Toyota's "Lancia" moment

[scooters]

well well well - "why do you drive that old car - modern ones are safer and more reliable".....my scrotum!Toyota all over the press with dodgey throttles and now the Prius has dodgey brakes (chortle).....estimates are this will cost them up to $4bn globally with product recalls on half a dozen models going back 5 years - evidence suggests that this could actually be an issue going back 10 years. Their infrastructure is creaking badly and dealers are unable to cope witht he volumes of concerned customers. Bad bnews for a company who rely on ther reputation for reliability.Slightly unlucky for them however as such recalls are not uncommon - a colleague has a 3 year old Rangey and the front diff ate itself the other day - contacted an independent and it is a product recall which had not yet been made public. The 'perception' of issues is as damaging as the reality for Toyota - their brand may not recover from this - and this is where you can not have your cake and eat it - trading cars based on 'soft' ideals - lifestyle - image etc leaves you open to serious risk should those perceptions change - look how long it has taken VAG to get the Skoda brand right?I personally prefer to trust my family's safety to technology that has been around a while - hence the family car is a Volvo 850....but then again, I am a bit odd.I for one do not undestand the 'reliability' reputation Toyota have - IMHO they are not reliable especially over 80k and especially diesels - you only have to go on ebay to see the number of Tdis and larger petrol engines that have head problems - poor cooling design means they eat head gaskets - reliable my codling!

[Cavcraft]

I have to say my experience of Toyotas is that they are reliable and I think the chocolate h/g issues were more around the older 2.4TD engined models.How it effects future sales is debatable I suppose, they do have a large following from people who've owned them for years and not had any major trouble from them. It'll certainly be interesting to watch though.

[Betaphile]

I think the way they are handling it from a PR perspective leaves a lot to be desired, but I suppose it's not being held by the US Transportation Secretary effectively coming out and (all but) saying owners should leave their cars in the garage until further notice. I definitely think Hyundai are rubbing their hands over this opportunity though - we could look back and define this as the pivotal moment where Hyundai picked up the final bit of momentum they needed to become global #1.

[pogweasel]

It IS pretty disasterous, plus could have a significant knock on, what with the C1 & 107 being similarly affected.

[seth]

So, what is the actual problem? Do we know what they are fixing? Is it a mechanical issue or something electronic?*goes off pondering if they're just adding an extra return spring....

[pogweasel]

http://www.toyota.co.uk/recall/index.html

 

Appears they are beefing up the mechanism with old offcuts they found in a skip round the back...

[Guest]

I had to reverse my dad's Avensis out of the drive today, his car could be affected by this recall. I confronted Death, stared him right in the eye and said "No. I've got to go to work, I haven't got much annual leave left".Least they're fixing it though, if it was BL they'd probably just drive their Ital-based limo through angry crowds and wait for it to blow over.

[scooters]

the chappie on the wireless this morning was saying that Toyota has expanded far too quickly and now has the capacity to make 10 million cars a year....however, they only sell between 6-7million. In order to save money and cut costs cross model parts are used more in Toyota than BL did in the 70's - the consequence should one of those parts develop a problem means that you end up having a cross brand recall - hence 6 odd models.The irony being that the issue probably only effects one in gawd knows how many but the perception of the problem in todays hysterical meeja society together with loads of rightly cheesed off customers will be fatal for the brand. I would be suprised if Toyota will be able to survive this especially in markets where their cars are sold on tick - (US, EU etc)

[Tayne]

.

[pogweasel]

They could have just employed the "Pinto Principal"...

[garethj]

From what I've heard Toyota dealers are good on the whole, so as long as they handle it well Toyota shouldn't have any problems with future sales.There's still less chance of the brakes failing on a new Toyota than on one of our old snotters IMHO The difference is, driving an old car you're probably ready for it.

[seth]

http://www.toyota.co.uk/recall/index.htmlAppears they are beefing up the mechanism with old offcuts they found in a skip round the back...

Thanks Pog. Should have looked for that myself really

The issue involves a friction device in the pedal designed to provide the proper "feel" by adding resistance and making the pedal steady and stable.

Some guffawing going on here. Bloody modern car complexity. So they have to add an "assembly of parts" to provide the "poper feel" by adding friction. Shock! Rubbing parts wear and make it sticky! Stupid. Absolutely stupid.

[Volksy]

They could have just employed the "Pinto Principal"...

Exhibit One: Ford's Cost/Benefit Analysis Benefits and Costs Relating to Fuel Leakage Associated with the Static Rollover Test Portion of FMVSS 208BenefitsSavings: 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries, 2100 burned vehicles Unit Cost: $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury, $700 per vehicleTotal Benefit: 180 x ($200,000) + 180 x ($67,000) + 2100 x ($700) = $49.5 MillionCostsSales: 11 million cars, 1.5 million light trucks Unit Cost: $11 per car, $11 per truckTotal Cost: 11,000,000 x ($11) + 1,500,000 x ($ I 1) = $137 MillionFrom Ford Motor Company internal memorandum: "Fatalities Associated with Crash­-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires." Source: Douglas Birsch and John H. Fielder, THE FORD PINTO CASE: A STUDY IN APPLIED ETHICS. BUSINESS, AND TECHNOLOGY. p. 28.1994.Source: http://www.wfu.edu/~palmitar/Law&Valuat ... pinto.html

[CIH]

How it effects future sales is debatable I suppose, they do have a large following from people who've owned them for years and not had any major trouble from them. It'll certainly be interesting to watch though.

Fifty years ago, Chrylser, GM and Ford MoCo all enjoyed that kind of reputation and customer loyalty...

