Project Vent Your VAG Hatred Here!

[Dick Cheeseburger]

B5 and B6 Avants are cracking cars, end of. I've owned two B5s, two B6s and a B7 which is basically a B6 wearing a wig. Excellent load capacity, bombproof diesel lumps which are good for 200k, well put together and generally lovely cars. Audi quality went downhill afterwards - keep looking after yours and she'll look after you!

[Liggle]

Other than the torque of a PD lump I can't see how anyone enjoys driving those A4's, utterly soulless to drive. Great, economical 'an car' though. My B7 Avant seemed a great option to learn to tow in but within a couple of days of owning it I knew it'd be gone very quickly, had it about 4 weeks. 

[Lacquer Peel]

Bonny car. 

[abelw44]

3 hours ago, Liggle said:

Other than the torque of a PD lump I can't see how anyone enjoys driving those A4's, utterly soulless to drive. Great, economical 'an car' though. My B7 Avant seemed a great option to learn to tow in but within a couple of days of owning it I knew it'd be gone very quickly, had it about 4 weeks. 

Clearly I must be an utterly soulless person! Each to their own, as they say... 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

2 minutes ago, abelw44 said:

Each to their own, as they say... 

Totally agree. The haters are in the minority tbf. Late 90s/early 00s derv Audi are cracking cars. 

[Liggle]

33 minutes ago, abelw44 said:

Clearly I must be an utterly soulless person! Each to their own, as they say... 

Maybe I took the thread title too literally 😬 

[Sham]

Well, if I may join the VAG TDi love fest...

Octavia wagon MK2 with the newer CR 1.6. love it. All the car anyone could ever need, and at 11 years and 117k it feels, and looks brand new. 

 

In fact, I'm kicking myself a bit that it took me so long to dismiss my misconceptions.

[sierraman]

I liked the old Passat, don’t know the B whatever number but I’d describe it as the jelly mould one, had them with a job I had years and years ago, maybe 2005-6. Then one day the long thin Passat arrived, it was one of the very first in the country and I drove it to Wales and back. I can distinctly remember the disappointment in the way it drove and the way it was built. It was and is utter crap.

I think that’s where the quality slid with VW, but try getting anyone to admit to them being not much more than at best, very average quality is hard work. On the other hand I went in a colleagues very tatty Octavia last week and quite liked it. But the modern Passat/Golf etc represents everything in my eyes wrong with the way of the world today. You don’t have to be actually very good at things to get anywhere, you just need to be able to bullshit your way though things. A drive to look successful rather than actually being successful. Some years ago if you had a new Mk2 Golf you’d done well, paradoxically these days in a new Golf there’s likely a baggie in the glovebox. 

[Lacquer Peel]

Mk2 Golfs were shite too. 

[SiC]

6 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

B5 and B6 Avants are cracking cars, end of. I've owned two B5s, two B6s and a B7 which is basically a B6 wearing a wig. Excellent load capacity, bombproof diesel lumps which are good for 200k, well put together and generally lovely cars. Audi quality went downhill afterwards - keep looking after yours and she'll look after you!

Oh aye completely went down hill. 

This was last month. Now 207k plus and counting while being over 11 years old and almost completely original.

Only things changed from nearly brand new (i.e. ~5k miles when my parents got it) are both front wheel bearings, clutch, gearbox input shaft bearing (early under warranty), fuel pressure valve, Thermostat, two cambelts + water pumps, boot struts and lots of oil+filters+tyres+pads/discs. Hardly anything of concern for a German car (admittedly a Japanese list would be smaller). Last MOT was it's first ever failure with a rear spring gone - not bad considering the miles they had done. I drive it hard, it isn't pampered and stuff gets lobbed into it all the time. Just serviced regularly and on time.

Engine lump, turbo, DPF, EGR, injectors, fuel pump, starter, alternator and everything else related to the engine untouched. Never been cleaned, removed or altered. Nothing replaced in the interior or its electronics either. Even the Stop/Start AGM battery is original. 

These generation longitudinal 2.0CR are far superior to the rattly, noisy and smoky PD that are raved about. The only good thing on the PD is the fuel economy is better. However the later revisions of the 2.0CR in the B8 improved their fuel economy.

Mines not an anomaly. Plenty of high mileage exampled around for sale and you'll struggle to find one as spares and repairs. 

[Bitzer]

The only reason for me to buy B6 A4 would be the memory of my wife´s LA auntie, who died (untreated cancer, thank you, Land of Free) shortly after we spent great holidays driving the car through California/Colorado/Arizona. She was mightily proud she had the German shite and their house mortgage paid. And then she died, because her medical insurance did not cover a follow-up or another surgery.

Land of Opportunities, my arse.

[Soundwave]

No VAG hate here, my modern is a Skudder Fabia. 1.0 TSi, great on fuel and pretty competent when it comes to keeping up with traffic. Has plenty of kit for such a small car, feels bigger than it is, and I plan on keeping it for ages. Its quality probably isn't much different to anything else really, probably on a par with a comparable Fiesta or Corsa.

[Barry Cade]

I used to be a huge VAG fanboi..

2 mk1 Jettas

2 Polo coupe S

1 Polo Mk1 GLS

1 Polo 1.3 Formel E

3 Mk2 Sciroccos

1 mk1 Golf

2 Passat GL5 estates 

2 Passat 1.8 estates

1 Santana GL5

3 Audi 80 Sports

1 Audi 90CD

1 Audi 100 GL5E

 

Then an Audi A4... never owned another Audi again.. then  a Polo 1.0 6N2. Never owned a VW since.. Daughter would not drive anything but a VW when she got her licence.. got  MK4 Golf 1.4 16v.. it died after 2 weeks.

