1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - LIVE footage from MoT station - see page 55

[Rightnider]

I’ve not not done business with this Ukrainian company, but they answer emails and seem pretty good. 
https://polypro.com.ua/en/katalog/ford/sierra/1987-1993-2/

[danthecapriman]

6 minutes ago, lisbon_road said:

That's very good advice - I had the Powerflex yellow ones, but as @danthecapriman says, for road use, get the softest you can.  Normally measured by shore hardness, lower better for road use.  

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I heard about some people having stress fractures and damage to their cars from going totally overboard with fitting those performance bushes. There’s so little flex in them all the force and shock was going through the cars body.

[lisbon_road]

4 minutes ago, Rightnider said:

I’ve not not done business with this Ukrainian company, but they answer emails and seem pretty good. 
https://polypro.com.ua/en/katalog/ford/sierra/1987-1993-2/

Interesting - they are different to the Powerflex ones.  All coming back to me now.  The Powerflex ones are good, I do remember that mine used to make a sort of graunching noise (is that a word?) and I had to lubricate them with copperslip to stop it, which was ok.  The Powerflex seem to move against the arm on the outside of the PU material.  The Ukrainian ones are using a similar construction to the original bushes which undergo a torsional twist in the rubber when they move, as they have an outer metal ring.  Not sure whether that is better or not.  Also not sure I am helping here.  

[sierraman]

Fit the PU ones and forget. They were a very common fault back in the day, Ford couldn’t get suspension durability right until about the Mk3 Mondeo, the Mk1/2 were dreadful in that respect, you were constantly changing arms etc. 

The crank end seal sounds like it’s contaminated the clutch, you can usually ‘burn it off’ for a while with a few full bore take offs 😂. When they get really bad they get much worse when hot. I’ve seen plenty over the years where the clutch had quite a bit of life in it but the crank pissed all over the show and ruined the clutch. Or on Mk1/2 Mondeos where someone saved £18 on a clutch change then regretted that a few thousand down the line when the seal went. 

[Peter C]

@danthecapriman

@lisbon_road

Nut and washer removed and crowbar test repeated.

The rubber bush isn’t cracked but must be quite soft as it allows approx 3mm of vertical movement. I presume that loads imposed on the bush as the car is slowing down are significantly higher than what I managed to replicate with a crowbar. 

Would this amount of flex in the bush cause brake judder? 

[lisbon_road]

3 minutes ago, Peter C said:

@danthecapriman

@lisbon_road

Nut and washer removed and crowbar test repeated.

 

The rubber bush isn’t cracked but must be quite soft as it allows approx 3mm of vertical movement. I presume that loads imposed on the bush as the car is slowing down are significantly higher than what I managed to replicate with a crowbar. 

Would this amount of flex in the bush cause brake judder? 

Hard to judge.  One approach might be to do as @sierraman has said - fit and forget, as even if they aren't that bad, they won't last - we all agree on that.  Then you've eliminated a possibility.  

[danthecapriman]

16 minutes ago, Peter C said:

@danthecapriman

@lisbon_road

Nut and washer removed and crowbar test repeated.

The rubber bush isn’t cracked but must be quite soft as it allows approx 3mm of vertical movement. I presume that loads imposed on the bush as the car is slowing down are significantly higher than what I managed to replicate with a crowbar. 

Would this amount of flex in the bush cause brake judder? 

It doesn’t look bad to me, but I’m not stood in front of the car.

There should always be some amount of flex in them, that’s what they’re intended to do. Ultimately, the rubber ones will eventually perish and distort though, so fitting a set of PU ones is a much more permanent solution if you can.

Whether replacing them will cure the juddering through the steering though… maybe it will. Although I’m not convinced… I might be wrong though.

[Peter C]

[MVX11V]

Well, I just recently had my first ever glazed pads and hardening of the pad material causing extreme and uncontrollable brake judder. Discs were within, tolerances, better than the new ones I replaced them with.

