The tale of the disappearing Saab 9000 Aero

[kadams1970]

Hi all,

 

I am a long time admirer and browser, but first time poster. But I thought I'd post this as a salutary lesson for anyone considering passing their car onto a forum friend for some work. A couple of years back after forum posts and swapped messages, I decided that I should pass my beloved Saab 9000 Aero on to get some much needed repairs to.

 

But in the end, it looks like I have no car, and if it's still around, it's going to be worth little more than scrap. And the bottom line is that it's really starting to get me down, and I could just do with some practical advice on what to do next...

 

The back story is straightforward. I gave the car to a member of several forums I go on called 'Kyle'. He was a local mechanic who worked for a garage in his area, and from the amount of posts he made here, there and everywhere, seemed like a sound bloke who knows his cars, and who's more than willing to help people whenever he can.

 

I felt assured enough to leave my Aero with him to do some work on - after all, he worked at a proper garage, and seemed to have lots of satisfied customers. So, I left the car with him early in 2008 with a replacement gearbox in the boot, and asked him to put it in.

 

Also, it needed a new windscreen, so - again - I asked him to do it.

 

A few weeks after, he contacts me to say he's having custody problems with his daughters. I say that's fine - but if he was struggling, just to let me know and I'd take the car back and pay for work done. He insisted it was fine, and I had no reason to doubt this, so left him to get on with it.

 

The months passed, and I'd regularly get in touch asking if all was okay... and he's always say that the car was safe, and it would be done soon. I could see the problems he was having as he'd share them on Facebook, so didn't give him too much hassle, but constantly reminded him that if he couldn't do my car, shout me, and I'd take it back off his hands. Then, last summer, he disappeared off Facebook and stopped taking calls.

 

I contacted the garage he was working at, and the manager said he'd not been working there for at least 18 months, and that as he didn't know who the Saab belonged to, he had placed it in storage. But that the garage owner also said that he had financial problems (partially caused by Kyle's disappearance) at the time and hadn't paid his storage bills for some time, so had no idea what state my car was in... but now he knew who I was we'd get in regular contact so I could get my car back. Which he reassured me, he'd be able to do.

 

The garage owner and I did chat a couple more times, but each time he'd not tell me precisely where the car was... but he would call when he got it back. I ascertained that the car was without a screen, under a cover, and stored outdoors. So, a write-off I guess. But now he's not talking to me, and I'm 200 miles away stuck without a clue what's going on, and the situation is REALLY getting me down.

 

Basically, I know in my heart that the car is FUBAR'd. Legally I know I will have to pursue the garage owner if I don't want to count this as a £4000 write-off, as he made no effort to contact me after Kyle disappeared (and all the docs are/were in the glovebox) and legally he should have done this... but if the garage owner is straight and genuinely having problems, I really don't want to do that.

 

Crap isn't it?

 

Any suggestions?

 

My SAAB in better times...

[FredTransit]

Welcome mate, sorry about the the subject of your first post. I was knind of there too, couldn't get hold of the so called mate who had 2 of our vans, one of which was bought brand new in 1986 so a personal friend. It get to the stage I noticed somebody on a forum who lived very near, and after a PM he kindly went and took photos over the fence, which at least set my mind at ease that they still existed. Eventually I sent somebody to get them back. If you can give us a location, maybe somebody nearby will go and make the first in person contact with the garage?

[Father Ted]

I would say report it stolen, as your "contract" for waork to be done was between this Kyle chap and yourself, not the garage - however I can see it getting messy and complicated as the garage no doubt have a separate "contract" between Kyle and themselves.Its all about proving ownership and that the car was taken / kept without your consent. If its still insured I would report it as stolen and try to pursue a claim that way. But hey, i dont really know the law so Im just saying what I would do.

[kadams1970]

Kyle is a member of this forum... would be good to hear his thoughts/K

[FredTransit]

I would say report it stolen, as your "contract" for waork to be done was between this Kyle chap and yourself, not the garage - however I can see it getting messy and complicated as the garage no doubt have a separate "contract" between Kyle and themselves.Its all about proving ownership and that the car was taken / kept without your consent. If its still insured I would report it as stolen and try to pursue a claim that way. But hey, i dont really know the law so Im just saying what I would do.

The problem with that is he handed over the car, it wasn't taken from him, so it's not stolen. Even if it was taken from the person he handed it to, they had it stolen from them, not the original owner. I know, see my post above.

[Cheggers]

It's admirable that you don't want to pursue the garage owner if he's having a hard time, but I suspect this is not the time for sentiment. Four thousand quid is a lot of money to lose in such dubious circumstances. One for Citizens Advice maybe??

[Father Ted]

I would say report it stolen, as your "contract" for waork to be done was between this Kyle chap and yourself, not the garage.

The problem with that is he handed over the car, it wasn't taken from him, so it's not stolen.

Surely though property that someone refuses to give back for whatever reason become stolen property if you request its return, regardless of whether it was handed over freely (in this case for work to be done) or taken by other means. What would worry me is the fact the documents were left in the car.

[Pillock]

Kyle is a member of this forum... would be good to hear his thoughts/K

Is it the same Kyle?If it does happen to be the same Kyle then it's a bit suspect that this post just happens to be made here, where he's a member. If it's not the same Kyle (an uncommon, but not unique name) then I'd suggest popping into a police station and explaining that you handed it over willingly but now it's in an unknown place and you can't get it back, see if they think there's a case for them.Also, you can phone the DVLA to see if you're still the registered owner. They won't give you the name if it's not you, but they will confirm over the phone if matches on their computer. That's how I found I no longer owned a car!

