XM Fettling - Bubble Trouble

[wesacosa]

that's definitely true. As I have sat and let the steam die down from my ears I realised what I could have done is put the nut on, and the screw in with some tight mole grips, the reverse of how I got the old one off. yes it would have mangled the end of the stud but after this there is no fecking way I am going to take it off ever again! And no I couldn't get it to exactly 10Nm but at least I could have had a better guess.  Sadly its all gunked up with threadlock now so its going to be a pain to get it out and cleaned up.  Might have to see if i can still buy a stud from Citroen but I am not sure how likely that is

[wesacosa]

Well it's been a bit quiet on the XM since my mojo went.  However I haven't totally left it alone. In between working on the Panda and getting the Bini ready for sale I have been slowly starting to put the XM back together.  I got the stud on the tensioner on as best I could.  I hope it's good enough

Belt went on ok and barred it over many times and it hits its marks each time

Worst part of reassembly was the mount.  It had been off the front mount so long it had sagged on its other mounts so would not line up (its a heavy old lump canted back at 30 degrees) . in the end had to ask @PrinceRupert to come around and whilst I levered the engine up and down with a jack handle he pushed and pulled it onto the mount. even then it took about an hour but finally got it on.  

Anyway the engine is now back together, plumbed in and wired up. I should have probably tried starting it before I put it back together but I didn't

Now I am too scared to try and start it as its so long since I am convinced I have forgotten to put something back or tighten it 😨🤣

I have also somehow managed to lose the wheel nuts🤦🏼

Also since I last report on here MOT has expired and ULEZ has come

[wesacosa]

I decided I would put off starting it again today.  I had some problems yesterday with the alarm not resetting after battery was reconnected so managed to sort that today.  The auxiliary belt tensioner needed rechecking after 4 revolutions. I have barred the engine over so many times I couldn't really be bothered to do it again so I decided I would not punch in the immobilizer code and just crank it in a few small bursts and recheck tension.  I did one small flick of the key to check the battery was ok , then went to crank again, got about one revolution and this happened

not quite sure how as the immobiliser was not deactivated . Initial impressions are the horrible banging and clonking noises from the LHM pump area have gone, and engine sounded ok for the minute I ran it.  Alternator belt still needs tensioning properly and not sure there isn't a bit of bearing noise from the alternator.  Seems to be a lot of bubbles in the pipe from fuel filter to pump.  Haven't had a DERV before so don't know if that expected. I did change the fuel filter and the pipe from the priming bulb to the filter housing during this work

Next step is to bleed the coolant and check for leaks......

 

 

 

[beko1987]

Sounds pretty good from here! Dieselly to me! The key is what it does under load, does the clatter die off as the revs rise? 

You'll be amazed at the difference if what you've removed was shagged out. My Xsara felt oddly silent when I did its axillary belt pulleys and the camshaft pulley, was almost worrying 😂

[wesacosa]

well the aux belt was definitely shagged out

[wesacosa]

Time for an XM update....

First job after the restart was to run for a bit with just deionised water to check for leaks and flush out any remaining OAT coolant and then fill up with a nice retro blue antifreeze!!  

Haynes manual top tip is to create a nice header tank from a water bottle during filling and then leave in place and half full during bleeding. 

This worked perfectly on the deionised water fill, you can sit in the car and watch the bubbles as you rev the engine. It was working fine on the second fill with the antifreeze too, until the plastic got too warm , collapsed and chucked half a litre of antifreeze all over my engine 🤦🏼

After that I bled all the brakes after my previous LHM change and then went for my first ever spin around the block. Sadly it became apparent after about 100 yards that all was not well.  The car was bucking around all over the place and reacting very badly to bumps. I once moved a colleagues Datsun Stanza with totally shot dampers and this felt similar.  Concensus from the XM forums were either shot spheres or suspension stuck in hard mode, which apparently can happen due to electrical glitches or incorrect depressurisation of the hydraulic system before starting work on the hydraulics.  A quick bounce test of the car showed no suspension movement

https://youtu.be/HtoIKKW4DNk

(warning, video contains significant Lucas pumped cold start Diesel clatter and a bad work from home hair cut)

a quck visual of the rear and underside spheres confirmed they had seen better days, and were embossed with the Citroen logo so could well be original

being a late hydroactive 2 car there are 8 spheres in total (4 corners, 2 center hydroactive, 1 accumulator and 1 anti sink).  I had already done the accumulator and decided to leave the anti sink so just the 6 to buy

not nice weather to be under a car, and luckily I inspected my old ramps before going under

I am calling them fecked !!

That's better !!

