Laurel BROKEN AGAIN!

[Guest]

So I've been pressing the Laurel into daily use for sometime now.There's always been a bit of a problem with the temperature on it - doesn't quite warm up properly, gets to about a quarter and that's about it. Might go up and down a little bit from that, not a lot though. Rarely it might make it all the way to half. Just sounds like the usual old-boy symptom - change the thermostat. Was planning on doing that when the weather improved a bit.I pulled up today and noticed some weird gurgling water noises coming from the engine bay. From a quick glance it doesn't appear to have lost any water, though this is what my Galant did periodically for a few months, then it threw its water pump.The coolant does look a bit grubby but not absolutely filthy so I was going to change it at some point. I was thinking I need a new water pump, but surely it's alright - I can drive it on all kinds of roads without grief, the temperature stays low.What I'm thinking is perhaps there's an air lock in the system or something like that. Any ideas? Pretty sure the gauge isn't at fault, it does seem to be running cold.

[scooters]

hmmmm.....sounds like a water pump issue to me.I had silimar symntoms on a BMW once - all seemed ok apart from intermittant temp praks almost like an air lock - what it actiually was was the impellor blades of the water pump shearing off (they were plastic - thanks BMW) and blocking the capilliaries. eventually on a very hot day the head cooked - new engine - car scrapped.I had a similar issue on a dolly last year but in this case a rubber grommet had come loose and blocked the collant system I would start by a good flush and if the prob is still there - check the water pump

[Split_Pin]

First off, I'd change the thermostat. I'd also renew the coolant as its sounds old from the description you give. My Astra was running very cold recently and a new thermostat means the needle now sits exactly where it should. You mentioned gurgling noises. Do these sound like they are coming from behind the dash when you rev the engine? Is there any smoke from the exhaust? How does the heater perform? Is there any mayonnaise on the underside of the oil filler cap?

[Volksy]

Could be an airlock, not sure if these have a bleed screw somewhere on the system, normally it's located on the pipes leading to the heater matrix - and/or one at a high point on the engine. Alternativly sometimes it's worth - when you change the coolant - jacking the front of the car up (both sides level obviously) to try and force any air to the highest point - which when jacked up shoul dbe the radiator.Worth a try before you start thinking its doom.

[Ratdat]

Do the stat anyway as they are cheap. I never really know any Datsun or Nissans to have issues with airlocks in the cooling system. I've certainly never had to bleed one but it's probably worth checking on anyway.One warning though... CA's do not tolerate being overheated. It nealy always buggers the head if they overheat so if you have any cooling system worries I'd address it ASAP.Also bear in mind that with CA's, if they have too little coolant in them it can register as low temperate on the guage as the sender if quite high up on the engine. I know it the twin cams in particular, if they suddenly lost their coolant, the guage would initially start to rise and then immeadiately fall again, prompting you to think that whatever the problem was it had gone away, when in fact the only thing that had actually gone away was all the coolant. In the case of DOHC CA's that situation means goodbye engine and I'd warrant a SOHC would be similar.

[Guest]

I've got a thermostat in the boot already, so I can get that sorted fairly quickly.I only heard the noises when I turned the engine off - sounds a bit like you've parked on top of someone's drain whilst they flush the toilet in the house. Comes from the engine bay itself, though difficult to trace exactly where from - you can't see any signs of water going anywhere etc.No smoke from the exhaust, nothing underneath the oil cap, heater performs poorly (can get it to be slightly tepid at best), if you feel the rocker cover after a long run it's never hot enough to burn your hand. Fan will come on eventually if you set all the heater controls to cold and wait for ages, but too cold to make it come on "naturally".One note is that the temperature gauge goes erratic if you let it go past half, but I'm pretty sure that's down to the gauge itself - if you give it the chance to get to half (sit there with it on cold and wait for ages) it'll flick and bounce around all over the place and if you turn the ignition off it'll fly up to the hottest temperature possible, but turn the car on and off again and it'll be fine. No sign of the car actually being hot when it does that, no bubbling up coolant, radiator leaks, steam, rocker cover is still tepid, etc. I am pretty confident the gauge is accurate when it's cold though, as it starts at the coldest point, settles at around a quarter and can go up and down a bit either way.Coolant all seems to be there, bit old-looking as said, not the worst I've seen but looks about due. Any other checks I can do, hose temperatures etc?

