Triumph - That was a year that was..

[Bfg]

Before I reassembled the wiper motor I thought to clean out the back corner of the bulkhead shelf, which is usually inaccessible because of the wiper motor being in the way. It all went well, but then I noted some bloom ..further forward, and so added a little paint over that to smooth things off again .. unfortunately (or whatever word you might imagine I exclaimed !) that last patch ended up looking like this . . .

 

^ Not much I could do about it in the cold and damp, so I've left it for another day.  I want to flatten and redo the rest of these shelves anyway which show hand-painting brush marks. 

^ moving onwards and, hopefully this time, forwards.. the component parts were cleaned and tarted up ready for reassembly.

The armature, worm drive end, was reassembled into the gearbox and the field-winding carefully positioned over the armature (sans brushes). 

 

  

The brush arms were then reassembled, and the fibreboard fitted (behind the new red wire) which helps prevent the arms coming apart while the tensioning spring is fitted (blue arrow) ..or should that spring break at any time.  It's fiddly holding the two insulation T-eyes in place and then hooking the spring into each hole, but it went easily enough thanks to a decent pair of needle nose pliers inherited from my father.  Of course one needs to be careful that the spring goes right through each hole rather than just hooking on.

  

^ alternative views. The first hopefully clarifies my point about the fibreboard holding the end of the brush arms onto their contacts (which I'd smeared with Vaseline), and the second showing the brushes sitting against the now cleaner commutator.   Note the red wire turns quite tightly to clear the end cap ..yet to be fitted but which projects further down than the terminal connectors. The wire's tail-end leads through a hole in the motor's other end, which is cast as part of the gearbox casing.   Don't forget to refit the earth connector, which fits under one of the end cap's long screws (just seen in the piccies below)

^ the end of the drive-cable was refitted, under the crankshaft's little end pin. before the (now pretty) gearbox top cover could be refitted. The red wire was cut to length and its tail-end soldered to the (park mechanism's) connector on the cap.   I checked the wiper motor operated and the gearbox functioned correctly before refitting it. 

Pushing the drive-cable back into its outer sleeve (undisturbed still on the car) was sticky-finger messy from the copious amounts of moly-lithium grease I wiped into the drive-cable's spiral winding ..but I like lots of fresh slippery grease in there !

 

^ all back together again.  Shame about the paint on this bulkhead, but all in all it is looking prettier and now works.

As I said above ; it seems slow when checked I'd reassembled it straight, but subsequent to a new connector and a new earth (at the switch) its now OK and seemingly good to go.  Checking and re-lubricating the wiper motor was on my job list, so another item ticked off 

I bid you a warm and comfortable evening,

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

Having no horse and hounds, and not being an advocate of blood sports anyway - I've instead been having my own chase... 

Aren't intermittent electrical faults fun to track down !   Katie's  indicator warning light sometimes  continues to flash when the indicators are cancelled, particularly when the engine is running faster than tick-over. Twisting right handed upside down, under the steering wheel, by torch light simply adds sport to the hunt.

^ And to add a touch of Christmas festive ambience to the task I'm using a candle's warmth to help set liquid-electrical-tape insulation. 

Classic-FM  radio station, without a commercial advert all day, has been wonderful. 

Bidding you a good'n

Happy Christmas

Pete

[Dobloseven]

Merry Christmas, Pete. This has been one of my favourite threads.An informative, often amusing, sometimes heart warming story of triumph(sorry!) over adversity. What next, I wonder? 

[Bfg]

Merry Christmas DS.. Thanks .. it is and has been a Triumph, but as you suggest the story doesn't just end. The wipers not working and the indicator warning light flashing when it shouldn't are just inevitable teething problems of recommissioning an old car.  The wipers appear to now be sorted but the real test is when it pees down. Indicator warning light fault ..well who knows !  

Katie  still suffers somewhat-annoying vibration around 65mph, so yet I need to track that down. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have the car up on stands again ..for me to check every nut and bolt is tight in the drive and half-shafts. I'm only human and it's quite easy to have missed tightening one.  And then sometime soon I need to get a mig-welding gas valve (disposable bottle type) so that I can get on and make a towing bracket.  The carbs need to be swapped out for the ones I had rebuilt, and the rear brakes shoes need to be replaced and those drums swapped out for the Alfin aluminium ones ..which again might be better balanced.  I could go on but the list would become tiresome. 

My mate Chris is coming up from Winchester on Tuesday, for a couple of days, and so I'd like the car ready for his visit. Weather forecast is good for Thursday and so if he's still around then we may drive across to Framlingham Castle for a cuppa coffee or something.  I've also volunteered him to help me get the old Sunbeam S8 started and around from my storage container to my home.  I've not used that in over a year, or is that two ?  And then of course I have a boat to get ready to plonk in the water ..after I work around a survey for its insurance.  With those and the trailer - my job list is longer than the yellow brick road.  Still, that why we have retirements - to do the jobs which we never finished when we were in paid-employment.!

Catch you later,

Pete

 

[Bfg]

Yesterday I'd pulled out the steering column switches and decided the wires were all too tightly squeezing back into the aluminium shroud. The wires' insulation is hardened and in places cracked so after straightening out the suspected-to-be-the-guilty-party (.. the indicator wires into the back of the switch) and a good brushing clean with carb cleaner & wiping dry with clean tissue - I coated them in liquid electrical tape.  

^ drying that insulating / plastic coating with the warmth of a candle on Christmas day.

Regarding the too tight shroud (for the number and routing of wires)... Today I pulled the steering wheel and eased the steering column outer sleeve so that I could turn it for access to easing out the wire's through-routing. . .

  

^ When going through the wiring earlier in the year, I'd already eased a bit of the cowling away (first photo, red arrow) but I decided today that it was still far too tight, and unnecessarily so, as the switches are hidden under a plastic cowling anyway.  2nd photo shows how much further I've now taken it.  This then gives ample room for the overdrive switch' wires (..which happens to be the switch I'm now using for the headlamps main / dip beam) as well as the wires for the indicators.   I similarly opened up the orifice underneath this cowl ..where the bundle of wires come out before they head forward under the dashboard.

Pulling all the wires out was a faff..  but all-in-all I think useful - as I don't like vehicle wiring to be unnecessarily pinched together, especially through places where there's no room for anti-chafe grommets. 

Job done and all put together again, wires reconnected and checked to work correctly etc..

 

^ Test drive on a pleasantly dry & mild Boxing Day afternoon suggests that the issue I had, with the indicator-warning-light continuing to flash when turned off - has, for the time being at least, gone away.

The likely fault was that the indicator relay was inadvertently being earthed ..other than when switched.  And that would have been the wire from the relay to the switch - perhaps only-just (hence its flickering) shorting out against the pressure die-cast switch body or perhaps even the aluminium steering column shroud. It certainly wasn't obvious to see but then possibly the electrical fault was via tracking across dirt particles.?  

Either way, it now works as it should (one flash extra after the indicator switch is turned off), as do the windscreen wipers, all the lights and horn, etc.  Success.  

Bidding you a good evening and a pleasant holiday.

Pete

 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

may i suggest one of those paint pens that seem popular these days so you can mark your nuts and bolts as you check for tightness

[Bfg]

Thanks NTB -  good point

I used to use a spot of Humbrol model paint on important fastenings.  Don't know why I didn't this time ..my working practices musta got slack with old age - so thanks for the reminder.   I'd better pull my socks up (..as they used to say when people used to wear long socks) or I'll face being fired  ...And then where would I be ?  ..not being un-paid to crawl under a mud splatted car in the cold, damp and semi-dark. I cannot imagine how I'd live without the hard corner of a paving slab poking into the back of my shoulder for fun ! ? 

 

 

[Bfg]

Tuesday  my old college buddy, Chris, came up from Winchester to visit me for a couple of days.  Of course he was late getting up here ..blaming heavy traffic around the M25 and up the A12 - which we all know is a preposterous excuse.  Anyway we didn't do much, save going out for supper, to the Sorrel Horse, and then back home to watch Appoloosa  ..along with enjoying a decent bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon. 

But he wasn't going to get away without doing some jobs, so on Wednesday morning, correct to forecast of rain all day, I enlisted his help with one of my old bikes, from the storage container so that I might ride it home. . .

^ let me introduce to you my dear old Sunbeam S8'Nudge ' (1953) and formerly my daily rider.  But due to circumstances, she was last used at the beginning of December 2021.  The tyres were mostly deflated, the petrol stale and the battery flat ..but after a few priming kicks she started for me.  Chris, seen above, is a motorcyclist too - but without 'the knack', which comes with familiarity of the type, he struggled.   

I rode the bike back the five or so miles back home with Chris following up in my Chrysler.  Man .. did I enjoy that ride ..despite the light drizzle, it was fun.  The plan is to use her again as my 'daily ride' ..mostly for just popping out around town.  

