project 1951 Pontiac Chieftain

[hairnet]

also you mentioned fun

in a rounda bout kinda way

yes?

its a hobby innit - keeps ya out the pub

catalina next

also you mentioned slow - but the background begs different - but then 50s was a more relaxed time to quote will smith 'crooze at 2 mile an hour so everyone see you'

thanks phil

 

[PhilA]

Slow, it accelerates quite rapidly, considering. But, the top speed is very Morris Minor. 

They both come from the same era, both aren't designed to cruise fast because back then you just couldn't. It was all a little more slow back then unless you had a sports car or big GT.

 

Phil

[PhilA]

I'm also quite impressed. Did a fluids check and my coolant hasn't changed color to look like chocolate soup. 

Oil could probably benefit from being changed again, it's flushing a lot of crap out.

Happy with that, overall. 

 

Phil

[PhilA]

Went for a run to get dinner (didn't feel like cooking). Since setting the timing 10° BTDC it's now a fair bit quieter at cruise speeds, definitely holds temperature well and is noticably more economical.

Had to give the brakes a fairly hefty shove after someone pulled out in front of me, and this time I'm glad the car pulled up in a straight line. Last hard stop it grabbed to the left until I pulled off the brake and reapplied pressure.

 

Tried opening the throttle up a bit and well, it makes it get louder. Doesn't really add much speed. I guess I'll not be doing that much, then.

 

Phil

[hairnet]

10 mpg

If you cared then it wouldn't be sat on the driveway

coolest car on the block?

[PhilA]

Found out why the throttle pump wasn't working; the leather seal on the pump shaft had dried out and wasn't making contact with the bore. Now it is and has been pulled into flexibility again, held out by the spring.

Mechanical monkey approves

[Noel Tidybeard]

whilst you are poncing about with you camera you owe it to yourself to do a remote start on that durty slag of a dodge 😁😉

[PhilA]

  On 10/10/2020 at 11:41, Noel Tidybeard said:

whilst you are poncing about with you camera you owe it to yourself to do a remote start on that durty slag of a dodge 😁😉

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I nearly did. Yesterday while working on the carb, I had my keys in my pocket and set off the panic alarm on the Jeep.

Edit: Here you go.

Still a little windy today.

Phil

[PhilA]

Got as far as New Orleans.. lost 2nd gear and it's not wanting to change freely any more. Abandon trip.

Stopped for lunch.

 

Bloody hot, too.

 

Phil

[hairnet]

Take time over lunch

[PhilA]

I did. Thinking about what it's doing, the governor valve is getting stuck again.

It was being difficult before, I think I'm going to try get a replacement.

 

Phil

[PhilA]

As far as we got. New Orleans, this was a stop on the way back by the Huey P. Long bridge.

Gonna pull the governor out and check why it's sticky.

A few things to note:

Suspension is too low for the streets around here.

Engine comes on cam at 2200 RPM and is a lot more rev-happy than I thought.

Fuel economy isn't its forte, did 9.3 mpg over 117 miles.

Floor needs sealing better, there's a few holes that shouldn't be and as the engine compartment is hotter than Hades, the air coming through is like having a hair dryer pointed up your trouser leg.

It would really benefit from aircon

 

Other than that it was okay

Got home under my own steam (with no steam additional).

 

Phil

[hairnet]

12 normal mpg

Two bucks a gallon doh

[PhilA]

That's not a bad lineup. It's hardly using any oil (in about 140 miles it's used maybe 1/4 a pint) and some of that was short runs. It's not using any coolant at all. 

Engine appears to be in fine fettle. It just doesn't like getting hot. I think the carburetor needs a heat shield to protect it from the exhaust manifold.

 

Phil

[Madman Of The People]

What are the chances of converting to an aftermarket throttle body injection system and electronic ignition?  Seems to me ditching the finicky carb and old fashioned distributor would cure the ills you are experiencing.  How about a retrofit aircon setup?  Are either of these a realistic proposition with a car like this?

I know you'll lose concours points for originality but the end result would be a more comfortable, reliable, and usable car.

I've done the classic car ownership thing before and I'd like to do it again.  However, the older I get, the less willing I am to give up modern creature comforts or reliability.  I don't want to do a full-on restomod,  I want the classic look and feel of a 50's cruiser but I also want a healthy dose of everyday reliability.

Do the mods I suggested above sound feasible?

 

[PhilA]

Yes, TBI and EI are both possible though the engine will always suffer from charge robbing because the intakes are siamesed.

It is however a viable proposition, and one that I had been thinking about.

It's only finicky in heavy traffic and that's because the air flow through the engine bay is currently not as designed.

