May we have a serious discussion regarding Rover engines?

[pogweasel]

Now, quite simply, I would very much like one of the late MG/Rover products to grace my driveway.

In an ideal world it would be a ZT with a BMW diesel donk in it, but these are still well outside my shite budget.

 

ZR/ZS/ZT's with K's and KV6's are bloody buttons cheap though (esp the 190 ZS's), they can't really be that bad can they? As I understand it they are fairly good on juice, they are really peppy and they sound bloody glorious. But OBV have the worst reputation of eVar. If buying K, should it be a case of get the cheapest and wait for the inevitable, or pay for one that's been "done" and hop it got done right??

 

(Also, a ZS diesel is appealing, mostly because driving a 'sporty' hatch with an engine from a sherpa is so wrong it's right.)

[dollywobbler]

Biggest problems with the V6 is actually tax - aren't they all in a super-pricey group? I think a properly sorted, enthusiast owned K-Series ZT would be a nice motor. Lots of tune-up goodies for them too.

 

Is the diesel L-Series really related to the Perkins Prima? I recently wrote a ZS tuning guide, and you can do a lot to the diesels, as well as the K-Series (bit more restricted with the V6). Only issue seems to be that really, the gearbox was already handling more torque than it was designed for... (I wasn't able to find out whether stronger bearings can be fitted, I think it's the same box as the 620ti - there's another choice motor for you - so maybe you can).

[pogweasel]

Is the diesel L-Series really related to the Perkins Prima?

According to wikipedia, yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_L-Series_engine

Hmm, L-series turbo shiney-grille Sherpa, now there's a thought

[ashmicro]

I've grown tired of saying this, but I'll repeat it anyway : I've had a metric shitload of K Series cars over the years, and have never had an HGF. I'm a little paranoid over servicing, and always change the TB, waterpump and stat every 2 years. I also use the OAT 5 year coolant, flushed and changed every 2 years. Needless to say, I constantly check the expansion tank, and have a good look round for leaks on a regular basis. Changing the HG for a MLS one isn't a bad job if the original hasn't actually failed (no flushing required etc), but I've only ever done it on other peoples K cars, and only as a precaution (get the bolts too).

 

Generally, there's a lot of shit talked about all engines, not just the K Series. I've recently got a 997 Porker, and the first thing some dummy said to me was about "overheating aircooled Porsches". Go figure!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Has a ZT190 got a Rover PG1 gearbox then? Like that crap old thing in my 220? They must have done somethign to beef them up if so, as these boxes are easily mulched in a 200bhp 800 turbo, and I imagine the Zt to be a fair bit heavier, plus you'd hope for better reliability from a ZT than an 800

[Albert Ross]

Buy a Rover 75 with the HGF already installed. Less quid to spend straight off, and you can redo the lump all in for around £130 including a skim.

[Steve_RS]

Having a brother-in-law who works at a scrappy.... (god bless the shite that has passed through his hands )

 

Nearly every Rover/MG with a K-Series lump, that comes in to his yard as scrap, is due to Head Gasket Failure.

 

Anything before year 2000 usually ends up 'in-the-bin' (which entails being raped for spares and squished)

Anything after year 2000 usually gets fixed and sold on (£100 job if you know what you're doing)

 

(This is not because engines after 2000 are better - just the face-value of the car decides it's fate)

 

If the servicing of the engine is neglected - headgasket failure is inevitable.

[cort16]

You can get Rover 75 CDT's with the BMW dizzler in it for not that much these days. £1000 to £1500 should get you a decent one I'd think.

The early ones are tuned right down to 115bhp though. funny how the 3 series of the same vintage has 136. I can't think of a more comfortable way of getting about on decent mpgz for not much money really.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-ROVER-75-2-0-CDT-50-MPG-HISTORY-EXCELLENT-PX-SWAP-/280617946846?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4156220ede

 

Here's a no reserve facelift one with a mere 235,000 miles on it. What could go wrong?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2005-ROVER-75-CLASSIC-CDT-AUTO-SILVER-BARGAIN-SALE-/270713594663?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3f07c9a327

 

My mates got a 2004 320d and the swirl flaps on the inlet manifold bust off and fell into cylinder making short work of an expensive engine. It's a classic case of BMW pissing about trying to be smart moving the air around in the inlet for 0.00000000009% more efficiency not thinking that in 5 years time they might bust off and lunch the engine. There's even a company that does a blanking plate kit so you can remove the troublesome wee bastards. I wonder if the Rover versions have the same problem?

[shite_meister]

Having worked in an MG Rover garage I must say that in all honesty I never saw one V6 K series but that may because there aren't any in Jersey I don't know. I did see an awfull lot of HGF on 200s and Freelanders mainly but as I understand there is head gasket set containing a modified oil ladder although research suggests that these can only be fitted to vehicles with an alloy sump.

