torsten2001]

TBH I am getting rid of some tat to pay off my CC bill before it drags me under! I got stung for a new roof recently which caused me to involuntarily load up my smalls which at the moment would mean I'm looking to load up my CC with roof debt!

[Karmann Ghiaman]

Every year the United Kingdom, Ireland & the rest of Northern Europe suffers a catastrophic, all-embracing natural disaster.

 

It's called Winter.

 

Yet, due to the genius & sheer hard work of our ancestors the shops are full of food, electricity and fuel for heating & transport remain readily available, everyone has food in their bellies & a roof over their heads (our so-called 'homeless' are a negligible minority, which is not to say that we shouldn't care for them); life continues in much the same way as it does during the pleasanter seasons.

 

In 1945, through the incredible bravery of our parents'/grandparents' (one of these probably applies to you) generation, we won a war. In that war the British managed to defeat something unspeakably evil which had somehow reappeared for the first time since the Dark Ages. Today every country in Europe is a parliamentary democracy, ultimately derived from the British model with a few French Revolutionary ideas about Human Rights (no bad thing when you need to call on them yourself) chucked in.

 

We are still fighting wars to preserve our way of life. The good news is that we are fighting them with a small group of specialists who are very, very good at what they do (killing bad men) and they have taken it to the Enemy's home, long before he comes to ours.

 

Good.

 

As far as the cost of today's war is concerned: the whole conquest of Iraq & overthrow of Saddam (not the subsequent occupation, but still by far the most expensive part) cost our Treasury exactly what they spend on the NHS every three days...

 

Oh yes, the NHS, that's another thing. It is ENORMOUS and absolutely, unbelievably brilliant in every possible way. One reason it's so good is that it is constantly being criticised and people are forever mouthing off negative tales against it. That's because we've got a free press, something else which should not be taken for granted.

 

If you want to know why these things have come about & why our society is so very, very, very successful you have to read lots of boring books by people like Hobbs, Adam Smith, Keynes, Galbraith, etc. (and Newton, Darwin & Co. too if you like), BUT, luckily:

 

The people in charge do know what they're doing; they do try to make things better, they are not just trying to line their own pockets. If you imagine otherwise, then basically, you're a Jehovah's Witness (they believe the 's running everything).

 

Life can indeed be tough, it's the human condition. But let's try to make the best of it and be kind & helpful to other people (however ungrateful & awful they often are) while we're about it.

 

Someone else can sit on the cracker-barrel now!

[r.welfare]

I feel your pain, Torsten - I had to have my garage (flat) roof replaced a couple of months back. NOT CHEAP. Unfortunately the insurance company dismissed my claim of storm damage, as they reckon the felt dated back to 1978. Ho hum.Back on topic - my local Texaco is now selling a litre of diesel for 124.9p . I shoulda stocked up on veg oil at Costco earlier...EDIT: The works of John Maynard Keynes are an excellent cure for insomnia, Karmann Ghiaman - I've studied it!

[Milford Cubicle]

Back on topic - my local Texaco is now selling a litre of diesel for 124.9p .

That's the standard price of diesel all over the valley where I live, they notched it up a couple of pence during the Scottish "fuel crisis" and didn't take it back down.

[Richard]

Is the crisis over then? I suppose it must be because they've stopped banging on about it on the radio. There wasn't much of a crisis here though. Most of the people round here went to Tesco to queue for hours to be sold overpriced short measures of watered down fuel, so the real petrol stations were fine.

[retrogeezer]

I guess we're in the very first throws of a move away from being a fossil-fueled society. It's the old supply and demand situation - more people want oil and it's becoming harder to find.

And another thought, if this fuel price increase was just to do with the depleting fossil fuels then why does the government not promote the use of Vegetable oil???If thousands of older diesels can run on it fine, why have newer diesels been engineered to not be able to use it???It's not like it's a new discovery that the oil will run out, there has been plenty of time to find a decent alternative already. And it's no surprise that LPG has gone up along with the price of vegetable oil virtually doubling over the last 18 months..Is that because we are running out of vegetables too??

[seth]

Is that because we are running out of vegetables too??

Umm, I think the answer to that is actually a yes!

[retrogeezer]

err, How?? You can surely grow as much rape/maize etc as you want.I'm no expert so if you can enlighten me that would be great.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'm planting potatoes in my allotment this weekend, the only limiting factor seems to be how much digging I can be arsed to do!HTH etc.

[Mash]

err, How?? You can surely grow as much rape/maize etc as you want.I'm no expert so if you can enlighten me that would be great.

Unfortunately you can make more money growing crops for fuel than for food. Therefore, farmers already scratching a living on supermarket controlled prices are turning more and more to fuel crops, hence the jitters about a world food shortage.

[M'coli]

In 1945, through the incredible bravery of our parents'/grandparents' (one of these probably applies to you) generation, we won a war. In that war the British managed to defeat something

That old chestnut.The British didn't win the war, the Allies did, but the British came out of the war with the mentality of the victor and an economy of a vanquished. The "we won the war" attitude has been holding us back ever since.

[Torsten2001]

and although I appreciate the efforts and struggles of the Allies in keeping us nice and free I'm afraid all my relatives were Irish subsistance farmers and swerved the whole she-bang

[vicsmith]

err, How?? You can surely grow as much rape/maize etc as you want.I'm no expert so if you can enlighten me that would be great.