[vtec-e]

I think you've got a warped disk, probably on the old rusty caliper side. I recently had a warped disk on the back of the Ix20, and could feel it when braking. If new disks are cheap and easily available, I would replace them first and see if that helps the juddering.

[Peter C]

Pair of new discs ordered, £29 inc p&p, should be with me by Friday.

[Wibble]

5 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Pair of new discs ordered, £29 inc p&p, should be with me by Friday.

New pads too, I hope.

[Peter C]

6 minutes ago, Wibble said:

New pads too, I hope.

My pads have plenty of meat on them and I propose to give them a little rub down prior to fitting.

[danthecapriman]

14 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Pair of new discs ordered, £29 inc p&p, should be with me by Friday.

I wonder if you could fit the new discs as cleanly as possible then give the car a quick test drive to see if the vibration is gone. If it is all good. But if not take them back off and return them?? 
Or is that a bit twat-ish?

[Peter C]

3 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

I wonder if you could fit the new discs as cleanly as possible then give the car a quick test drive to see if the vibration is gone. If it is all good. But if not take them back off and return them?? 
Or is that a bit twat-ish?

If I was paying £290 and the brake judder wasn’t sorted I might be tempted to be a twat but it’s not worth the bother for £29.

[sierraman]

Check run out with a DTI if you’ve got one. 

[Peter C]

1 minute ago, sierraman said:

Check run out with a DTI if you’ve got one. 

I don’t, unfortunately.

Is it worth putting a straight edge on the side of the disc? Or not, I will just replace the discs and be done with!

[sierraman]

Just now, Peter C said:

I don’t, unfortunately.

Is it worth putting a straight edge on the side of the disc? Or not, I will just replace the discs and be done with!

No not really unless they’re spectacularly shit discs. You are looking for run out when it sits on the hub. Hence it’s imperative to clean the flange up throughly befofe fitment. A basic DTI gauge isn’t that dear, could be a useful thing to have. It’ll not be the finest piece of craftsmanship known to man but accurate enough for this purpose. 

[lisbon_road]

1 minute ago, Peter C said:

I don’t, unfortunately.

Is it worth putting a straight edge on the side of the disc? Or not, I will just replace the discs and be done with!

I don't think so.  Worth making sure the hub is really really clean - I've fixed run out before simply by removing a drum, cleaning everything up and putting it back together.  Rust had got underneath the disc.  You might spot something with a straight edge but I doubt it.  

DTI is worth having, need to make sure disc is bolted down properly.  But this time, just fit them.  

 

[danthecapriman]

1 minute ago, Peter C said:

I don’t, unfortunately.

Is it worth putting a straight edge on the side of the disc? Or not, I will just replace the discs and be done with!

It’s unlikely you’ll see much with a straight edge unless they’re really bad! It doesn’t take a great deal of warping to get vibration through from them. 
When you strip the old discs off, give the mating surfaces of the hub a good clean up too. It can be as little as a bit of rust and dirt between the disc & hub that can stop them sitting together flat which would do the same thing.

[lisbon_road]

2 minutes ago, sierraman said:

No not really unless they’re spectacularly shit discs. You are looking for run out when it sits on the hub. Hence it’s imperative to clean the flange up throughly befofe fitment. A basic DTI gauge isn’t that dear, could be a useful thing to have. It’ll not be the finest piece of craftsmanship known to man but accurate enough for this purpose. 

Well I'm on the same page as @sierraman for sure!  (edit: and @danthecapriman)

Incidentally Peter, first discs I changed on my Sierra were the factory originals and I had a bad job getting them off.  I was belting them with a hammer and so on.  In the end, I got them off by hacksawing through the flat part, then the disc stress relieves and falls off.  Much (much) easier than it sounds - cast iron cuts really easily.  

[danthecapriman]

1 minute ago, lisbon_road said:

Well I'm on the same page as @sierraman for sure!  (edit: and @danthecapriman)

Incidentally Peter, first discs I changed on my Sierra were the factory originals and I had a bad job getting them off.  I was belting them with a hammer and so on.  In the end, I got them off by hacksawing through the flat part, then the disc stress relieves and falls off.  Much (much) easier than it sounds - cast iron cuts really easily.  