Mature cheddar with onions and black pepper on wholegrain toast thereafter followed, and then off to the marina - because Chris likes to see what progress I have, or haven't made, in recommissioning the boat.  

^ looking distinctly boat-project-neglected in the dull wet weather, Chris was kind enough to appreciate the fresh anti-fouling.  On board we conversed over what I might best do with her dull teak bulkheads.  He's suggesting a sheet covering of shower-thickness Formica as an easy-to-wipe-clean surface,  but I suspect that would be whole lot of work (templating and careful cutting and then edge trimming) as well as expensive.  So I'm still in favour of just slapping a coat of paint on them.  We'll see..

I've next to prepare Barbara-B  for a survey ..for sake of in-the-water insurance.  But as I've made so many modifications from standard - I fear that may not be so easy, unless I can find an inspector with a sound understanding of engineering materials.  Hey ho, I'm sure we'll muddle through.

In the meantime . . .

^ I thought it prudent to totally remove the small solid-fuel (smokeless-coal) burner I'd designed and made ..simply to avoid a lengthy conversation about it &/or its installation's safety standards - which I've exceeded but are primarily for inland-waterway boats (as I cannot find any specific regulations regarding such a stove on a sailing catamaran).

Another concern was the boat's old cooker, which doesn't have thermal couples to turn off the gas ..should the flame blow out.  The cooker is perfectly serviceable, but donkey's years old, and after a visit for advice from Simon in Fox's Chandlery about retrofitting gas-cut-off valves.  I suspect I'll have to bite the bullet and replace it.

Moving on, to a coffee shop, and then home for a curry supper and film watching. The latter Chris chose was the classic Stanley Kubrick's - 2001 A Space Odyssey  ..which in turn was followed by a late-night discussion over brandy, regarding whether Hal (the computer) was sentient or else a programmed "intelligence" ?, whether the mistake was actually a mistake or deliberate ?, what were its motives for murder ?, and the difference between instinctive nature and learned programming or sociology.?   Why do we go there at that time of night ! ?

 

Yesterday, on Thursday afternoon, after an English breakfast and Chris heading off, back down south, I took Katie  out in the, again correctly forecast, fabulous mild and sunny weather.  We again drove across to Framlingham castle, not least because they were open and had a coffee shop.  Katie didn't mind about either, but I did !

 

^ It was a good drive, and the first countryside-outing in the car since fitting her new cv-jointed half-shafts.  After being diverted.. TomTom found us some nice little lanes to wind   wade our way through !

^ there's always a king's welcome at Framlingham.  I'd bet he's a stone faced poker player  

 

^ There was a darned cool breeze up on those battlements. Thankfully I don't wear a kilt.  Still the countryside view is nice.

 

^ And as always I came away cleverer than when I arrived. 

^ One of the never-mentioned realities of castles is that their very high walls, without windows, make for very long shadows within. This photo taken at 3:05pm ..on a bright and sunny day, and as you can see - it barely illustrates what it must have been like to live within those thick cold walls - throughout the long winter months. 

^ driving home before 5pm and it was really too dark for my camera to record much more than an abstract image.

Thankfully Katie's indicator warning light is now behaving itself, and Katie 's H4 headlamps are good and bright, as indeed now are all the LED side lights and indicators.

The last Thursday of each month is (one of) the TR Register's East Saxon's group meetings, which was usually held at The Alma, Copford, near Colchester, but last night we tried another nearby pub/restaurant - The Cricketers, Spring Lane, Fordham Heath, Colchester CO3 9TG.   Although we had just three TR's ..all TR4/4A's including Katie - the turn out of members was a good number.  Things are new and so perhaps many of us were guilty of not circulating as much as we might, I think we all had a pleasant evening.  I treated myself to a spiral of Cumberland sausage on a bed of mash potato, with which I specifically ordered fried onion with the gravy.. and it was deliciously wholesome, and pretty good pub value at under £13. 

Rich C-R very kindly found and passed onto me from fellow club member Leda - a TR4/ 4A/5 boot luggage rack ..which I'd been wanting for Katie,  specifically to stow my removable half-section of Surrey roof on.  I designed and made it to fit inside the car, on the shelf behind the seats, or else within the boot - but as & when I go away for the weekend or longer - then I'll want those more convenient places for luggage.  Aside from being the only Christmas present i got, it was by far the best !  Thanks Rixh, and a very BIG THANK YOU to Leda. It's just what I wanted.

My next club meeting is with the TSSC Suffolk group, which meet on the first Tuesday of each month at the Sorrel horse, Barham, IP6 0PG, on the 3rd January. 

Hopefully we will have nice weather for that too..

Pete

 

[Bfg]

Suffolk Polytunnel News -  Stop-Press Friday afternoon ~ Greetings To All, and a Triumphant New Year..  

Time has flown by - It seems as if 2022 was just last week. 

 

      

^ Up in the air again.  Following a conversation with Colin Wake - good man, and AO of the TSSC Suffolk group, who meet at the Sorrel Horse, Barham, on the first Tuesday of each month.  He - in reply to my asking about Katies  brakes binding in reverse, and also still a clonk when I pull away (sometimes) ..despite new CV jointed half shafts now being fitted - he wondered if the rear brake shoes had possibly been fitted the wrong way around.?  

 

 

^ I looked it up in the Triumph TR4/4A workshop manual ..as my experience of brake-shoes on motorcycles was that they couldn't be fitted a wrong way around ..and I found that if replacement brake-shoes had the hole for the handbrake lever (see detail at top of the illustration) in each shoe - then such an error could easily happen.   Worth watching out for, especially if someone has at any time mixed and mis-matched them.

I also checked back to the photographs (second photo above) I'd taken when I un-seized the handbrake adjusters < here >.   I hadn't removed removed the brake shoes at that time, but the brake shoes had been fitted the correct way around by the prior owner. 

Nevertheless, I'd bought new brake shoes - Thanks again to Rich C-R who has helped me out so many times with spares and advice which I wanted to fit. And I wanted to swap the cast-iron brake drums for the aluminium finned Alfin types I'd bought via the classified section of the TR forum ..a long while ago. . .

 

^ the primary reason for wanting to swap these, was not because I required better brake cooling, but because I hoped the Alfin type (although pre-owned) would be better balanced.  I'd noted this issue with a brand new motorcycle rear-brake drum, whose cast iron rim and case were surprisingly off true ..and so couldn't possibly have been in balance when spinning. 

Of course even if true and balance when new, things can change over xx number of years, and the detail photo above shows how the rim of these old drums is obviously not round. Most likely it had rusted (unevenly) and been cleaned off, possibly many times over the years.  With a lathe it would be easy to true up again, but I don't have one. 

 

^ Aside from the shoe's linings being half worn, there's nothing obviously wrong here. Their wear is good & even - so the sliding adjuster has worked well enough.  The brake shoes retaining clips are also in place.        ^^ New shoes versus the old. Note - although these are not top-brand shoes, the square holes for the handbrake lever (top left) is only on the one shoe, and so neither old nor new shoes could have be assembled the wrong way around.  Note also the orientation of the springs and how they hook onto the shoes differently top and bottom.

 

^ the slave cylinder has to be free to slide in its slot - so as the brake-shoes wear, the cylinder remains central.  I'm using an old kitchen knife to work a smear of moly-lithium grease inbetween the back-plate and the slave cylinder. I did this all around the cylinder, on both sides of the back-plate. In the second photo you can see a slot (a hollow) cast into the mating face of the slave cylinder which allows grease to be worked in. 

Naturally grease should not be used in excess - for fear of it ending up on the friction surface of the brake shoes or on the inside face of the drum. 

Reassembling brake shoes, and getting their springs on - can be darned fiddly (annoying) and something I used to have difficulties with ..so to those who know well how to do it - please excuse my illustrating to the less experienced how I proceed . . .

 

^ Firstly, with clean hands so you don't get grease on the brake pads, hook the shoe's top spring into the pair of shoes. It's the longer of the two springs, and it goes in from behind (see above  note re. old -v- new shoes ).  Then altogether (the two shoes with their top spring) feed the spring behind the hub plate and carefully locate the forward-most* shoe's square hole onto the handbrake arm and the shoes top heel into the slot in the slave cylinder's piston. (* LH shoe on the LHS of the car, and RH shoe when working on the RHS rear brake). 

This is shoe is located first, and carefully, so as to avoid damage to the rubber boot on the slave cylinder.  As you can see the rear-most shoe is not yet fitted in place and is overlapping the slave cylinder ..this to allow some slack in the spring, for easier fitting of the forward-shoe around that rubber.  Once the forward-most shoe is securely in its slot / in place, then the top of the rear-most shoe can be pulled back and fitted into the back end of the slave cylinder.  The handbrake lever together with the spring's tension will hold the shoes in place, while the bottom spring is fitted . . .