[fiatdaft]

it also happened to audi in america in 1986,i think its safe to say audi's reputation has improved since then.

[Alexg]

Apparently it only affects C1 and 107 with ESP. Which apparently in the UK is only about 60 Citroens. Im guessing Peugeot is about the same. So looks like Toyota have to ride this out themselves.To be fair though, recalls happen all the time and its only the scale of cars involved that has caused this to be over publicised. The amount of media coverage this has received will cause far more damage than Toyota would have ever predicted. But in 2 months time it will all be forgotten.On another note did anyone listen to Radio 5 live this morning? They were discussing the recall and taking callers including some bellend moaning that it couldnt get booked in for 3 weeks and they didn't have a curtasy car and it wasnt good enough - seriously, baring in mind the scale of this what is the best that he expected? But on a lighter note a caller with a Yaris Verso was on the line and so was the chap form Sniff Petrol (whos name escapes me). The Verso owner explained how the problem hit his wifes car as she over took and she didn't know what to do and lost control almost crashing. The bloke from Sniffs response was she shouldnt be on the road then...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

DID PRINCESS DI'S LIMO HAVE TOYOTA ACCELERATOR PEDAL FITTED? EXCLUSIVE NEW EVIDENCE P12 Plus migrant piss take story and house price crash forecast p1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11

[Guest]

Toyota Accelerator Pedal Disaster: Are immigrant terrorist extremists to blame?

 

Yes. (continued next page)

[saabhappy]

I'd venture to suggest that a lot of Toyota owners don't come into the "enthusiast" category who read car stuff and make informed decisions, they buy because they believe the car's reputation for not breaking down. In the USA, Hyundai are the company that could hurt them, no doubt, but I wonder if Toyota-buying is a habit for their target market which will be hard to break. "I need a new car. Better ring the Toyota dealer then." These folks could be scared, and Toyota could suffer.

[warren t claim]

WILL A TOYOTA IN YOUR DRIVEWAY AFFECT HOUSE PRICES IN YOUR ROAD???

[scooters]

mind you - STIKIN GAZ PEDAL MEENZ G84DRIFTIN

[The Liberator]

CAN TOYOTA ACCELERATOR PEDALS GIVE YOU CANCER?Thanks Mr_B, Hirst and warren, I haven't lol'd like that since I can't remember when.

[UglyAmerican]

For a breakdown of the accelerator unit with good photos, check out:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclus ... as-pedals/

 

And speaking of fake news, on my parody car blog I ran this story:

 

Toyota Announces New “Surprise Sport†Performance Brand

Toyota has announced a new performance sub-brand called Surprise Sport. Unlike competitors Mazdaspeed and Nissan’s SE-R, the Toyota has a unique performance feature  sudden, powerful acceleration when drivers aren’t necessarily expecting it.

 

“The new Toyota Camry Surprise Sport brings performance and driving excitement to a new level. Sure, the Mazdaspeed6 is fun to step on the gas and take off. But our car will get your blood going even more, by flooring it when you least expect it,†said PR man Jack Lansing.

 

Ford Advising Toyota on How to Blame Firestone for Gas Pedal Recall

Ford is acting as a consultant for Toyota in devising ways to blame Firestone for Toyota’s current gas pedal sticking predicament, according to sources within both companies.

 

“We have experience with saying why and how it’s Firestone’s fault. Toyota can really benefit from our expertise in this area,†said Ford spokesman Mark Altec.

[warren t claim]

The car in front is a Toyota ('cos the driver couldn't slow down).

[Milford Cubicle]

On the Jeremy Vine show today they broadcast a pretty horrific '911' call, of a Lexus driver phoning to say his car was out of control, moments later the line went dead. All the occupants were killed. Pretty depressing thinking about it, especially as knocking the gear lever into neutral would have saved them.Anyway, what's wrong with a nice cable connecting the accelerator pedal to the throttle assembly?

[FredTransit]

Yeah had a Mk2 transit gas pedal cable snap on me once, it was tricky as I was turning right at some lights. Amazingly I pulled choke out and took it over the lights on the biting point thinking 'this is inconvenient'. I didn't die, and the RAC fixed at the side of the road. That's progress eh?

[Rusty Pelican]

Looks a simple plastic cheaply made jobby , fly by wire , WTF is wrong with a cable operated one , all this electronic bollocks does my bonce in , My Commers throttle pedal is 44 years old and still works fine , modern technology uhh

[pandamonium]

So - Toyota Prius in brake issue shocker?Let me get this straight...The Prius is already scary as you can't hear it coming , but now when you step out in front of it - it can't stop!?Surely the Prius has gone from yuppie trash to the MOST DANGEROUS CAR EVARR?Oh, the irony.

[Spottedlaurel]

I'd venture to suggest that a lot of Toyota owners don't come into the "enthusiast" category who read car stuff and make informed decisions.......

Be careful how you talk about Toyota owners on here (see below, and I'm not the only one). I made a very informed and deliberate choice to get one. Maybe the one I have now isn't typical Toyota fare, but the three I've gone out and bought before (another Camry, Carina E and Starlet) have all done me rather well too.I'd say your comment applies to most people who buy new cars, regardless of brand. Modern cars are so insanely complicated it could easily happen to any make.

[Roc 24v]

Apparently it only affects C1 and 107 with ESP. Which apparently in the UK is only about 60 Citroens. Im guessing Peugeot is about the same. So looks like Toyota have to ride this out themselves

36 C1's, but several thousand 107's as far more came with MMT and ESP.