[Cavcraft]

Yeah, I think for the sake of clarity, and to clear any innocent part of alleged wrong doing, the person in question shoud be named 'fully'.Is this the only forum this has been mentioned on as a matter of interest?

[kadams1970]

Sorry yes, of course I have posted this in my own forum (AROnline) and Macdroitwich. I could post a name and address, just wasn't sure this was within the forum rules.../K

[FredTransit]

I would say report it stolen, as your "contract" for waork to be done was between this Kyle chap and yourself, not the garage.

The problem with that is he handed over the car, it wasn't taken from him, so it's not stolen.

Surely though property that someone refuses to give back for whatever reason become stolen property if you request its return, regardless of whether it was handed over freely (in this case for work to be done) or taken by other means. What would worry me is the fact the documents were left in the car.

if you look at my post above, that's what I was told, also I was told it's a civil matter. The thing is, it's too complicated for the average busy copper, and at the same time it's not the crime of the century so not of huge interest to them. It's a sad fact, but that's the way it is.If I remember right, "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and thief and steal shall be construed accordingly."

[Pillock]

Sorry yes, of course I have posted this in my own forum (AROnline) and Macdroitwich. I could post a name and address, just wasn't sure this was within the forum rules.../K

Maybe just a name and rough area, it would be a bit strong to give out his house address! Are you positive it's the same Kyle?(Edit: I didn't really read it properly the first time, saw someone post "Kyle is registered on here" and didn't twig it was you, thought it was just someone noticing the username)

[Guest Kyle]

deleted

[FredTransit]

Well fair play to you, you have said more on this matter than the apology for a man who had my vans. If you do finish the job you can't be fairer than that. Two sides to every story eh?

[Guest Kyle]

deleted

[kadams1970]

Kyle,While didn't you tell me? Why didn't you take my calls? Why did you close off all avenues of communication? Blocked me on Facebook? Why?Sorry if I got your back-up, and I know you've got stuff going on, but it's really gone on long enough, I dropped the car with you in January 2008. Let me know exactly where the car is, please, we'll get it out of there, and I'll trailer it home./K

[warren t claim]

Maybe this thread should be locked and further communication between the two parties concerned should be via PM's?

[kadams1970]

I was hoping not.I'm open to advice from people on the forum, and it's a healthy conversation :)And I think a salutary lesson... /K

[Mr Lobster]

Probably best that the two of you sort the particular issue between yourselves tbh but I hope you can resolve it.Anyway, as far as the law stands with stolen cars - if you give someone possesion even temporarily of your car and they do not return it, the Police will not consider it as stolen. I've been through this several times at work - we rent a car to someone, they don't return it. Getting Police to consider it stolen is very difficult.

[kadams1970]

Exactly, and that's why I never reported it stolen. To be honest, I'm just glad that I've made contact with Kyle again, so hopefully some resolution can now come of this.I certainly won't air this again here - as doing it the once had the desired effect. However, if communication breaks down again, I hope you all won't mind if I prod in here?Point is - the guy went completely silent on me, and that's always a worry. Even a single text message or something saying 'I'm busy - will get back' or something like that would have put my mind at rest.So, again, sorry to everyone on here for this.I'm sure my subsequent posts will be far more constructive and dare I say, interesting? :)/K

[shite_meister]

I agree that perhaps this is really a private matter.I would suggest though that whilst Kyle's response is admirable and sometimes more important things get in the way of life as we've learnt and that Kyle is not only apologetic but prepared to rectify the situation Keith has requested the vehicle back so perhaps the owner's wishes should be respected which is also understandable after two years.

[UglyAmerican]

Frustration, money, and difficult times aside --Hopefully we'll be able to chalk this up as an Autoshite success story. If it gets Keith back his Saab and Kyle a bit of weight off his shoulders, that's really great.

[ChinaTom]

How about editing the posts that contain the private details of what clearly is a tragic state of affairs that really ought not to be in the public domain hereonafter if wounds are to be healed properly. Clarity achieved eh?I feel for the pair of you and think that comments made from now on, however positive and made in good faith may have detrimental effect on a fragile situation.Best of luck to you both.

[Station]

Glad to see it getting sorted ... hopefully.

[scruff]

Yup - and hopefully a weight off both of your respective shoulders.

[kadams1970]

Not heard anything else mind... /K

[Minimad5]

Well i hope this gets resolvedNo doubt if any of us offered help with the saab you would refuseWhich i guess is fair.But things like this kind of scare me as i am a kind person who likes to do things like repair friends and families cars for freeI have even repaired some random peoples cars for very cheap tooIts just sad and scary at the same time that what ever the reasons behind what ever has happenedTrust with others and self confidence in others can be affected tooI hope both sides get the matter resolved in a peaceful and succesful manner.Hope to hear a good story from both sides

[kadams1970]

 

The good news is that it's coming back together nicely now.

 

Sorry I've been remiss at updating this post, but it seems that there was a bit of unpleasantness in its aftermath, but ultimately, Kyle played the gent and at least showed me where it was.

 

From there, I got it home, fixed the screen surround, slapped in a new screen, and MoT'd it shortly afterwards.

 

Its progress can be followed here:

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/categor ... saab-aero/

 

But the 9000 is well on the way to recovery now, thank goodness. Thanks all for your help and encouragement - it's been emotional!

[Torsten2001]

Good to see you have the car back! Good work, it's beautiful!

[RedSparrow]

Glad you got the car back eventually. Must be a relief after all the stress.