 

My experiences of a properly working K-series are positive though, I found it to be a revvy yet willing engine that belies its cc in a way that my BMW M42-engine 16v 318is doesn't. Perhaps with some mechanical sympathy and TLC they might actually be ok I don't know, I only ever saw them come in from people who just ran 'cars' rather than looked after and understood a piece of machinery.

 

I'm a bit pissed but generally I try only to have an opinion on stuff I have first hand experience with, my comments may not be what you're looking for since you're talking V6s but its all K-series at the end of the day...

[Barry Cade]

I worked in a Rover dealer for a good while too, and love the K-series. Bloody great engine and very misunderstood. I've owned a fair few, as has the MIL, and never a problem. I'm fanatical about servicing, and she puts some oil in when the light comes on. Doesn't seem to matter, they just keep going. She always gets the 1400, which is the best one IMO. If anything the 1800's seem to be the most prone to HGF, but as has been said, not a bad job to do, even in an MGF. What pi$$ses me off most is that whenever a Rover has a problem, you get the sharp intake of breath and the scratch of the chin.. " that'll be the head gasket.. " More often you'll find the inlet manifold gasket is gone on no 4 cylinder, which allows a little coolant in, causing some steam out the exhaust, loss of coolant and followed by a missfire. Couple of quid and an hours spannering sorts it no probs.

 

KV6's seem to suffer with a stupid thermostat setup, and are a real bugger to bleed properly, and this can also be mistaken for HGF. They are a bit of a bugger to work on though, I'd give these a miss. Get a proper one with a Mustang donkey in it!

 

Working on a 75 at the moment, all the bits inside the doors are pants.. 50 notes for 2 inner door handles because a stupid 10p plastic clip breaks.. window cables are as thick as mountain bike gear cables.. 3 of them gone in the same car.. lovely to drive though. Just missed a 75 diesel tourer on a 52 plate a few weeks back, which was scrapped because it needed brake pipes and a couple of tyres.. madness.

[Des]

I think the K series is a very nice little thing, can put out a good level of power for its size/weight, seems to have picked up a bit of a reputation as a bad boy, repeatedly popping its head, I do wonder if this is justified, the best of engines can sploodge their coolant and I've seen various lumps of any brand with long and expensive histories of gaskets, skims, stripping heads and blocks for pressure testing. Replace the gasket one last time, fix the original fault, be it dead cooling fan, rad blocked, 'stat stuck, (even once found a water pump impeller that had detached) and the jobs a good un.

 

The Rover V8 on the other hand, used to be bullet proof but later ones seem to pop their gasket and it can turn out the block has failed, common theories are cracked block or liner slip. I've done a few, and have worked out my own kind of theory. Many years ago I was putting one back together, being patient and doing it properly when a twat suggested I omit the outer head bolts each side, I asked him not to annoy me with such nonsense, in spite of my derision the guy insisted, to ignore his advice would prove disastrous. Years pass and I find myself doing another V8, another jerk appears, yet another session of the same stupid crap, it puzzles me where this bollocks comes from. More years pass and the next V8 I do is my own, get stripping only to find there's no outer headbolts,it gets better, there's no holes for them to go into, FFS Rover what did you want to do that for, don't leave bolts out, put more in, like you did with the Mini that time.

I pressure tested the block, bit of a faff, albeit worthwhile as I found it leaking at the top of a liner where differing metals join, so it looks like a crack or at least a separation between the steel liner and alloy block, and bugger me backways if it isn't right next to the hole for the headbolt, in what would have been the centre row before Rover got deleting and now has had to bear god only knows how much more stress, it's a testament to the original design that such abuse will merely cause tiny cracks rather than pull a whacking great lump out.

 

A thought on the K series, did they tend to knock out a water pump or radiator by about middle age? Most cars of that era certainly did, I'm looking at you Vauxhall, Ford, VW which certainly would have had some form of cooling system repair, and thusly new antifreeze, would then miss out on the breakdown of elderly corrosion inhibitors leading to rusty sludge for coolant and an engine hot like Marina the German bonnet flange.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

I think the L-series is related to the Prima very loosely, it's a bit like saying an early '00s Ford 1.8DI is just the same as a 1980s Ford Escort diesel engine.

They do sound like a Prima though.

[AnthonyG]

I was under the impression that the KV6 as fitted to the 75 and ZT was a lot more reliable than the one in the 800 series, due to developments done after poor reliability in 1996/7. I'm not aware they are particularly prone to HGF, but they are complicated engine, and therefore pricy to work on. You want to buy one after the (three) cambelt job has been done. Finding a decent independent specialist is also a good idea.