^ the bottom spring hooks in from behind, and again I hooked one end into the forward-most shoe first.  I then firmly poked a pair of long nose pliers into the hole to stop it popping out again.   The rear-most shoe can be pulled forward, overlapping the bottom adjuster, to ease the tension on the spring as its end is hooked into that shoe.  Then the heel of the forward-most shoe can be located into the adjuster, followed by pulling the rear-most shoe back to locate that.  

That's the awkward part done.  

^ Then fit the brake-shoe retainer pins, through from behind the back-plate, and held in place with spring clips. These pins help to secure the shoes should one of the springs break &/or otherwise retain the brake-shoes when you next pull the drum off.  The book illustrates those clips orientated this way, so that's what I've done. 

Next up is to refit the drum, but as these pads are thicker than the old half-worn ones, the bottom adjuster needs to be wound out (anti-clockwise) so the brake shoes can move inwards towards the hub (they're pulled in by the springs).  The adjuster's peg is from behind the backing plate and has a 1/4" square drive.  If you don't have the correct tool to hand then you can use one similar to this . . .

^ 1/4" drive for alternative screwdriver bits.  That 1/4" drive nicely fits onto the brake-adjuster peg, and is easily turned with a spanner on the screw-driver bit. The spanner is 1/4" AF.   Easy-peasy and individually useful tools to have in the tool-roll anyway. 

     

^ Alfin type brake drum being fitted. Clearly the prior owner discovered the grub screw holes didn't quite align and so had opened-up the countersunk holes (inwards) a bit.  I tightened the two screws concurrently and the drum seemed to sit fine on the hub centre and studs.  

The brake adjuster was then wound in (clockwise thread) until the brake-shoes drag ( drug ?) when the drum was rotated. Handbrake applied and released to centre the shoes, and the brake shoes readjusted. Turning the brake drum until it felt tightest - pump the brakes and again pull the handbrake on again and release. Final adjustment of the adjuster - so the brake-drum turns freely. 

Job done    ..on this side. 

It got dark again and so I'll do the RH-side tomorrow.

I hope this pictorial may be useful to others, who perhaps like myself, are less experienced in replacing their car's brake shoes.

Pete

 

[Bfg]

Rear Brakes  - Part 4       ( Part 1 is  < here >  .. Part 2 is < here >,  and Part 3 was posted yesterday (above).

Today, same as yesterday, checking, greasing, replacing the brake shoes and the drum, but on the right hand side. . .

^ RHS rear brakes and first impressions is that the brake shoes are correctly fitted, and the friction material on those shoes was not delaminated.

As yesterday ; I removed the brake shoes and proceeded to ensure that the slave cylinder was lubricated and able to slide back n' forth in its slot. It slid easily enough but then seemed to come against a notch before sliding further. Naturally my first concerns were that the back-plate had worn locally and the slave cylinder was coming against a step in the metal.  I could not feel such a step with the blade of my knife, so I moved to investigate the plates on the reverse side of the backing plate . . .

 

^ with the rubber dust gaiter lifted out of the way, it was clear that something here was wrong (..aside from it being dry of grease).  I have very little direct experience of these Girling Brake's set-up, but it was immediately obvious that each of those plates should be sitting neatly under the slave cylinder.   

I undid the end connector of the handbrake cable ..to gain a little more distance between the arm and cylinder, and pulled the plates out . . .

  

^ The first photo shows the order and orientation as they came out.  ^^ The second photo shows the order and orientation as they should be.  As seen, this is for the RHS, and the handbrake-cable arm would be on the right of each plate.  The LHS brake is the mirror of these.  Note the upturned ends of one plate (red arrow), and also you might just make out that this same plate is also slightly curved ..it is sprung metal.

  

^ Working out the correct orientation is pretty obvious when you see the plates nested together, but the Triumph workshop manual is pretty hopeless in it diagram and makes no mention of their arrangement in the text.    ^^ The Haynes manual has a slightly clearer illustration (bottom RH side of the above daiagram) but again in typical Haynes fashion the accompanying text simply says to "reassemble in reverse order" to its disassembly.

It may not be apparent though why those upturned tabs are so tiny &/or why there is a third plate.  The answer is in the width of groove in either side of the slave cylinder ..into which these plates slot.  They are just wide enough for the middle of the three plates (which is flat) + the bottom  slightly-curved sprung plate ..as its upturned tabs are pushed through the groove.  Once they are located into the notches of the mid plate, the small top plate is fitted ..which is the same thickness as the height of those tabs.

^ In practice, it is easiest to fit the mid-plate first.  It comes in from the forward end, squeezing passed the handbrake lever arm. Then, already greased, the slightly-curved sprung plate - with its upturned tabs facing the mid-plate, is slid under the mid-plate, until its tabs engage in the mid plate (a bit of wiggling around is usually necessary to get them to align and lock together securely).

  

^ The curved sprung plate, pushing against the mid plate, holds the slave cylinder quite well - but the small plate is then fitted into the grooves (again from the front, passed the hand-brake arm) to lock everything tightly in place. The rubber boot fits around / under the wider mid-plate, which neatly retains it. 

Yes, I know..  the quality of my work here is ugly with surface rust, flaky paint, crud and grease.. and that beautifully clean smooth surfaces would be much better.  All I can say is that I didn't feel like doing that now, on this blustery rainy day, in January, in a polytunnel.  I can come back to it anon.

^ Having, corrected the mounting of this sides slave cylinder - and noted its tighter but now smoother movement in the backplate's slot, I got on with fitting the new brake shoes and Alfin type brake drum. 

For those interested in unsprung weight / mass.. my bathroom scales recorded each Alfin drum at 2kg in weight, and the old cast-iron drums at about 2.8 kg.  

 

^ And for those who like the style of the finned Alfin brake drums - here's what they look like behind pressed steel wheels.

Having discovered the error in assembly on the RHS - I went back to the LHS and found that its slave cylinder's sprung-plates had likewise been fitted incorrectly.  I managed to correct them with just the wheel removed and the handbrake cable disconnected ..so its lever tilted further forward.  Even removing the brake drum was not  necessary.

Job done, after checking that all the bolts to the prop / drive-shaft and half-shafts were all correct and tight, Katie  is now off the ramps and back on the ground.   Finishing up around 4pm it was getting dark and wet out so a test drive will wait. I required a cuppa tea !

That's all Folks !

I bid you a good evening tucked up snugly in the warm and dry.

Pete

 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

[Bfg]

19 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

That's wot I said .. there's an echo on this forum 

[Noel Tidybeard]

3 hours ago, Bfg said:

That's wot I said .. there's an echo on this forum 

echo

echo

echo

echo

echo

echo

echo

echo

😆

[Bfg]

(Front) Suspension gaffs ..

^ After getting the car back from M&T, subsequent to the chassis change, Katie's  ride height was pretty even all around ..but too high.  For scale ; the tyres are 165/80-15.

^ After I lowered Katie's  rear suspension by 15 - 20mm (with settling), the front remains high.  So today I set about looking into that and a few other things wrong with the front suspension. I actually don't mind the way it looks, but I'm sure the car's handling would be improved if things were sorted. . .

     

^ it was a rainy and dull day here in Suffolk today, and Katie  was up in the air again.  Actually working on this suspension stuff, road springs, etc.. is all unfamiliar to me. As I said to my friend Rich, aside from the A-series Citroens - I don't remember pulling apart a car's front suspension before.  And I've only ever used a pair of spring compressors which clamped a spring on its outside.  Doing this would be a learning curve for me, so perhaps it is for some of you too.?

^^ The TR4A's in-spring damper is retained by two brackets and four studs at the bottom, and a single stud at the top - with a nut & lock-nut on it.  Remove those nuts, top and bottom, and the damper can be lowered out from below.     ^^^ I then jacked up under the wishbone's bottom trunnion to compress the road-spring.  As you can see - the steering arm, brake and hub each remained untouched.

  

^ I think it was the young Mr Pringle of the East Saxon's TR Register group who needed and so made a spring compressor for his own car, and while doing so very kindly made a second.. so that may be loaned out within our group. 

The tool comprises of a length of 1/2" all-thread that goes up through the spring and wishbone ..to fit where the damper was.  It has a thick metal bottom plate which was been drilled to fit the damper bracket's studs, and then it also comprises of a few nuts & washers. It's surprising simple, but it does need to be robust to take the spring's fully compressed loads.   

It is fitted from underneath and the adjusted so the top of the thread protrudes 5" or more up into the wheel-arch space.  I greased the top thread so its nut would unwind easier against the road spring's compression. That top nut has two plain washers to slide one over the other, which probably helped too. 

