Shite times

[bigstraight6]

Is it just me having a sense of enormous foreboding at the moment with the general economic state associated with the so called 'credit crunch', coupled to the truly horrendous cost of fuel now.Many people are really starting to feel the pinch, including small businesses and it just feels like being on a slippery slope having been pushed from the top by a completely unfit for purpose 'Government'.Oh, and there's this which slipped out on the quiet!http://motoring.aol.co.uk/tax-hike-shoc ... 0309990007I for one am really hoping that this 'New Labour' shower of shite and the unelected bungler Brown get a right thrashing in the local elections, the icing on the cake would be that little prick Livingstone being hoofed out

[Volksy]

I completely agree, just nearly filled my car up, i stopped at £70.00! Looks like i'm gonna have to downsize, as to be honest, it now costs as much to use the car as the astronomical train fares these days. So if i go any long distance the train it is.I'm surprised that the fuel protests havent started again, mind you what's the point of blockading a refinery thats on strike!Kind of a kick in the teeth when you cant afford to put fuel in your car, and teh oil companies admit to profits of £6 billion plus for a 3 month period...

[r.welfare]

For those of us who drive on business, I also find it interesting that since I started work in September 1998, the Fixed Profit Car Scheme mileage rate has not changed from 40p/mile, despite a near-doubling of fuel costs...

[Ross_K]

Things are just as shite here in Ireland.I went to get some diesel this morning - €1 fuggin 31 a litre. And they wonder why people chance driving around on farm diesel?Road tax? Don't get me started. The revenue's not being used to improve the state of the roads - that's for sure.I'm convinced the British and Irish governments won't be happy until they see everyone driving around in Toyota Aygos. Or taking the bus.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Thats all very well dissing the Broon crew, but whats the alternative? I dont see one.

[fotorabia]

Mad Max...quaintly..

[mouseflakes]

Personal, private transport by means of a car is such a huge luxury, but we've all become used to it. We just have to learn to pay the real price for such convenience.Probably tougher for transport companies - but surely they pass the cost on? Since they're all in the same boat in this country there's no competitive disadvantage (price-wise) if they all do the same.I guess we're in the very first throws of a move away from being a fossil-fueled society. It's the old supply and demand situation - more people want oil and it's becoming harder to find.

[Volksy]

Mad Max...quaintly..

more of an 'Eccentric Max'?

[mouseflakes]

Miffed Max?

[Mr Lobster]

Is it just me having a sense of enormous foreboding at the moment with the general economic state associated with the so called 'credit crunch', coupled to the truly horrendous cost of fuel now.I for one am really hoping that this 'New Labour' shower of shite and the unelected bungler Brown get a right thrashing in the local elections, the icing on the cake would be that little prick Livingstone being hoofed out

Couldn't agree more! I would love to see Red Ken kicked out, I really hope he will be.As much as the government are shockingly incompetent, I'm not sure that either of the alternatives would be much better.

[retrogeezer]

It's the old supply and demand situation - more people want oil and it's becoming harder to find.

Well yeh, notwithstanding the 6 billion profit stated above and the approximately 70% in tax per litre we pay inflating the price out of all proportion.

[Ross_K]

Personal, private transport by means of a car is such a huge luxury, but we've all become used to it. We just have to learn to pay the real price for such convenience.

Maybe it could be considered a luxury if you live in a town and have other transport options.But for a huge number of people living in the sticks a car is a necessity for going to work, doing the shopping, etc.

[retrogeezer]

My other half goes to work on the train, but you couldn't get from our house to the Railway station (3 miles) by bus. A pushbike would get stolen from the station, to walk would take 3/4 of an hour meaning she would have to leave at 7am and not be home until 7pm.And what about shopping?? No corner shops anymore - you need to go to a supermarket. How are you supposed to do that without a car? Holidays? well, I guess we could all fly somewhere and use up even more fuel.A car a luxury?? A necessity I think.

[pogweasel]

I think this is half the problem. People in the wrong places and the issue of 'dependency'.Think back a generation and there were still alot of folk without cars. Where I lived as a lad it was near a mile to the nearest shop of any variety, a mile to the village school down unlit, unpavemented roads, and a good trek to the post box, phone box & bus stop. Yet there were still plenty of families who managed just fine without a car. The work thing is interesting. I NEED transport due to the nature of my job (measuring far flung bits of countryside), no two ways about it really. However how many people -could- get by without I often wonder. I tried this hypothesis on the Domestic Manager the other day - it's 5 minutes walk to the station from here, 15 mins on the train and then a 10 minute walk t'other end. Total cost is about a fiver.However she would find this 'unacceptable': £5 of diesel a day (then add tax, insurance, maintainance) and sitting in a traffic jam 40 minutes in the morning is OK though. How many of the other folk in that jam are doing exactly the same? Take my mate's wife for another example, drives 50+ miles a day to earn a tiny amount more than a local job would, surely the value threshold must have been crossed with the pump prices? Still does it though. So do hundreds of thousands of other drones. Yes, it is a ballache, yes it is a pain and yes it is hurting the wallets. But I do have the feeling that the populace are still looking at things arse about face. If you just had 'personal' mileage to travel, i.e. days out, holidays etc, wouldn't hurt at all that the fuel prices were high, though the tax would admittedly still be a bit of a fuquer.Retrogeezer: your post makes reference to the non-proximity of shops, station etc.... BUT you chose to live there - this is the bit that really gets me you see. We can elect to not be dependent by nature of where we pick to live.It's surely one of the key considerations when you put down roots. Isn't it?