[Pete-M]

Is this the mad cab thing that's LPG only?If so, I bet it's related to the LPG. Are you running it with 50% anti-freeze in, because from my experience, that'll help.. Most of the LPG powered Rangies I've had have tended to behave better with a load of antifreeze in, and most gurgled when the coolant levels got low.

[Guest]

It is! That's an interesting point, didn't know you had to do anything different with coolant on an LPG motor. Perhaps it's the LPG system making the noise? I'll get a 50/50 mix going, see if that helps.

[nigel bickle]

I'd say the 'tepid heater' gives it away as low water.Heater is the high point in the system,so if the level drops - its the first to suffer.Tepid suggests some heat-so some water, but not full.Explains the gurgling too - hot water moving around hot/cold areas of the engine. They dont tend to like that for long/often.When tepid turns cold- the level has dropped below the heater-& you've a potential problem.Did this start to happen after you added antifreeze? I ask because it lowers the meniscus of the water- creating a leak where there wasn't one before.As Ed says-sort it quick-even if it means constant topups with a big canister being carried in the boot.

[nigel bickle]

I'd say the 'tepid heater' gives it away as low water.Heater is the high point in the system,so if the level drops - its the first to suffer.Tepid suggests some heat-so some water, but not full.Explains the gurgling too - hot water moving around hot/cold areas of the engine. They dont tend to like that for long/often.When tepid turns cold- the level has dropped below the heater-& you've a potential problem.Did this start to happen after you added antifreeze? I ask because it lowers the meniscus of the water- creating a leak where there wasn't one before.As Ed says-sort it quick-even if it means constant topups with a big canister being carried in the boot.

[Guest]

Nice one Mr Bickle, that seems to ring true with the circumstances. The heater has always been a bit weak but to be fair it was ridiculously cold when I was first using it and I'm certain it would previously get warm enough to clear the screen at least. Now it's not as cold, so it should be doing a bit better you'd have thought.I've not added any antifreeze to date as it didn't need any, but I was going to flush the whole lot once the weather improved. I've bought some whilst I was on my lunch, so I'll change it before I use it to go to work next (probably do the thermostat on the weekend).In the meantime, I'll fill a bottle of water and take it back to the car with me. With it being stood whilst I've been at work I should be able to see if the levels properly and see what's going on. I've checked it a few times on the driveway since I got it (early this month) and it hadn't gone down any, but perhaps it has done since I checked last week. I suspect it hasn't been used as an everyday car for that long and I wouldn't be surprised if it has developed a leak somewhere with me running it down the motorway, etc. Always seem to get a few little issues with cars like this.

[Ratdat]

Pull the heater hoses of of the heater at the bulkhead and flush it through a few times with a hosepipe, doing to both ways. The refit the bottom hose and tighten but just push the top hose on. Fill with water, run until the thermostat opens then pull the upper heater hose partially off so there's a gap at the top where water can come out. Bring the idle up until you have a good bit of water coming out and no air then shove the hose back on and do it up (preferably whilst the revs are still high. Top up the rad again and you should be good. The matrix itself is below the top of the engines water gallery but where the hoses come through the bulkhead is higher IIRC. Usually Nissan water pumps will shove the water round fast enough to purge any air out of those hoses so there is a possibility the pump isn't too happy but you'll soon know if you try to bleed it as described above. The water pump will probably be the same as a Silvia S12 or an M10 Prairie. Although Prairies are FWD, the use the RWD style CA18S with the dizzy off the side of the head by the cambelt rather than off the rear like a Bluey or Stanza.What pete said about LPG is also true I'd guess as LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol but a higher Octane, it would in theory burn a lot cooler.

[Station]

If the thermostat is knackered, it's always open, and therfore it's constantly going through the radiator, cooling the water.

[Rusty Pelican]

Is there a stat fitted at all , symptoms to me sound like there isnt one

[M'coli]

Big lump of cardboard over the front of the radiatior should help bring the temperature up.

[Pete-M]

Another thing to mention is that the heater isn't necessarily the high point of the coolant system, I bet the vaporiser is...