^ The TR's bottom spring-pan is secured by six bolts, through the bottom wishbone arms.  As they are undone - all the spring's compressive force transfers to the spring-compressor.  And then, as the top nut of the tool is unwound, the pan is pushed down by the road-spring.  You'll see that the spring's angle is not the same as the studs through the wishbone, so the pan drags down those until it reaches their ends ..and then it springs outwards under the trunnion.  It's under a huge compressive force so keep fingers well clear.

As I lowered it further, the outside edge of the spring pan slipped down the wooden block and hooked up on the top of my trolley jack.  At that point it still had an inch of spring compression (before the spring's free length was reached, and no more load) - but with a spanner between it and me it prised inwards easily ..and with a twang. 

The full spring length / no compressive load, was reached after undoing the top nut by about 4". 

^ The top nut was then unwound all the way and removed - so the all-thread could be withdrawn through the spring and wishbone, taking with it (on its bottom end) the spring-pan.  As you can see the road-spring stayed put, held into the top cup by the anti-vibration collar.  It was surprising tight, but pulled out. 

Confession time - I borrowed the compressor, but had to modify it   ..to fit the damper bracket's stud pattern on Katie . . .  

  

^ I certainly don't like to alter a borrow tool, but the holes were too close together in the one plane. I wonder if damper bracket's hole pattern on the lower wishbone's spring pan is slightly different between the TR4 and the TR4A / later cars ?  In any case I'll gladly make a new plate to replace this one.

Moving on ...

  

^ Comparing Katie's  original (well at least from when I bought her) front road spring - left in this photo,  with the spring that M&T had fitted (..to level the car which was previously sitting low on the driver's side)  and you'll immediately note that Katie's  original has more winds and slightly thicker wire than M&T's.  Otherwise they are much the same uncompressed length, each at 10-1/4".  

Skinnier / thinner wire might prompt you to think that the spring would be weaker than the more robust looking one.  Like-for-like that would be true, but in this case the skinnier spring's metal is probably what Moss catalogue describes as Silicon Chrome.  The steel used in Katie's  original springs is likely to be of a less springy spec.   

If they had been the same metal and wire diameter, then more windings in a spring's length would be softer.  That may seem counter intuitive but the wire's length (wound-into-a-spring) is greater and so there's more to give than in a shorter length.  The same principle apply but I find it easier to understand this when a spring is in tension ..a longer piece of wire will stretch more than a similar but shorter piece of wire, under the same load.

Theory is all well and good but I tested it . . .

^ 46 kg (101 lb) loading onto the spring compressed Katie's original road spring 17mm, from 260mm (10-1/4") to 243mm (9-9/16").  Repeating the same-load test with M&T's road spring and, in accordance with the theory, it only compressed 9mm to 251mm (9-7/8").

If we were to assume a TR4's 1015kg road weight is approximately 50-50% between axles, and 50-50% between L and RH sides, then we are talking about a static load on each of these springs of around 254kg (..ignoring pre-compression of the spring when fitted).  254kg is 5.52 times the 46kg brick load used in my test.  So, if the spring's compression was linear to load - then changing back to Katie's original springs would be result in a drop in front-axle ride height - approximate to the difference in compression (original -v- M&T springs of the test) x 5.52.  

The difference was 17mm - 9mm = 8mm.  And 8 x 5.52 = 44mm (1.73").    That's probably more than I'm looking to reduce Katie's  front axle ride height by,  but I don't expect the spring rates to be linear to load. We will see.!  However crude the mathematics - they are helpful ..insomuch as do suggest that I ought not reduce the thickness of the spring's anti-vibration collars.  

If that was all I needed to do then I'd have got on with putting the original springs back in.  But I have a few jobs yet to do under here. . .

I continued working for another half an hour, to try & free the seized lower trunnion bolt ..and indeed I made some encouraging progress - but again I decided not to work by torchlight. 

Tomorrow will be soon enough   ..yeah I know - I sorta sound like James Bond ! 

Bidding you a good'n

Pete

 

     

[Bfg]

Following the encouraging progress I'd made on getting Katie's  lower trunnion / fulcrum assembly to loosen - today I started off with this . . .

^ With the road-spring-pan removed from the bottom of the lower wishbone, each leg of the wishbone could (..if they weren't seized onto the through bolt) move a little further away from the others.   As hoped.. the steel spacers within the bushes were not equally seized (as tightly as one another !) onto the bolt, and so with the castle nut reversed and set to be level with the end of the bolt's thread - I could clout its end ..and that achieved a small amount of movement.. the opening up of a gap between the rear wishbone leg and the steering trunnion's upright.   Excellent !

It couldn't however go very far because the bolt was mostly seized into the front wishbone leg (the underside of which can be seen on the RHS of the above photo).  For the wishbones to have enough free movement away from one another, to at least get the rear wishbone leg off the through-bolt, the wishbones inner end would have to be free of the constraints of their chassis brackets..  ie. the whole suspension assembly would have to come off the car. 

Thankfully the design allows the brake caliper to be undone and moved aside without undoing any hydraulic connection.  The caliper is held in place with two bolts, from the inner wheel-arch side, and then there's also a bracket behind there ..to support the hydraulic pipe. That too needs to be released (one nut ..which happened to be missing on Katie ) from a stud into the back of the upright hub assembly.  I hooked the caliper up with wire from two of the wing fastening screws, which project into the top of the wheel-arch.

^ The steering's tie-rod ball-jointed end also has to be released from the hub's steering lever-arm (aka ; tie rod arm).  I've borrowed this breaker tool from my friend Andrew. It's simple to use .. just ease the rubber boot up so that the cast forks of the tool can sit directly onto the end of the lever-arm, tighten its bolt against the bottom thread of the tie-rod's ball joint, and give the bottom of tool's bolt a confidently sharp hit, upwards, with a hammer.  

  

^ Next up I undid the wishbone's bottom inner fulcrum brackets (bolted to the chassis brackets), followed by the top inner fulcrum which is bolted to the top of the chassis' suspension tower in the wheel-arch again.   That was awkward because two of the four bolt threads had been chewed up. I'll need to replace those bolts and see if I can get in there with a tap to clean out the captive nuts in the chassis tower. 

That's it..  the suspension can be lifted off the trolley jack, off the car and out of the wheel-arch ..as an assembly.

^ On the floor and soon to be on the bench where it's easier to work.  With all the cast iron - there's not much that's lightweight on these old TR's.  From this photo you can see how, with the bottom, outer fulcrum's nut removed, the lower wishbone's rear leg might be pulled back ..off the otherwise seized through bolt. 

 

^ all together now  "Three wheels on my wagon and I'm just .... " 

^ with the rear lower wishbone arm removed, I replaced the bottom fulcrum's castle nut (reverse way around again) and tapped (firmly !) the seized bolt out.  

Terrific ! Success !   Hurrah !    

       ..I really wasn't looking forward to trying to cut that size of toughened bolt out.

  

^ after a bit of cleaning up in white spirits, I found the bits mostly serviceable. The dust collars, being so thin a metal, are a bit iffy - but if pushed they could be reused. And the nut & through-bolt, washers, spacer tubes and polybushes are certainly OK.  I have of course ordered new replacements.   

^ It's now no wonder that the suspension creaked and groaned. and that I could barely turn the poly-bushed pin by hand. The tightness of the castle nuts on the upper wishbone's inner fulcrum pin proved difficult.  Holding that cast iron pin wasn't easy, and the force needed to get the nuts undone was chewing up a good work-mate.   This didn't work !   

^ One G-clamp didn't work either, the bench still wasn't strong enough. I had to lock the workmate up with two G-clamps and a thick piece of steel plate to stop that fulcrum pin from turning. I don't know what force was required but you can see the length of extension I used.  The torque setting in the manual (Haynes is easier to find) recommends 26 - 40 lb.ft. for the original rubber bushes. Why such a broad range I do not know. For red-polybushes, which don't flex anywhere nearly as much as rubber, I'll probably use 20 lb.ft.  and if I note bump steer then I'll pinch them all up just a little more.

Once released and dismantled I found the grease inside the bush to be dry.   

Today's weather was very mild this morning but by 3 o'clock it was raining, very blustery and cold ..oh and getting dark. So that was it. and early finish today.

Useful progress has been made and I've now learnt how to dismantle the front suspension. I'm well-pleased that the bottom trunnion / outer fulcrum bolt came out, without a day of cutting and hammering being required.  And I'm similarly glad to have discovered why Katie's  suspension groaned ..it was simply bolted up too flipping tight by far ..or whatever words you may choose to substitute, and then also was dry of lubrication in all the bushes. Changing the bottom wishbone's chassis brackets to the two stud version will give me peace of mind.  And all that added to yesterday's tasks regarding spring stiffness / ride height - I feel that I'm well on the way to getting the front suspension sorted.  It was not a job I wanted to do, and so very much didn't look forward to getting on with, but by God it's happening now !