[Spottedlaurel]

Given that we have the ability to buy fuel, whatever price it might be, we don’t live somewhere like Zimbabwe, Sudan or the Middle East, we have water on tap and don’t have to queue for our food, and we don’t have to work in truly dangerous, cramped conditions for a pittance, are we really that badly off?

 

I suspect at any point in time people have always felt hard done by, for example I’d imagine living in wartime London wasn’t a barrel of laughs, but as we still enjoy an awful lot of stuff that other countries don’t. Yes, it could be better, but it could be a lot worse…

[Mr_Bo11ox]

IF THE GUVT START'S 2 PUT A TAX ON RWD CAR'S OR DRIFTIN IM GOIN 2 EMGRAITE THEY R TAKIN MOAR TAX BUT THE ROAD IN FRONT OV MY HOUSE IT WORS CONDISHUN THAN 2004 I HAV HAD 2 PUT NEW SHOX ON MY CAR. IS GORDEN BROWN GOIN 2 PAY 4 THOSE LOL I DOUPT IT

[mouseflakes]

My other half goes to work on the train, but you couldn't get from our house to the Railway station (3 miles) by bus. A pushbike would get stolen from the station, to walk would take 3/4 of an hour meaning she would have to leave at 7am and not be home until 7pm.And what about shopping?? No corner shops anymore - you need to go to a supermarket. How are you supposed to do that without a car? Holidays? well, I guess we could all fly somewhere and use up even more fuel.A car a luxury?? A necessity I think.

I'm in exactly the same position retrogeezer - same distance from the station, same problem with cycling (though mine has more to do with arriving at work with a swe@ty arse).I find it as much as a pain as you do - I'm not getting all 'holier than thou' on this.So I drive my car.My point is that we have built our entire way of life around the assumption that oil will never run short and the atmosphere will soak up the waste products from its continued combustion with no ill effect. The car has only become a necessity because we've built our world around it. But it's not necessary for life itself - just our current life style. We survived as a race for long enough without it. It's not a case of drive or die.My guess is that over time we'll have to change the environment we have built so we rely less on the use of oil to get us around.Like you, I'm not keen on the current situation but we may all have to accept that the internal combustion engine can't last forever.

[seth]

I'm with Pogweasel I'm afraid ( He says, sitting in his suburban house with supermarkets at the end of the street ) My last job was 5 miles away and took me 20-30 minutes to drive there using a bunch of fuel particularly in the winter (choke etc.) When I broke my wrist and had to get the bus for 3 months it was a 35min stress free bus ride in the morning - I had to get up 1/4 hour earlier and cost was similar/cheaper. Only issue was that my bus ride home was school chucking out time and could take twice as long. Otherwise I'd have been sorely tempted to give up driving. With fuel costs as they are now maybe I would have.I think people will find themselves accounting much more for fuel costs in future house/work moves. My other half works in an office 50 miles away - costs probably £20 a day now in her fuel efficient 40 year old car. Except she works from home more than half the time or arranges meetings closer to home. IN the past she has also managed to car share with two others. Employers will also need to change to allow more of this sort of thing for those that are able to do it.

[Mr Lobster]

As a society we have in the last 40 / 50 years built our way of life around a dependancy on personal transport in the way that new housing estates, shopping centre and workplaces have been built.One effect of the cost of personal transport could therefore be that we may start to need to live closer to where work, live and socialise as the cost of travelling miles to workplaces etc becomes uneconomic. Just seems a bit like we are going backwards, not forwards.

[pogweasel]

Is that regression undesirable though? I for one think not.

[Mr Lobster]

No, in some respects it would be a positive thing. In most areas there is a lack of community spirit as everyone gets up in a morning, drives miles to work, comes home at nigh and never sees anyone or anything from their community.Perhaps living near to your workplace might make things better. Who knows?Would certainly reduce congestion and has the knock on benefit that with quieter roads, driving would actually become enjoyable again.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Dont forget, folk laugh at the old 'job for life' cliché now, 'theres no such thing' meaning there are a lot of folk out there who through no fault of their own end up moving jobs fairly regularly. I have a good 'professional' job/career but i've moved home for job reasons 5 times in 10 years, so this business of simply choosing a home close to where you work is not always as easy as that. if i'd bought a house close to my first job id have a right one up there.... well, I wouldnt, cos I'd have made a fuggin massive packet on the back of its value, but you cant rely on that to happen can you.