Sphere change is actually not too bad if you have the right tool.  The blue one was good for all but the rear center sphere, but because that sphere is buried up under the exhaust you cant get access for the long handle without dropping the exhaust.  the smaller black sphere tool mean you could get at it just by removing the exhaust heatshield and spare wheel holder

Speaking of spare wheel holders I think its seen better days 😂

nice shiney new spheres

and nice bouncy bouncy action video

https://youtu.be/QoAxzPEpCcI

I still not happy with the height. It seems to sometimes drop on start up, sometimes sit high. But its been stood 7 years so perhaps just needs to be used and have all the linkages start moving again.

Next jobs

ABS light on

Suspension light doesn't come on

Test drive to check for no issues after cambelt and coolant work

present for MOT 😳

 

 

[beko1987]

Plusgas the front and rear height corrector, then many citrobatics and as you say, throw it down some windy B roads very fast a bit. 

Had the rear seize up on my xantia and it wasn't fun. Worse at night as you blind everyone if its got the arse down! Reasonably* simple* job to remove, strip and clean and reassemble. I imagine once you've got it off running every metal part over a wire wheel and just reassembling would fix 73% of all the issues they'll ever have. 

I used to be able to move the height lever a bit then when the car started to move up or down, put it back and it would sort of stay there then for a while. Got home from work a few times. 

Whilst it's up on stands is a good way to check. Nothing heightens the desire to fill ones pants more than manually moving the height corrector lever the 3mm it actually moves and having the entire belly of the car creep closer as you lay on the floor under it😕 (Mark the positions of the bars going to the corrector too before you start but it's reasonably simple but very fiddly to set it manually) 

[wesacosa]

I did throw some grease on the bits of the height corrector and linkages I could recognise and reach with the car on ramps on low. but perhaps needs more

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, wesacosa said:

I did throw some grease on the bits of the height corrector and linkages I could recognise and reach with the car on ramps on low. but perhaps needs more

A few doses of arm-under-on-high free'd mine up eventually but I'd class it as a bodge rather than a fix... 

Would probably see you through winter though as laying on one's back in the warmer spring sounds much more favourable! 

[RobT]

Thanks for the update.  I was considering buying an XM, but not sure I will now...

Hope all goes well with the fixages. 

[wesacosa]

7 hours ago, RobT said:

Thanks for the update.  I was considering buying an XM, but not sure I will now...

Hope all goes well with the fixages. 

I am not the most patient mechanic and mine was off the road for 7 years so don't let me put you off 😂

[wesacosa]

7 hours ago, RobT said:

Thanks for the update.  I was considering buying an XM, but not sure I will now...

Hope all goes well with the fixages. 

I see from your profile you are in SE London.  If you are anywhere near Eltham you are more than welcome to pop around and have a nosy at the car to see for yourself what you make of XMs....

[beko1987]

Having changed spheres on my xm and all the springs on a Meriva A the sphere job was far simpler 😅

Granted it all falls down when pipes or unions start going south but I guess the same would be true of hidden leaky brake or fuel lines on any other car. 

 

[RobT]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:07 AM, wesacosa said:

I see from your profile you are in SE London.  If you are anywhere near Eltham you are more than welcome to pop around and have a nosy at the car to see for yourself what you make of XMs....

Sounds good, thanks.  I'm not too far away in Beckenham.  Maybe in January?  I'll drop you a message.

[wesacosa]

ok cool.  If all goes to plan it might even be road legal by then

[wesacosa]

Mixed day today on the XM

I had noticed that since I bled the front brakes one side was no working,  the cable seemed to have no tension. Luckily it was an easy fix, well aside from access it was easy.  There is an equaliser for the cables buried up in the transmission tunnel. When I bled the front brakes the bleed nipple is tucked under the handbrake cable so its much easier to gain access for your bleeding tube by unhooking the cable, but if you are not careful the other end of the inner cable can unhook from the equaliser.  It was a hell of a tight squeeze with just the front up on stands and the suspension set to low (as it should always be before you venture underneath a Hydropneumatic Citroen)  especially if you are not sure what you are looking for, but once you get it you just release the inner cable at the calliper end, push it back in place on the equaliser then hook it back on the calliper. Handbrake is now fully operational

Now for the not so good news.  The ABS light has been on since I bought the car. Apparently the lack of blinking means a bigger fault than just a sensor as it not even going into its start-up diagnostic sequence.  Previous investigation work had shown relay was sound (usually first port of call on these due to the silly location) dangling on its socket in the void between front slam panel and battery tray

The relay is activated by the ECU pulling the relay switching circuit to earth and energising the high voltage side which in turn powers up the ABS circuit and extinguishes the lamp

Grounding the pin manually with a jumper cables activates the relay,  and sends power to the appropriate pins on the ECU connector.   The two earth pins on the ECU connector are also sound. The relay socket has continuity to the pin which switches to earth, and manually jumping the ECU earth pin to chassis ground makes the relay operate.   I think I have tested enough now to confirm the ECU itself as the source of the fault

In addition I tested the resistance of the ABS sensors whilst the ECU plug was disconnected.  The two rears seem ok I think

The two fronts do not

Feeling a little bit downhearted as I thought I was getting close, but now I need to try and source two abs sensor (both of the current one have sheared bolts for good measure) and an ABS ECU

 

 

[lesapandre]

I have just been out on my bike. Not sure where you are but bbbbbrrrrr it's cold here in London now. So keep safe if outside.