I bid you a good evening gentlemen.  Thanks to each for your input and advice today - much appreciated 

Pete.

 

p.s. I'll check for typos tomorrow, now is supper time

 

[Bfg]

Good Evening,  Not so nice weather today and my energy levels seem to be a little depleted.  Thursday is also cleaning day in the apartment - miserable task and time consuming when you're an untidy person   Nevertheless (just a little) more done . . .

 

^ Upper fulcrums dismantled for the polybushes and pins to be thoroughly cleaned ..and also the end faces of the casting which the polybushes are tightened against, before being reassembled with turbo gel and the nuts refitted. I torqued these to 20 ft.lb. and then tightened just a bit more to get the pins in.   ^^ After a bit of tarting up of the disc's shield (scraping off the loose paint and a quick coat of paint) and also pumping fresh grease into the outer ball joint.. the upper wishbone were reassembled onto the upright.  I'll schedule to replace that top ball joint soon, as it is not as smooth turning as it might be.

I did have a go at undoing the steering arm lever, but one of the nuts was seized on and I really didn't want to shear off the stud. It did unwind a thread or two as the stud pulled out, but I thought better of pushing my luck.  It re-tightened fine. I replaced the nut on the other end of the lever arm as its nyloc was barely gripping. I used medium strength Loctite on the thread ..just for reassurance.   

Moving on . . .

^ As Blue Peter used to say here are some we prepared earlier..  Bottom wishbone brackets each with two studs. I bought them second hand and cleaned them up months ago.

  

^ this is the RHS front chassis mount onto which the bottom wishbone bracket fitted.  I don't know what the hole on the right is for, but the top left hole is where the single stud bracket fits, and the hole below that has been drilled to take the later double-stud bracket ..except the holes are not in line, nor are the hole centres (distance apart) correct.  In short ; the bracket didn't fit without my first having filed the bottom hole slightly oval .  This sides rear bracket / mount's holes were similarly inaccurate, by about a millimeter..  so more filing.  This might account for why M&T's mechanic, I think underhandedly didn't fit double-stud brackets as expected  ..filing steel is too much like physical work and it's time consuming.

^^ The grease is a giveaway as to how flat the wishbone bracket fitted against this mounting. The second photo above shows just a little clearer that the suspension forces was pulling the single stud outwards and had dished the metal.  Gauged against a straight edge - the hole had pulled out by about a millimeter.  The way-too-small & skinny washer fitted behind it was likewise dished.  I fear an unfortunate kerbing would probably have torn the nut, with washer, through the plate.  And if you doubt that this could happen . . .

^  this is the back face of the rear, LHS bottom chassis mount (photo laying on its RH side) where the original single-stud of the wishbone bracket had previously pulled through. The chassis has been repaired by welding a plate over the hole, leaving no room for camber adjustment spacers.  Again a small skinny washer was under this bracket's single nut. It was an old nyloc that I feel ought to have been replaced.  

It's hidden under the paint but I hope that this repair plate was welded all the way around.  I see no evidence of cracked paint and so I feel it must have been.  If that is so - then this repair is strong enough for the job ..but it's lazy workmanship and poor engineering practice.  In my opinion the torn out plate should have been neatly cut out and new plate inserted flush with the original plane, and of course that should also have been welded continuously, all the way around.  As it is I'm not happy with having the second stud coming through to a stepped surface, where the second stud's nut, and its washer really ought to sit flat to the surface. . .

 

^ a crude solution, in lieu of doing it right at a later date, and very many times stronger than how is was.  Two thick spacer washers 1-1/4" (32mm) in diameter fill in the step level. Even these would have been better than the 1mm thk x 22mm diameter mild steel washer that was used..  but then I'm also adding a well-fitting plate behind those ..to distribute the stud (lower wishbone) loads not only through the repair plate, but also all around the perimeter of the original structure. 

The photos show the 'dry run' ..where I'm checking that the studs are long enough for nyloc nuts.

 

^ what was  -v-  what I'm now fitting. The 5/32" (4mm) thick square backing plate is recycled from my boat (hence a couple of surplus holes).  In that former life ( ..if a steel plate can be said to have a life ? ) it was fitted under the deck to take the loads of the mast's rigging.

And that's about all I got to do today...   Pathetic effort Pete - must try harder 2/10 

Pete

 

 

 

[Bfg]

Having yesterday made the first backing plate, for behind the lower wishbone's chassis mount, today I made the other for this side. . .

^ the wishbones are reversed in this photo, ie the front one is to the left and the rear on the right.  The 2nd backing plate I made (again from recycled steel) is much the same for either, and both are 4mm thick ..to replace the skimpy washer(s).  The front-bottom wishbone bush has been dismantled, cleaned out, lubricated and reassembled onto the replacement double-stud bracket.  These bushes have a spacer tube inside them and so I've torqued the nut to 30 ft.lb. The joint now pivots freely and smoothly but it is not slack.   The rear (black) single stud bracket is bent and twisted ..just because it can be I guess. , and it's very tight to move. 

I pulled that apart and its poly bush is excessively worn, both the spacer tube is a loose fit on the through-bolt, and the polybush is a loose fit on the spacer. . . 

 

^ I've decided to bodge it (..until I get replacement polybush) and have used a wrap of coke tin around the through bolt and a double wrap of coke tin around the spacer tub.  Suitably lubricated and reassembled onto the double-stud bracket, the slack is gone.  But it's another re-do-it task on my perpetual job list.

Moving on, encouraged by the postman delivering the replacement bottom fulcrum pin & bush kits   . . .

^ TR-GB part number SS7 for the TR4a-6. I was pleasantly surprised to see the weather caps with o-rings included ..which weren't in the photograph on their website ..and which I forgot to order.  So for under £42 (for both sides) including delivery it seems good value.  As other companies are charging double this figure I guess theirs are stainless steel &/or a brand-name polybushes.  These metal bits, including the spacer tubes are bright-nickle-plated, but with Copaslip on the through bolt, lubricant on the bushes, and waterproof grease smeared over their outsides - they ought to last the week out ..after all it is Friday today. 

Reassembly time . . .

  

^ I lubricated the inside of the weather cap and fitted the o-ring is fitted into it, and then the polybush goes through it as illustrated. The polybush, with captive weather-cap is then an interference push fit into the end of the wishbone arm.  It goes in but needs a bit of pushing. I did this by placing one of the large plain washers, supplied in the kit, on the edge of the work bench with the bush face-up on that (so as not to buckle the flange of the cap) and then pushed the arm down onto it.

^ repeat with weather cap, o-ring and polybush on the other side of the arm, and then insert the through-bolt with spacer tub and end washer.  You may note that the spacer tub is not all bright and shiny and new. That's because the new one didn't fit on the bolt, so I'm re-using the old ones.  The new through-bolt is a tad larger in diameter than the old one ..which might be attributed to its nickle plating ?  However, the new bolt is tight fit into the bottom trunnion, whereas the old bolt (with no plating) was a little loose. Thankfully the old bottom fulcrum pin came apart with its spacers undamaged. 

^ ensuring I got the arms the right way around, and the right way up.. I assembled them onto the upright's bottom trunnion.   Note ; the large plain washers (supplied) are in each weather-shield cap. These I lubricated with turbo-gel against the polybush and with waterproof grease on their outside faces. The through bolt, and the inside of each spacer tube is of course liberally coated with Copaslip.    

 

^ I tightened the nut until the arms were able to pivot on their bushes freely and smoothly, but neither too slack nor too tight. There is no slop in this assembly nor any binding. Turning the through-bolt, so the flat of its head was flat to the disk, did adjusted things so I adjusted things several times over until I was happy with the tension. I also fitted an extra washer under the nut ..to get the split pin through the castellation, without compromising that tension.   The split pin was too long so I cut it to size before locking everything up - Job Done.

  

^ before refitting the front suspension assembly - I wanted to clean the threads of those top fulcrum bolt holes. The suspension in the meantime was playing dead on the workmate 

To be honest, by this time I had had enough.  It was quarter past three and on this dull day - getting dark already.   After a week of it ..on just one side of the car - I'm tired of being filthy dirty, slimy with grease, crawling under the car, laying down on cold paving slabs, and in general doing (..or part doing) a whole list of jobs that I feel ought to have been right on a car that came back from a professional chassis swap.   Gripe over - I'm just a little too tired for this sh.... 

One last effort . . .

^ a task that I'm sure would be easier with two persons ..preferably anyone but me !   Literally kicking the trolley-jack to maneuver the suspension into place, I first loosely fitted one of the top fulcrum bolts.  At this conjuncture the bottom wishbone is just hanging down.  