Unfortunately you can make more money growing crops for fuel than for food. Therefore, farmers already scratching a living on supermarket controlled prices are turning more and more to fuel crops, hence the jitters about a world food shortage.

So it`s Tesco`s fault, then, all of it. And the media. They`re giving all the thickies far more "truth" than they can handle. Instead of front pages on about how this and that is going to place unbearable strain on already unbearably strained familes, they should just make something up about an escaped Tiger or something.

[retrogeezer]

I was just in 'a supermarket' and vegetable oil was £1.08 a litre!!! And that was for the cheap stuff!I almost certain it was 45p a couple of years ago, at this rate we'll all have to move to Greece and buy an olive grove!

[Richard]

It was around 50p less than a year ago.I could be cynical and suggest that there wouldn't be a shortage if less of the world's food went towards creating an obesity problem in the developed world.

[Karmann Ghiaman]

In 1945, through the incredible bravery of our parents'/grandparents' (one of these probably applies to you) generation, we won a war. In that war the British managed to defeat something

That old chestnut.The British didn't win the war, the Allies did, but the British came out of the war with the mentality of the victor and an economy of a vanquished. The "we won the war" attitude has been holding us back ever since.

Speak for yourself! The British did win the war and there is no reason for a historical truth to 'hold us back'. The American contribution was fantastic, but it was the British (and, admittedly, their Empire) that made sure the nazis were eventually wiped out. The Russians were allies of Nazi Germany until Hitler double-crossed them, a fact which they tend not to recall when going on about 'the Great Patriotic War'.In what sense have we been 'held back'? The point I'm trying to make is that our country's rather a good place to be. Asylum-seekers don't seem too keen on hanging around in France, do they? Rather a compliment to the UK. Admittedly they may have a very unrealistic idea of what it's really like here, but in the last few years Britain has had one of the most powerful economies in the world. Not that such things will last forever.On the subject of winning the war, the German ambassador once complained that the British were obsessed with having won WW2. The late Alan Clark then pointed out that had the Germans won, it might have been somewhat central to their perception of themselves...

[retrogeezer]

Asylum-seekers don't seem too keen on hanging around in France, do they?

Is that possibly because they don't get free houses/healthcare/money from France?

[M'coli]

In 1945, through the incredible bravery of our parents'/grandparents' (one of these probably applies to you) generation, we won a war. In that war the British managed to defeat something

That old chestnut.The British didn't win the war, the Allies did, but the British came out of the war with the mentality of the victor and an economy of a vanquished. The "we won the war" attitude has been holding us back ever since.

Speak for yourself! The British did win the war and there is no reason for a historical truth to 'hold us back'. The American contribution was fantastic, but it was the British (and, admittedly, their Empire) that made sure the nazis were eventually wiped out. The Russians were allies of Nazi Germany until Hitler double-crossed them, a fact which they tend not to recall when going on about 'the Great Patriotic War'.In what sense have we been 'held back'? The point I'm trying to make is that our country's rather a good place to be. Asylum-seekers don't seem too keen on hanging around in France, do they? Rather a compliment to the UK. Admittedly they may have a very unrealistic idea of what it's really like here, but in the last few years Britain has had one of the most powerful economies in the world. Not that such things will last forever.On the subject of winning the war, the German ambassador once complained that the British were obsessed with having won WW2. The late Alan Clark then pointed out that had the Germans won, it might have been somewhat central to their perception of themselves...

I give up

[pogweasel]

This is all getting a little heavy. Interestingly today there was a bit on the Tiscali Homepage for Er Indoors Email about how the credit squeeze & fuel prices is creating 'negative equity' in the car market. Unusual as that sort of site normally fuels the consumer 'need'. We are certainly noticing, as we have struggled to sell our turd-blowa focus. And now she decides she doesn't like the new 'eco' mobile I just yogged three grand on. I shan't grumble too much as I quite like the veg-oil device too.

[fotorabia]

wateva the hell asylum speakers have to do with the price of veggie oil ill never know..apart from the fact they could hardly afford it in whateva goddamn wasteground they just abandoned due to the Empire having decided 4O years ago that it was time to tidy up the backyard but leaving the peasants to do it for themselves..New Zealand got off lightly due to Maori understanding English law and being able to whip Redcoats ass..hence our relative stability..and our Maori battalions winning lotsa allied battles and we where the milk churn and the fruit basket to keep u lot going back in the WW2shurely Hitler n Stalin went hand in hand..but France and Blightly still did bugger all to prevent fascism [French and the Dutch both invited Hitler in]..didnt lift a finger for Spain..as democracy was always a better alternative than communism or anarchy..Germany had more communists than Nazis..Germany never started the WW1..yet were made to pay for it...along comes a Great depression created by the capitalists..and bingo..instant support for fascists Europe wide..funny that..anyone seen a copy of Versailles recently...Germany never stood a chance..toot toot..wheres me crankhandle..

[Karmann Ghiaman]

Those Asylum seekers... They come over here, crossing the Channel on rafts made out of loo rolls from that Sangatte Camp. Then they sign on in Dover and get given:

 

A five bedroom house in Kensington

 

A car

 

A top-of-the-range mobile phone (to keep in touch with the Benefits office)

 

Hoodies & a scholarship to Eton for their asylum-seeking sprogs

 

Tesco vouchers for life

 

250 litres of vegetable oil

 

That's why all those things are so expensive now. It says so in the Daily Mail, so it must be true.