[Volksy]

Further to my previous post, I'm quite lucky as I can change my lifestyle to suit. I'm moving into the city centre in about 4 weeks, about 5 mins walk from a central strain station. I work from home, something that a huge amount of companies do not offer despite it being entirely feasable. I have no dependants, so proximity to 'better' schools is not an issue.I'll start getting my weekly shop delivered, as to be honest the £5 it generally costs is well worth the hassle of driving to and from a supermarket and trapseing round them.So my car will become largely redundant, will i get rid of it all together? No, of course not. I am willing to adapt, which for myself is easier than most. But some people have very little choice, it's not as easy as saying "well you chose to live there", affordability, job availiability, schools etc etc all come into the consideration for most.. And in most cases, lots of people (a blinkered view i do agree) see the cost of moving, uprooting, etc. far outweighs the rise in fuel prices.

[retrogeezer]

Retrogeezer: your post makes reference to the non-proximity of shops, station etc.... BUT you chose to live there - this is the bit that really gets me you see. We can elect to not be dependent by nature of where we pick to live. It's surely one of the key considerations when you put down roots. Isn't it?

I chose to live here as its about the only place we could afford a nice house. We've had to move 200 miles from our families to do that too.Near the railway station is a shitehole.And it was not my choice that the great leaders of this wonderful land chose to sell off or close down the industries we once had where all the local people worked in the same factory/mill/workshop etc.I don't think I know anyone that lives close to their work, as already stated, employers move, companies get taken over, many went bankrupt in the early 90's. You take a job where you can get it, you can't always afford to spend 10k plus(a large proportion being even more bloody tax) moving to be near it...I also would not want to live near a supermarket with the thousands of cars and the delivery trucks in & out all day - noise,pollution,traffic - no thanks.Travelling for work is not a new thing anyway, my dad used to drive from Blackwater in Surrey up the M3 to Fulwell everyday for his job back in the 70/80'sOh, and we have moved from Hampshire to Cheshire to buy a bigger house and keep the same low mortgage so that we can pay it off before we are 50 and just have low paid jobs to give us enough to get by on.Staying where we were would have meant quadrupling our mortgage for the same house and having to earn 4 times as much to survive and therefore not having much of a life.

[55bloke]

I share the sense of foreboding mentioned at the start of this thread- I do wonder if I'm not a memeber of the luckiest generation that has, or ever will, exist? Being born in England in the 50s, I'm a member of the only generation for centuries (I think this is right) who hasn't lived through a MAJOR war, have grown up in a generally peaceful and tolerant society, and enjoyed the delights of car ownership at relatively low cost and on generally un crowded roads. Things have been changing fast over the last 10 years or so- the roads are crowded to the point of grinding to a halt and car ownership is becoming expensive and almost pointless- I've heard it said that it would be cheaper to not own a car at all, and use taxis for any journey that public transport can't sevice. I really enjoy driving, and the freedom that car ownership brings, and I love my particular car, but the sensible side of me is really wondering how much longer I can tolerate the costs of a large, thisty old car! No one seems to have any respect for any one or any thing, oil is going to run out fairly soon, and religious extremism is on the point of ripping society to pieces. Add climate change and food shortage to this list, and I truly fear for the future of those who are children now. Sorry if that's all a bit serious and depressing, but it's a bit of a hobby horse with me!

[Torsten2001]

I do love stuff with an engine, my whole work and leisure life is bikes and cars but something has to be done, we don't need them, we should stop making them and maintain the ones we have, the cars we crush may be recycled but generally into less durable materials and therefore into landfill even quicker, and that is why autoshite is so important!

[retrogeezer]

Something else thats just popped into my head as well is that my generation (I'm 38 ) seems to be the first one that has needed BOTH partners earning in order to get by. Only my dad used to work and I pretty sure nearly all my friends only had a dad at work. The mums used to have a little part time job or be a dinner lady at school. My dad was only a bus driver so hardly a well paid job either.Mortgages were covered by one salary with no problems then. The massive rises in inflation and the cost of living have forced both partners to have to work in most families, this having a knock-on effect on the amount of cars owned/on the road etc.Another point about where we have chosen to live, it's within walking distance of a good school - something else that never used to have to be a consideration when moving house.

[M'coli]

Thats all very well dissing the Broon crew, but whats the alternative? I dont see one.

Indeed. Which flavour of capitalism would you like, sir - red, yellow or blue?

[pogweasel]

Blame womens lib.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Nonsense, its all these immigrants innit, STEELIN R JOBS, BRITISH JOBS 4 BRITISH PPL LOL! What wud r dad's say, they hav fort in 2 world worz n we r givin away all r wurk 2 forrinerz! etc etc.