I'm often in France so if you ever need any rare parts let me know - hope that adds a minute  bit of cheer.

My local garage is a Citroen specialist so I can always ask them too.

I'm not there at the moment because of the current situation.

[wesacosa]

20 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

I have just been out on my bike. Not sure where you are but bbbbbrrrrr it's cold here in London now. So keep safe if outside.

I'm often in France so if you ever need any rare parts let me know - hope that adds a minute  bit of cheer.

My local garage is a Citroen specialist so I can always ask them too.

I'm not there at the moment because of the current situation.

thanks. I need to investigate how unobtanium the ABS sensors are. From what I read so far they are less so than the mk1 XMs.    As for the ECU , there is a suggestion that the Xantia ones can be used temporarily (ie for the MOT) which are easier to source so might buy me some time whilst I try and track down an XM one

[Fumbler]

47 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

thanks. I need to investigate how unobtanium the ABS sensors are. From what I read so far they are less so than the mk1 XMs.    As for the ECU , there is a suggestion that the Xantia ones can be used temporarily (ie for the MOT) which are easier to source so might buy me some time whilst I try and track down an XM one

I'm heading up to Chevronics tomorrow and can ask if they know of anything/have anything in stock if you'd like me to.

[wesacosa]

thanks.  Yeah would be good to get their options if you are able to.  Its a 97 XM with the Teves ABS.   Don't worry if you don't get chance though

[wesacosa]

just seen the price on Chevronics website, £100-£200 per sensor depending on which I need 😨

[Fumbler]

3 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

just seen the price on Chevronics website, £100-£200 per sensor depending on which I need 😨

Yeah, I was going to say "brace yourself" for the prices!

[High Jetter]

6 hours ago, lesapandre said:

I have just been out on my bike. Not sure where you are but bbbbbrrrrr it's cold here in London now. So keep safe if outside.

I'm often in France so if you ever need any rare parts let me know - hope that adds a minute  bit of cheer.

My local garage is a Citroen specialist so I can always ask them too.

I'm not there at the moment because of the current situation.

That looks like a proper garage. Built in late 50s?

[lesapandre]

Yea I think so  - but there has a garage there a long time - Olivier who owned it inherited from his father.

[Fumbler]

18 hours ago, wesacosa said:

thanks.  Yeah would be good to get their options if you are able to.  Its a 97 XM with the Teves ABS.   Don't worry if you don't get chance though

Chevronics say they have nothing brake related at all, but have passed on details of a supplier of theirs:

BBA Reman (01634 687222)

 

[wesacosa]

thanks for checking !

I am hoping I have a lead on the bits I need from club-XM but good to have a potential alternative

 

[wesacosa]

Hmm,  first spin around the block didn't go so well

https://youtu.be/FRbXJiB5Hkw

[wesacosa]

Can't seem to get to the bottom of smoking/vapour from the back of the engine. I not even sure if its oil or coolant, but given the location oil seems more likely

It does seem to be hot end/turbo related though as just idling does not seem to cause the smoke but a short spin around the block does, so I assume it's burning off something that needs the turbo spooling to give it some heat. There was definitely a leak from the cam cover gasket which I have changed but smoke remains. Not sure if it's just residual.  I tried cleaning as best I could with aerosol degreaser and a hose pipe but with the engine canted backwards over 30 deg its impossible to reach everywhere, and from underneath access/line of site above the turbo is impossible too

Without MOT its impossible to take it for a drive long enough to see if it continues or burns away so the only option left is to book for an MOT even though I am not sure its 100% ready.  Although at least a fail would help me focus on critical next steps . So tomorrow is the big day

Place your bets now. Will I expire in a cloud of

A ) Smoke

B ) Steam

or C ) both

 

[rob88h]

4 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

A ) Smoke

Don’t forget to phone a friend if ask the audience doesn’t help the situation! They normally come out in a big truck with flashy lights 😜

In all seriousness, good luck though. Do you think turbo centre bearing oil feed could be the culprit?

[wesacosa]

19 minutes ago, rob88h said:

Don’t forget to phone a friend if ask the audience doesn’t help the situation! They normally come out in a big truck with flashy lights 😜

In all seriousness, good luck though. Do you think turbo centre bearing oil feed could be the culprit?

I would have expected it to be spraying oil under pressure and I don't see huge evidence of splatter, but I guess it could possibly be.  Hope not as it looks like a fecker to get at