 

I had a 75 V6, a 2 litre, was a very nice car and I would happily have one again, although I would be more keen on the diesel now. You can get all 75 diesels chipped to give the BMW level perfomance.

 

The 75 owners club is good, with an excellent forum. I think you can post without being a member. Its a good source of honest cars as well.

[dollywobbler]

Has a ZT190 got a Rover PG1 gearbox then? Like that crap old thing in my 220? They must have done somethign to beef them up if so, as these boxes are easily mulched in a 200bhp 800 turbo, and I imagine the Zt to be a fair bit heavier, plus you'd hope for better reliability from a ZT than an 800

 

I may have confused - I was talking about the ZS, which does have the PG1 when allied to the L-Series - not sure about other engines and no idea what 'box the ZT has.

[scaryoldcortina]

I think the L-series is related to the Prima very loosely, it's a bit like saying an early '00s Ford 1.8DI is just the same as a 1980s Ford Escort diesel engine.

They do sound like a Prima though.

 

and it's such fun watching peoples faces when you tell them that their reliable honda/BMW diesel is actually a perkie

[Timewaster]

May we have a serious discussion regarding Rover engines?

 

Amazingly it seems YES we can!

 

Funnily enough I was searching the bay for 75's and ZT's only last night. I prefer the look of the earlier 75 but I dont think I could live with some of the fudgey coloured interiors, especially the beige steering wheels.

 

Diesel ZT estate in Gunmetal for me please.

[Shep Shepherd]

The biggest engine problem I had with my 1994 214Si was the fact that the cooling system was virtually impossible to bleed properly after changing the coolant, leading to airlocks which would manifest themselves at random weeks or months after doing the job Other than that, it was smooth, powerful, economical and easy to work on

[Lankytim]

I like K series lumps, much of the HG blowing repuatation comes from their marginal cooling system, any sort of leak often leads to overheating before the leak is detected- these engines do not like being overheated! Leaking waterpumps can be quite common, I had a rover metro which was diagnosed with HGF by an "expert" mechanic after it started losing water. I wasn't convinced and eventually found the waterpump was leaking. I ignored it, topping up the water when necessary until the leak became too much and the poor metro blew its top on the M6. Gutted!!

[r.welfare]

There's a fantastic very early (chassis number in the first 200) 75 2.0V6 for sale on Macdroitwich for £950 at the moment, very tempting. Although I can see the attraction of a ZS180. Alternatively, why not a Civic VTI for similar money and (potentially) more reliability? Wouldn't have the V6 noise though.

 

K's are great, my mum's old Metro 1.1 put up with 40k of abuse from me and my brother with nary a problem and more recently, a mate ran a very late (V-plate) 825 KV6 Sterling coupe for a few years with minimal maintenance and no issues, although it was pretty shabby at the end!

[Pete-M]

I like Rover 75s.

 

I did a fair few miles a couple of years ago in a 75 cdt thing and it was a properly nice car... the clutch started to play silly buggers on it though, so it was sold on (to the trade) sharpish. Excellent at motorway stuff, really very good indeed, better than a BMW 3.

 

The MG ZT-T 260 is something that I desperately want.

 

I also like the K series engine, when it's working as it should it's a brilliant motor. Smooth, revvy, torquey, good on fuel and quite pokey in the right spec. It's just unfortunate that more seem to have suffered HGF than survived. I'd risk £5-600 on a tidy 2.5 with leather and all the toys, but no more than that. If it's working, it's worth scrap value. If it's not, then no loss. Just a shame that it's come to that with what should have been the car that saved Rover.

[Station]

Yeah, the 75's are ace, my brother bought on in estate form and it was epic, I fitted a solid IKEA couch in the back of it, but he sold it because people said it looked like a hearse!

I've got a 1.8 and as a sucker to pain, I've just got a 1.4 16v. I don't pretend to understand about things like power delivery and power bands and all that too much, but they feel similar, like loads of instant power and a really nice roar over 3,000rpm.

If you change the HG to a MLS before the car gets HGF, I think it'll be fine. I've read the block warps as well in some cases. The new gasket has separate fire rings which seal the cylinder liners properly.

I can't say many people who bought 25's/MGF's would know the first thing about engines, which explain why most end up perfectly fine, but with the old HGF. I reckon there's also a lot of dubious information on those Rover/MG forums as well. I can't say anyone really knows if that's the end of the HGF thing with the new gaskets, but it's looking very hopeful (there's an HGF register on the internet somewhere).

 

I just read this after a search:

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrade ... es_and.htm

[CIH]

I've said for ages the k-series was a decent motor, ruined when they were bolted together by the usual BL/Rover penny pinching. Usually to the LOLs of "expets" who get all their info from the likes of TopGear.