[Guest]

Went to look, it hadn't used any water. The water pump made its presence a bit more obvious this time though, loads of crunching and metallic noises. Needs a new one of those then! Didn't overheat on the way back.Action stations, time to fire up the Nissan Fast system!

[Guest]

And £15 later, one is in the post. Wonder if it's a big job.

[warren t claim]

I would be careful because on the Micra if the water pump siezes then the cambelt shreds and destroys the engine.

[Guest]

It's not going anywhere now, it's just sat in the drive with the similarly useless Galant. Cambelt is also in the post, as that might as well get done now too.URGENT APPEAL: When I get the bits, anyone want to fix it in my drive? I'm serious! Proper paid-up job, not some "beer tokens" setup. I'm just sick of seeing the dead bodies pile up and I'd like it back on the road asap - it's got a load of test on it and the way everything is with my current mechanic it could be yonks before he's free to do it. Come onnnn.

[Albert Ross]

I'm in Doncaster, boat load of tools and a tugboat to cart them around. Also compressor and airline to boot (Das Boot?) I like money. Let me know. References available...... You get the bits, I come do it Simples.

[Guest]

Sounds ideal! I will give you a shout when the parts arrive and we can sort something out.

[Albert Ross]

Top news. I'm at work this Saturday AM, possibly recovering my "new" AX in the afternoon, and may well be free Sunday, or there's the weekend after if you prefer!!

[Ratdat]

You have to remove the cambelt to do the water pump so now is the time to fit a new one. Pulling the cambelt cover also means having to remove the bottom pulley so be prepared for a tight nut on it. An impact wrench is by far the best way if you can get it in there, which being a four pot Laurel, I'd imagine wouldn't be an issue.

 

Here's a pic of the front of a CA without the cam covers on so you can see what your dealing with...

 

[Guest]

Very helpful, cheers! It's quite hard to see anything at the moment, the fan shroud is pretty huge - with that off I think access will be pretty good.Cambelt is in the post along with the water pump (and gasket), the thermostat is in the boot (will check if it has a gasket). Reckon I'll need anything else other than antifreeze?

[Ratdat]

Probably not but go carefull unbolting stuff as the belt covers have little M6 bolts into aluminium which can corrode then snap off if you give them too much welly. Same goes for the water pump bolts too.Another thing to check with regaard to running cool... make sure the viscous fan is working. It should spin freely when the engine is cold.

[CIH]

If it's the same as a Silvia tubby the timing marks are 12 o'clock at the cam pulley and 4 o'clock (ish) crank pulley. I should be able to get the Autodata diagram if needs be.Probably worth doing the other aux drivebelts while it's all apart too, like the p/w steering belt.

[Albert Ross]

Blimey, I remember building CA16s and 18s in a reconditioners in Derby in the 90s..... We had stacks (literally) of scrapyard engines for reconditioning, muat have had about 60 Ca's in a pile ready to recon. I found three CA18ET's one saturday when the boss was out, we hid them and rebuilt them when he went on holiday, kept all the ancillaries, built them up and sold them to the banger boys for good coin.... I also remember the South American cast 13 and 1500 Sunny engines, and the MA10s with the one piece mains cap.... 12mm 12 point head bolts that rot the heads so you can't get them off anyone?? Odd length bolts to crack the water pump casing? Seen them all..... "My mate broke it" was the best excuse we ever heard, about 3 times a week.

[Station]

Action stations, time to fire up the Nissan Fast system!

Who me?

[Guest]

Autoshite legend Albert Ross has now "pimped" my Laurel with a new water pump and thermostat! The cambelt ordered was the wrong one, but the old one isn't in bad nick so it'll do for now. Will sort a new one soon though.The reason for it originally running cold? No thermostat! Water pump has been replaced in the last few years too by the looks of it, which is interesting. Anyway, it doesn't seem to boil up or anything so I'm going to keep an eye on the levels and see what happens (hopefully nothing). Should see a significant improvement in fuel economy too. And a working heater!Still more jobs to do on it, but at least I can continue running it in the meantime. I reckon it hasn't had much done on it for quite some time (bar oil and filter changes), so I'm looking forward to seeing how it drives with a complete exhaust and overhauled ignition system. 8 sodding spark plugs to do though.