Dropping the track rod end back into place helped as an arm to lever the hub around, to swing and shove the bottom wishbone brackets into the chassis mounts.

^ with a huff and a puff  - progress   ..the bottom wishbone brackets sitting flat against their chassis mounts.  

  

OK.. that'll do for tonight. These brackets are now double-stud type, with sensible (..IMO ) backing plates and new nyloc nuts.  And the bottom outer fulcrum is no longer seized. 

The suspension now swings up n' down easily and silently.  I wonder if, without all those joint being seized or overly tight, I'll now need new dampers ?

Bidding you a good evening, and a great weekend.

Pete

 

 

[Dobloseven]

Once again you've shown, if you want a job doing right, do it yourself. I do find it concerning, though, what the so called experts couldn't be bothered to do properly. 

[lexi]

Well done Sir!  Always hankered after a TR.  Having the family way back, I kept a 2.5pi Saloon for over 5 years.  That double wishbone suspension rides the bumps better that any Mac struts.  The Rover P6 was great on the bumps too with similar  wishbone set ups.

[Dobloseven]

7 hours ago, lexi said:

Well done Sir!  Always hankered after a TR.  Having the family way back, I kept a 2.5pi Saloon for over 5 years.  That double wishbone suspension rides the bumps better that any Mac struts.  The Rover P6 was great on the bumps too with similar  wishbone set ups.

Sorry to be pedantic, but believe the Triumph 2000,2.5,2500 saloons had Macpherson struts at the front. HTBC if not the case. 

[lexi]

Quote

12 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

Sorry to be pedantic, but believe the Triumph 2000,2.5,2500 saloons had Macpherson struts at the front. HTBC if not the case. 

 

You may be right.........long time ago.

[Bfg]

for what its worth - I'm still learning.

below  copied from the TR register . . .

  

On 1/14/2023 at 11:43 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Were there any markings on the head of the trunion bolt?

Looks like the specialists are back selling a B&Q commercial bolt rather than HT bolts for this application. (Race to the bottom on pricing, just like the MG world).  The kit part number on the bag is a vague reference to the old Quinten Hazel kit number  (QSK200S)  The thread of the bolt is too long to my mind and should be phosphate coated not bright zinc finish. No doubt the kit supplier copied another kit, which was a copy of another etc. and the first a copy of the original Triumph items, done to reduce price.

Type in 139835, bolt part number, and you will find the drawing I did in 1989 of this bolt to get it made correctly for Cox & Buckles.  As far as I am aware there is only one company in UK that still make this item in the small volumes the classic car world demand.

 

PS Pete, turn the front steering to full lock and check the additional thread of the trunion bolt, sticking out the nut, does not scrape your disc.

PPS  Stroke the metal thrust washers with a file, I think they should be hardened.

Thank You Peter, 

The bolt head markings (three radial lines) are for grade-5 UNF 3F.  I don't know what the 3F signifies but is perhaps the manufacturer ? 

^ The UNF reference to the thread is obvious, and grade-5 signifies a lower grade of Medium Carbon steel - quenched and tempered ..which I understand to mean surface hardening.  Medium carbon steel would be appropriate for suspension parts, which should not be so hard as to be brittle, although perhaps grade-8 might be marginally better. As the bolt fits into a brass trunnion, then I cannot see it makes much difference either way. A half inch diameter grade-5 bolt isn't going to shear off any time before the whole of the front of the car is buckled under !  

I must confess to not being familiar with the three radial lines not being aligned to the points on the head, but this chart shows them. Conversely the bolts might be chinese copies made by people who don't recognised their significance.

I definitely agree with what you say about the threaded length of the supplied bolts...

^ this, having structural components mated onto a thread rather than plain shank, is really poor engineering practice. Those threads will cut into the inside of the spacer tubes &/or flatten off.  The thread's reduce diameter means that there is already a bit of slop in tightness of that connection .. and with wear - there will soon be very much more.  And that looseness will result in uneven loading / twist on the upright post - which will soon wear its hole on one side.  The previously fitted through-bolt had just 4mm more plain shank length and so was also unsuitable.  I will go to Suffolk Fasteners to see if they have a couple of longer grade-8 bolts (with longer plain shanks) which I can cut (the thread off) to length and drill for the split pin. Again it's on my PJ list (..perpetual job list).

The washers I agree could be better / harder to lessen denting and wear from the very ends of the spacer tubes (see photo below) and perhaps also resist dishing. I suspected that this would only be an issue after a considerable number of miles (..that is if they hadn't already rusted away in the meantime !) - but reading Marco's post and seeing his photo teaches me otherwise.  Marco's photo of a cracked and broken up washer is of course more likely with hardened (too brittle) steel rather than that of a more ductile specification ..so we need to find the middle ground. 

 

^ Katie's  rubber steering-lock buffer (red arrow) has perished and is cracked ..so that again is on my PJ list, and I've noted a score on the back face of the disc where the nut head (second photo) has worn into it.  I've heeded Stuart's warning that both the bolt and castellated nut head need to be flat to the disk. Thank you again Stuart.  

 

Below,  Marco's advice about the length of the nylon / polybushes bushes versus the spacer tubes - is also very correct . . .

On 1/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, Z320 said:

...

Locked tight the assembly is a solid metal unit and the POM bushes (this is mostly not Nylon), pressed tight in the wishbones, slide on the steel distancers.

For this a high demand for the correct dimensions is needed!

The distancers have to be about 1/10 mm longer than the POM bushes pressed in the wishbones, the dust washers below the flanges.

The way you see it on the photo the distancer have to move tight in the POM bushes.

Ciao, Marco

^ " about 1/10 mm"  or 0.004" is enough free length so the polybush is able to freely pivot / turn around the spacer tube, which itself should be locked tight to the trunnion-upright by the through bolt.  If the spacer-tubes are too short (..or the polybushes too long) &/or if the washers are too soft a metal and are dented in (as in my photo above) - then the ends of the polybush are squeezed tight and it is locked ..so cannot rotate with the wishbone.  The wishbone then rotates on the outside of the polybush and premature wear will occur, particularly in their thrust faces.  End result ; a tight joint to start with and then sloppy.  

I thank you Marco for this advice I will correct mine when I change the through bolt. 

Clearly this is one of those jobs that looks pretty straight forward - but in which there are quite a few pitfalls for the unwary, the too tired, &/or for those working by torchlight in the cold.   

Thank you Again Peter, Stuart, and Marco for sharing your invaluable insight and experience. I am slow but i am learning.

Pete

 

[Bfg]

Again just to fill in the gaps.. copied across from the TR register forum . . .

  

On 1/14/2023 at 1:42 PM, stuart said:

FWIW you can still buy a complete inner lower wishbone mounting box and they are a lot easier to fit than p**s about repairing one that has been pulled through. Also have you get the extra re-enforcing plates added to the side of the boxes Pete a la TR5/6?

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart,

From the parts catalogue I was aware of the new / replacement body mounts available. These having four holes so they can be used on either the left or right hand side of the chassis ..with double stud lower wishbone brackets.  And my good friend Rich C-R answered my query as to what the spare hole was for in Katie's  body mounts - likewise ; it was from the original brackets not being handed, but of course they were only for the single stud wishbone brackets. 

^ yes indeed, Katie's  replacement chassis does have "the extra re-enforcing plates added to the side of the chassis mount boxes, a la TR5/6" .. although the one side appears to be a home-made plate rather than the pressed-steel stiffening web.  

Of course.. if the plonker had welded them on the other way around, ie., with the low cut web  away  from the suspension tower - then I'd have been able to get the poly-bush's through-bolt out !     I fear Darwin's theories about the evolution of this species  must have hit a concrete block sometime in this post-industrial-revolution-era.!

- - -

On 1/15/2023 at 8:01 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Pete.  The lock stock is a steel item held to the trunion with an hex head screw.  
Pt no 156111.  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/stop-steering-lock-156111.html

I think I read that someone had produced this as an eccentric stop, like the sidescreen cars had.  The sidescreen car one is not tall enough for an IRS car so cannot be used as a direct fitment without the addition of a spacer.

Are you sure Triumph didn't fit a bit of perished rubber hose - like the one on Katie  ?   . . .

^ As it was too small to be of use, ie to make contact with the stop (before the disc hit) - so it has lasted very well.

- - -

On 1/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, Z320 said:

The distancers have to be about 1/10 mm longer than the POM bushes pressed in the wishbones, the dust washers below the flanges.

The way you see it on the photo the distancer have to move tight in the POM bushes.

If the bushes are shorter than the POM bushes there are 3 possibilities:

1st: the new bushes are too short, this was the case with my repair set,

also my distancers have been to small and felt straight through the bushes,

all unbelievable rubbish and in the bin

2nd: the new POM bushes do not have the correct dimensions

3rd: one more restorer overdid it with paint or even @&€!!@ powder on the wishbones!

imo, if have to do the whole thing again you could use much less grease.