I've resolved the vaporization issue, that was the engine running too hot because the ignition timing was off.

This should be remedied with the addition of the correct heat shield.

What varies from this engine compartment to modern ones is the sheer volume of air being moved through. The fan on this car draws such a massive amount of air though at road speed that the temperature is moderated regardless. However, at idle it does need a certain degree of engineering to draw the hottest air out and that's the second function of the heat shield, to cause low speed airflow to pass where it's most effective.

There will always be heat soak but this was a reasonably good design but everything needs to be correctly in place for it to work, particularly with modern fuel.

 

So yes, fuel injection is an option which would realize a degree of reliability to this car that was never seen before, particularly with closed loop operation, electronic ignition that can map and detect knock and adjust to compensate but I actually enjoy it for it's fifties simplicity, coupled with the rather belt-and-braces approach the car has.

GM didn't get where they were by building junk. It was built to a price (but that price was moderately high because of post-war boom and subsidy), simple and built on tried and tested principle. There is very little Earth-shattering in terms of principles on the car, what they did was make them in a way they were affordable. 

 

So yeah, I may experiment with fuel injection should the time come; for now I'm going to try reinstate the original design pieces- because believe me, if they weren't needed, they weren't fitted. 

 

Phil

[PhilA]

Sent an email to the transmission place this morning, there's 2 part numbers for the governor so I've made inquiry about that.

[Talbot]

  On 10/10/2020 at 20:33, PhilA said:

Fuel economy isn't its forte, did 9.3 mpg over 117 miles.

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Tea/monitor interface there.

Really??  9.3MPG?  Even in real gallons that's still only 11.4mpg.

That cannot be running right, surely?

[Rocket88]

  On 12/10/2020 at 15:39, Talbot said:

Tea/monitor interface there.

Really??  9.3MPG?  Even in real gallons that's still only 11.4mpg.

That cannot be running right, surely?

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About right for a big flat head.............Mate's V8 Pilot struggled to do more than 12

[PhilA]

Back when the car was built, the vehicle was expensive and the fuel was cheap. 10mpg wasn't seen as an issue, because the engine was smooth running.

A lot of that is down to the rear axle ratio. If I can find a higher ratio rear end it should improve to 11-13 on the highway.

The main reason for it being that low at the weekend was high speed running. The engine was at 60-75% of its maximum RPM limit for most of the journey.

I think for now though adjusting the timing will help. The plugs show the mixture is pretty good.

 

Phil

[hairnet]

its called fun juice :D

can we go to folsom again (please)

 

[PhilA]

  On 12/10/2020 at 16:29, hairnet said:

its called fun juice

can we go to folsom again (please)

 

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They cancelled Folsom this year, sadly.

[PhilA]

Tried a method my father used for setting the car to to the fuel and weather.

Warm it up, then set the ignition for the fastest idle, then the mixture, ignition, mixture.. until you hit the sweet spot.

I'll see how that drives once I fix the gearbox, looks to be about 15 degrees advance, compared to the book 10.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

  On 12/10/2020 at 15:39, Talbot said:

Tea/monitor interface there.

Really??  9.3MPG?  Even in real gallons that's still only 11.4mpg.

That cannot be running right, surely?

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Shush you...My Jag just about manages 13!

[PhilA]

  On 13/10/2020 at 00:21, Zelandeth said:

Shush you...My Jag just about manages 13!

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Refinement costs money.

[PhilA]

Jacked the car up tonight and used the oldest tool I have to try and fix the gearbox. Occam's Razor.

I had been messing about with the carb linkage and didn't correctly adjust the gearbox modulator shaft. It was set all kinds of wrong.

So I've adjusted it back up and added a spring to the lower lever arm where it should have one and now, cold, it's changing gears very smoothly.

I'll have to get it all hot again to see if the problem resurfaces.

Phil

[PhilA]

When cold it's smooth smooth smooth.

 

Hot, the governor sticks.

 

Phil

[2flags]

I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of the gearbox problem. As to the fuel consumption, well, it's a toy. Toys can be expensive to play with. My Landrover is the same. 

[groovylee]

  On 09/10/2020 at 22:44, PhilA said:

Found out why the throttle pump wasn't working; the leather seal on the pump shaft had dried out and wasn't making contact with the bore. Now it is and has been pulled into flexibility again, held out by the spring.

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neatsfoot oil is supposed to be good for those.  the GPA lantern boys swear by it for the leather pump cups

[PhilA]

Just ordered a governor and a new side pan gasket. 

 

CCTV from last night. Nothing from under the car because oily and awkward.

 

Should be able to get on with that midway through next week.

Fuel economy is improved a bit with timing adjustment. Carburetor heat shield is on the way.

Phil