There’s three of us all sat here thinking and typing the same!😄 great minds and all that!

[sierraman]

2 minutes ago, lisbon_road said:

Well I'm on the same page as @sierraman for sure!  (edit: and @danthecapriman)

Incidentally Peter, first discs I changed on my Sierra were the factory originals and I had a bad job getting them off.  I was belting them with a hammer and so on.  In the end, I got them off by hacksawing through the flat part, then the disc stress relieves and falls off.  Much (much) easier than it sounds - cast iron cuts really easily.  

I had that on a Mondeo years ago, they were welded to the hub. As you say a cut through the disc usually relieves them, just got to go careful round the boots etc on a FWD. Usually people go braying them with a sledgehammer that does the bearing no good.

[Peter C]

What a great bunch of geniuses!

@lisbon_road My discs are loose on the hubs, so no need to cut or smash them off!

[lisbon_road]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I had that on a Mondeo years ago, they were welded to the hub. As you say a cut through the disc usually relieves them, just got to go careful round the boots etc on a FWD. Usually people go braying them with a sledgehammer that does the bearing no good.

I think it is worse on the original discs, as in the factory when it all gets put together, everything is really clean and fresh and tends to bond together really easily.  That's my theory anyway.  Peter's car is very low milage and might well have the original discs.  

Edit: clearly not, oh well...........

[sierraman]

With those infernal assembly screws then inevitably get jettisoned on cars.

[grogee]

3 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Some all modern rubber is absolutely crap

FTFY 

It's a recurring theme here on AS. I lost count of the amount of 'new' rubber bits and bobs people have fitted only for them to fail within days. See also: fuel hose. 

There doesn't seem to be any guarantee if you use Brand X or Brand Y - if it's new, it's shit. 

My pet theory is that the EU banned some sort of additive that Made Rubber Great Again. I have absolutely zero evidence for this and I'm also very pro-EU. 

[danthecapriman]

1 hour ago, grogee said:

FTFY 

It's a recurring theme here on AS. I lost count of the amount of 'new' rubber bits and bobs people have fitted only for them to fail within days. See also: fuel hose. 

There doesn't seem to be any guarantee if you use Brand X or Brand Y - if it's new, it's shit. 

My pet theory is that the EU banned some sort of additive that Made Rubber Great Again. I have absolutely zero evidence for this and I'm also very pro-EU. 

Either that, or it’s down to cost. Everyone wants goods at the absolute minimum price so quality suffers. 
Could be a combination of the two?

Who knows, but either way rubber stuff now is absolutely shit. See also - condensers. Old ones used to be pretty good. Modern ones are absolutely crap.

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

FTFY 

It's a recurring theme here on AS. I lost count of the amount of 'new' rubber bits and bobs people have fitted only for them to fail within days. See also: fuel hose. 

There doesn't seem to be any guarantee if you use Brand X or Brand Y - if it's new, it's shit. 

My pet theory is that the EU banned some sort of additive that Made Rubber Great Again. I have absolutely zero evidence for this and I'm also very pro-EU. 

Mehle branded wishbones on The Bini of Doom earned an advisory on the big rear bushes after two years and 7,000 miles.

My wife weighs 50 kilos and drives like a nun with a basket load of babies on the back seat.

 

[EyesWeldedShut]

Meant to actually say:

 If you have not yet tried just refitting the discs after a serious wire brushing of all the mating surfaced then try that first. Thinking that there is a teeny, tiny chance of some  crud growing in there (law of sod all says, feck all chance of that unless you are a Lucky, Lucky B’stad)

Then go for the new discs.

Then look at everything else.

 I’ve just been pissing around with a very similar problem on the SLK and the last thing I tried was £120 worth of discs and pads. I should have tried that immediately after replacing the borked caliper 🤨

 But, being Scottish…….🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