Ciao, Marco 

Thanks again Marco,

With Katie ; 1. both the old and the new distancer / spacer tubes, on which the POM bush should rotate, were / are too short.  And without those tube's length being greater / the tube projecting, even just a small amount, the POM bush gets clamped tight.  I have pulled mine apart again (on the LHS) and reassembled it without the dust / weather caps. I did dismantle / reassemble and try it with just the end-most dust caps in place, but still the tubes were too short and the fulcrum locked tight ..so now it has no dust caps. Waterproof grease will have to do the job of keeping the moisture & dust out, but with the thrust washers, tolerances suitably snug, and things bolted up tight - even water under pressure would not easily find its way in.  I tightened the through-bolt to 50 ft.lb. (which then backed it off, just a few degrees, to fit the split-pin) and can detect no play at all, but the fulcrum now pivots smoothly.

I did go shopping for longer 9/16" UNF bolts, which I could cut to length and fit - so the bush didn't sit on the bolt's thread, but my local stockist didn't have any.  I'll have to order a pair and I'll swap them out sometime ..preferably when it's not freezing outside.

Cheers to all,

Pete

 

   

 

[Bfg]

Not a whole lot of anything new to report on today, other than it's pretty cool to be lying on paving slabs in the polytunnel. Still if I'd like to enjoy the car in the springtime and summer then this work is best done 'out of season'.  Looking on the bright side (literally) - the clear polythene poly-tunnel is good for natural light during the day . . .

^ With the chassis brackets and wishbone fulcrums sorted, save for wanting to find another through-bolt for the bottom trunnion - with a longer length of plain-shank which the bush can sit on - it was past due my putting things back together. The brake caliper was refitted this morning, as was the track rod end.  While the weather was still warm - I'd stripped the crusty paint off the top face of the spring pan and repainted it, so that was nicely cured and ready with the (original) lower-rated road springs to refit. . .

  

^ removing the support from the trolley jack, the wishbones swing all the way down  ..so the all-thread / compressor only had to wind the spring up by 3".  When the spring-pan was close to the bottom wishbone, I lifted the hub up and inserted a 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" block of wood between the upper wishbone and the suspension tower - so the pan's studs were at a better angle for fitting the pan onto, and so I could get the nut onto the inside studs.  With the pan located I wound the compressor up just enough to get the pan's nuts and their washers onto the wishbones through bolts ..and then pulled the pan into place with the six of those. 

Next up was to remove the spring compressor and to refit the damper in its place. Looking at the bottom brackets of the damper I noted things looked a bit odd - so I undid the through bolt to see what was what . . . 

^ The through-bolt is the wrong size. A 3/8" diameter bolt had been fitted where the holes in the brackets and the spacer tube through the damper's bottom bush are sized for a 7/16" diameter bolt.   I didn't have one, so again it's something to be shopped for and redone.  This was probably the source of one of the more obscure clonks.  Hey ho, I still can't get it all back together again today.. 

Moving on . . .

^ I still have the left-hand-side front-suspension to do.   same ol' thing again. . .

^ damper, road-spring and caliper off, inner wishbone chassis brackets undone, and an hour-long skirmish to get the track rod end to push out ..which again had me cussing the previous mechanic.   

Funny thing.. another five and a half hours crawling around under the car in close to zero temperatures wasn't part of the envisaged living-the-dream.

I'm out tomorrow, so I can look forward to another weekend under the car.  oh joy of joys.. 

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

Friday morning I managed to do a couple of hours work before quickly showering and changing to go out to lunch. 

So the RHS front suspension was then on the bench, for me to battle with its lower-outer fulcrum / trunnion pin. . .

   

^ As on the LHS of the car - on the RHS, the rear wishbone arm became looser after the spring pan was removed, and then together with its POM bushes it came off easily enough. Its spacer tube was left still seized onto the through bolt and it took a fair bit of persuasion ..and damage to the through-bolt and its nut - but the assembly succumbed to the bigger hammer and finally freed off.

^ The through bolt was also seized in the upright and again the trunnion's spacer tube for the forward arm of the wishbone remains seized onto the bolt.  Thankfully again 'gentle persuasion' won over the need to be cut off.

I also managed to clean up the flaky paint and surface corrosion on this side's spring pan, and to quickly slap on a protective coat of POR.  

- - -

Today, temperatures outside reached a balmy 3-degress celsius here in Ipswich - but bright with sunshine, it was a tad warmer within Katie's  poly-tunnel.  Taking advantage of that, the objective was simply to do a bit of cleaning / and tarting up. . .

   

^ the single stud lower-inner fulcrum brackets were removed, and then it was just a matter of cleaning up and repainting the arms.  Because Katie  is intended as a driver rather than show car, after a good power-wire-brushing and degreasing - I simply used an aerosol primer and aerosol black paint for these.  I hope not to be looking at them very often anyway.!   The polybushes appear to be seviceable.

    

The upper-inner fulcrum I both cleaned up and reassembled with fresh lubricant. Beforehand the wishbones were turning on the polybushes, and now the polybushes are turning on the fulcrum pin. 

^ And finally for today a quick coat of black paint, over the silver coloured POR  I'd used on the spring pan.  Paint runs and drips were a free option ..so I had them !

The tarting-up paintwork I've done was more to get rid of the flaky paint that hold moisture.  I spray it all over with wax after assembly back on the car.  

As soon as the sun went behind the oak tree and apartment building - the temperature in the polytunnel took a sharp dive, so I call it a day.

I bid you a pleasant and good evening,

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

Monday.. it was -1 degrees at 10am so I waited until the temperatures warmed to zero. No sunshine to warm the polytunnel but cutting and drilling steel was OK. . .

  

^ again the hole for the 2nd stud of the RHS lower fulcrum / chassis brackets were incorrectly drilled, and so the bottom hole of each had to be made oval to get the studded bracket to fit.  Seen above is the rear lower wishbone chassis bracket.  As illustrated by the shim (used to adjust the wheel's camber) the wishbone's bracket couldn't / didn't fit straight because an inside corner weld, for the additional stiffening plate, was blobbed on the surface rather than nicely concave. 

^^ Copaslip grease seen in the second photo illustrates the twisted angle that the single-stud bracket had been fitted. This angle of twist would likewise be in the polybush, whose pivot axis was out of line with the forward of these wishbone bushes. 

^ I've relieved that weld a bit, but I didn't want to cut it all away,  Instead I've cut a notch into one of the camber-adjustment shims and also rounded its bottom corner to clear the weld.  The shim now sits straight and flat to the surface, which in turn will mean that the wishbone's bracket and polybush will also sit in axial plane.

 

^ I've also made a pair of thick backing plates for behind the chassis brackets.  They're of up-cycled steel, so a few extra holes ..but still very much better than the thin small washers that were fitted.

OK coffee break over, time for a little more work.  

The temperature out there is now 4 degrees warmer, and that seems to be good for most of the week.

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

Well I'm pleased to report that Katie's  suspension, on both sides, is now reassembled and she is now back to having four footprints (tyres) on the ground.  I'm not finished yet but the outstanding jobs necessitate me getting new parts ..and in the meantime I can see if what I've done actually makes any noticeable difference.  I lowered the car off the stands just before 5pm and it's rush hour traffic, raining and dark ..so a road test will have to wait. 

Just one other point, I think worth adding to my reports on the task to date ..in the hope that others can avoid the same mistake. It is again with regard to the bottom outer-fulcrum (on a TR4a or later car) and the fit of the POM bushes and their spacer tubes into the wishbones.  I got it wrong on this side (perhaps because the bolt and the spacer tubes were rusted in) and so had to take it apart again . . .

 

^ did manage to get it assembled (without the water / dust caps, which would have only confused matters more) and expected it to all pull together nicely when I tightened the through-bolt. As you can see (above) it didn't want to pull tight, and instead the wishbone became too tight to articulate on the trunnion.  I pulled it apart again and discovered that I had not been careful enough in cleaning out the rusty-crud inside the wishbone's through hole (into which these bushes fit). . . 

^ the lower wishbone arm (light olive coloured) had rusted inside the hole. And although I'd cleaned what I could see near the ends the middle of the hole was still packed hard with rusty crud (red arrows)  When the one POM bush (green) and spacer tube (light blue) were tapped in - the inside of the POM bush was pinched tight.  I then fitted the other bush in, from the other side, and the same happened.  Because the spacer tube is able to rotate on the through-bolt, I hadn't realised that these bushes were being pinched so tight against the spacer tube. Only when both sides were assembled and each spacer-tube was fixed (from rotating) between its washers, by the tightened through-bolt, did things become apparent.  

^ I dismantled it all again - and that hardened crud took a surprising amount of aggressive cleaning out with a power wire brush (conical ended). The hole through the wishbones needs to be thoroughly cleaned out back to bare metal, possibly honed to be parallel, if these POM bushes are to work as designed. 

- - -

This afternoon I sought a little more filth .. and by gum did I find it ! . . .

^ I suspected but hadn't actually noted wheel bearing rumbles, and with the disk pads dragging slightly, it was barely discernible hen the wheel was turned - but with the caliper off it was pdo that things could be very much smoother.  I pulled the outer bearing out and determined that the inner (larger) wheel bearing was still good to go for time being.   The outer one though was flaking its hardened surfaces.  The more I cleaned out the grease the worse it felt.

  

^ click on the photo to enlarge and you'll better see the pitted bearing face of this taper roller.  I suspect the inside face (hidden by the roller-bearing cage) is even worse.  The silver flecks, seen on the paper towel, are metal particles. It looks as if I caught this just in time. 

I had bought a replacement wheel bearing kit, and so was a little surprised to find the bearings inside the boxes to have been used.  Oops, it happens ..and I've done it myself - keeping the old, used but good bearings on the shelf just-in-case I urgently needed one.  This week I want the car back together and on the road again, and so opted to choose / reuse the better of these bearings.

As it happens, one of the outer bearings was shot but the other still serviceable. . . 

  

After much cleaning out of the old grease, and repacking with fresh (both the inner and outer bearings) it was all reassembled and adjusted.  This bearing is not perfect but (before the caliper was refitted) it is many times better than the one I took out. The hub n' disc now turn smoothly. I wonder if this bearing might be the persistent vibration I've been chasing ?  Time and testing will tell.  ..yeah I know, I'm an incurable optimist  

 

   

^ Katie's  on the ground again     I can't judge ride height, tracking or camber until the car has been driven to settle the suspension.  The weather forecast says heavy rain this evening but only a slight chance of rain tomorrow ..so all else being well - I'll take her out and see what's what.

Bidding you a good evening,

Pete.  

 

[mitsisigma01]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:00 AM, Dobloseven said:

the Triumph 2000,2.5,2500 saloons

Many decades ago my friend had one , went well , ride was lovely.... But smelt awful ... Turns out he used to always have roadkill in the boot for his ferrets and to practice skinning them and occasionally doing some taxidermy!!!!😷

[Bfg]

I took Katie  out yesterday, on wet roads, just through town and along the A14 dualcarriageway for one junction to Suffolk Fasteners ..where i picked up a couple of bolts with plain shanks for the lower damper mounts. Both sides on this car are presently fitted with a smaller size.  Then it was off to the supermarkets for grocery shopping. Add to this a twisted wrist and the bottom line is .. not exactly the ideal test drive for a sports car's front suspension. 

We then went to the East Saxon's TR Register monthly meeting ..for the time being held at The Cricketers, Fordham Heath, not far from Colchester. That journey was horrid with poor visibility from glaring headlamps (both oncoming and from behind) and road spray. It was made worse by the A14 around Ipswich coming to an almost standstill because of an accident, I think at the Copford Junction roundabout.  It took me 50 minutes to do 6 miles, despite diverting via narrow country lanes .. which were brought to a standstill when large lorries who had likewise sought an alternative route couldn't pass each other.!   The verges of those narrow lanes were churned up and so there was mud all over the road.  Then it was another 20 minutes of dual-carriageway driving in the dark.  Again a worthless exercise in testing Katie's revised front suspension. 

Tracking and camber angles are yet to be checked but.. tbh, for all the effort - the car feels only a bit better.  Perhaps more stable at motorways speeds and a little more responsive to tight-corner handling, but not nearly as sure footed as I had hoped  ..but perhaps that was as much me as the car.  With wet roads, poor visibility and heavy traffic - I wasn't comfortable. 

The front of the car still seems a little too high, and whereas I feared these (softer) road-springs would drop the front of the car by as much as an inch-and-a-half, I doubt if it has actually lowered by as much as 1/2". 

Hey Ho, if the weather is dry and mild on Sunday I'll try the car along country lanes.

Pete

[Bfg]

Sunday ..drive out in the countryside

^ without leaves on the tress the country lanes were looking a bit bleak ..but today was mild and overcast ..and so for January I'm certainly not complaining about being able to drive around with the roof open 

Destination was to be Sutton Hoo, museum and Anglo-Saxon royal burial site, but I opted to carry on instead to Orford Castle (keep) which I'd visited before but not since the scaffolding had been taken down to reveal the rendering now applied to the outside of the keep, which is thought to have been applied originally but which had long since washed away. 

     

^ Viewed onto the keep's north side.  The people in the bottom right of the photo give you a scale of this castle's keep.  The new sand-coloured rendering is to keep water out and help preserve the castle's structure.  I had a good conversation with Ben, one of the castle's experts and there's apparently no academic agreement that this tower was, or was not, once white washed.  I put it to him that as an aid to shipping (navigation / positioning), and as a statement Royal supremacy and military power then the rendering of this tower would most likely have been washed brilliant white (like the white tower of London was).  Seen thus and with the flags of both king and country flying from its towers Then it must have been an easy to spot landmark ..and an awe-inspiring patriotic sight, to any ship passing along the east coast.  Ben seemed to be in agreement with these suggestions. 

Our conversation continued along the lines that the garrison assigned to man this castle was unusually small (for a castle), but its role, as built, was at a watchtower (used as such even during the 2nd WW)  ..not least against invasion from the Flemish or French.  And a lighted beacon on the top of one of its towers could be seen from Framlingham (just 10 miles away) and also Bewdsey Castle (which i understand was lost to sea erosion), a similar distance away down the coast, military support could be called upon at short notice. 

 

^ Another of the questions I came away with, from my previous visit, was why would have a keep have a kitchen or stove on each floor. The pictures here show the one up in the top of the tower, ie., on the battlements. It is a large oven. The second photo shows its insides, which is probably 4 foot across.  Why have an oven right up on the roof ? My suggestion was that a fire had to be kept alight 24/7 ..in case the tower's distress beacon needed to be lit. so if the fire was burning anyway, why not use it to bake bread ? 

There was also a chimney from the basement, next to the well. And again, just a suggestion was that this would have been for heating water used in the keep. Which sorta fits in with this particular castle being predominantly run by clerics ..who were both scholarly and supposedly more trustworthy to oversee accounts record port fees / import duties. 

We also discussed a chamber in the basement, seemingly isolated from the main basement where there's the well. In some documents it's referred to as a cell, in others it is said to be a prison.  My hypothesis was that it was as cell, which is also a term commonly used to refer to a private room in monasteries, and that it was inhabited by a cleric, but that it's role was not as prison but as a strongroom (which is in the strongest part of the castle) for import taxes paid by merchant ships using this port, and for records of accounts (tally sticks and scrolls) from the local farms.   The cell has a separate garderobe (toilet) cubical and a slotted window, neither of which would have been necessary if the space was actual a dungeon type prison. 

From what I gather, in medieval times an aristocrat or knight.. ie a high-value (ransom) prisoner would be kept in much better accommodation, lesser prisons would normally be kept in a secure room in, or near, the castle's gatehouse (where screams could not be heard by the gentile in the keep), and any other criminal would be locked in the stocks or simply be put to death.  Again Ben was kind enough to listen and be open to these / my suggestions. He went on to ask / suggest I put them to English Heritage. 

So as you might gather, interesting conversations between enthusiasts...  castle nerds ? 

 

^ Viewed onto the keep's south-west side -  in the afternoon sunshine

 

^ this erosion of the stone is in the entrance foyer, and a reminder that the building was open to the elements for hundreds of years before being re-roofed and part renovated.  It's also a great expense for English Heritage and the other trusts to maintain the building in a safe state for visitors, but at the same time not to just clad everything that was original.    ^^ a small selection of Orford museum pieces are on display, some the coins date back 1500 or more years, these (in the photo) are relative modern.   I understand that various places had their own mint. for example I was reading the other day about Bury St.Edmund's Abbey, and apparently they minted their own coins. 

^ from the keeps battlement ; Katie  in the foreground, the town of Orford, the river Ore, and then Orford-Ness (shingle spit of land) with its military testing grounds fading into the East coast / north sea horizon.

  

^ It was a good visit but soon time to go home..

As I said in my last post, the suspension does feel better balanced (the front-end's handling feels a little more settled), but I feel the ride height is still 3/4" too high for a sports-car.   I'm suffering from a twisted-wrist at the moment and so don't wish to push the car, so for now I'll leave it alone - to see how I get on with her over the next couple of months. 

That's it, and again I bid you a good evening,

Pete.