. That's on a personal level. Work wise... they've interrupted many an evening, or my tea too many times to consider them to be very far from the bottom of my league tables of "would buy again" 

 

Proper VWs...

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

36 minutes ago, SiC said:

Oh aye completely went down hill. 

This was last month. Now 207k plus and counting while being over 11 years old and almost completely original.

Only things changed from nearly brand new (i.e. ~5k miles when my parents got it) are both front wheel bearings, clutch, gearbox input shaft bearing (early under warranty), fuel pressure valve, two cambelts + water pumps, boot struts and lots of oil+filters+tyres+pads/discs. Last MOT was it's first ever failure with a rear spring gone - not bad considering the miles they had done. I drive it hard, it isn't pampered and stuff gets lobbed into it all the time. Just serviced regularly and on time.

Engine lump, turbo, DPF, EGR, injectors, fuel pump, starter, alternator and everything else related to the engine untouched. Never been cleaned, removed or altered. Nothing replaced in the interior or its electronics either. Even the Stop/Start AGM battery is original. 

These generation longitudinal 2.0CR are far superior to the rattly, noisy and smoky PD that are raved about. The only good thing on the PD is the fuel economy is better. However the later revisions of the 2.0CR in the B8 improved their fuel economy.

Mines not an anomaly. Plenty of high mileage exampled around for sale and you'll struggle to find one as spares and repairs. 

I couldn't fault the numerous PDs I've owned. I liked their performance, 50mpg minimum, lack of oil burning and bombproof reliability.

Every single one of them.

If I had to buy an older secondhand Audi tomorrow, I'd be trawling the ads for a tidy B6 or 1.9 tdi engined B7 straight away. 

The newer 2.0 CR in my fiancée's A3 was dogshite in contrast, despite being relatively low mileage, one previous owner from new, FSH and well generally well maintained. It used oil, wasn't as good with the MPGs as the older PDs, developed DPF issues despite regular longer journeys, started to let fumes into the cabin, required turbo actuator replacement because the crappy plastic linkage gave up the ghost,  leaked water into the rear of the cabin through the failing gaskets under the genuine Audi roofbars, had central locking issues and was generally a headache. 

There was one thing I liked about it though. It gave me the opportunity to move away from the brand and realise how much better the equivalent BMW are. 

 

[sierraman]

BMW were no better. 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Almost five years of running our 2007 E91. Basic servicing, tyres and that's your lot. No other bills. Pulls like a train, no DPF to have issues, supremely comfortable, excellent build quality and ultra reliable. It's just breezed 152k, not that you'd know it.

Fantastic car. 

[sierraman]

Just now, Dick Longbridge said:

Almost five years of running our 2007 E91. Basic servicing, tyres and that's your lot. No other bills. Pulls like a train, no DPF to have issues, supremely comfortable, excellent build quality and ultra reliable. It's just breezed 152k, not that you'd know it.

Fantastic car. 

Would you like a medal? 🤣

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Just now, sierraman said:

Would you like a medal? 🤣

If it meant not owning a modern VAG, yes! 

[SiC]

6 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

2.0 CR in my fiancée's A3

Lalalala transverse group A5 platform. 

Completely different setup, ancillaries positioning and many different parts. They don't even share the same turbo. The MLB platform in the A4/A5 B8 is a complete different generation to your fiancée A3.

That's equivalent as saying that ALL BMWs are shit, right from the 1-series to 7-series because the R56 shit themselves in spectacular ways.

9 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

much better the equivalent BMW are

🤣

They're all shit compared to vast majority of Japanese products for dependability and longevity. Just nicer inside and better NVH. 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

1 minute ago, SiC said:

Lalalala transverse group A5 platform. 

Completely different setup, ancillaries positioning and many different parts. They don't even share the same turbo. The MLB platform in the A4/A5 B8 is a complete different generation to your fiancée A3.

That's equivalent as saying that ALL BMWs are shit, right from the 1-series to 7-series because the R56 shit themselves in spectacular ways.

🤣

They're all shit compared to vast majority of Japanese products for dependability and longevity. Just nicer inside and better NVH. 

I'll stick with the BMW thanks 😅

[SiC]

5 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

no DPF

As I said, 207k without the DPF ever been touched on our A4. The last 60k has been in stop/start city traffic and 20mph limits. Close coupled DPFs will quite happily regenerate at those speeds. 

Designed in properly, rather than an additional afterthought makes them far less an issue. Basically anything designed after late 00s should have then properly located and far less of a problem. 

[SiC]

Anyway. Bought this the other day as a cheap stopgap when the Boxster split its rear plastic roof window and the Bini clutch slipped (10hr job - garbage BMW ease of repair design in that). For 400 quid vehicle it's surprisingly comfortable, easy to drive, pretty much rattle free and quiet.

Absolute porridge - boring and dull. But that's exactly what the target market is after. A bit like my neighbours car in the background of this photo.

 

This particular example is exceptionally clean underneath. Virtually no visible rust and hardly even any mud. Given the cleanness and unclouded headlights, I reckon it's spent a good part of its life garaged.

 

[Rod/b]

Dare I say… RoFFLe?

[warch]

I don’t hate VAG products by any means I just dislike the rather outdated conception that some people have that their products are better made than lesser cars like Fords or Vauxhalls.

I did have a Mk5 Golf once, that was fucking shit, cost thousands in repairs and left my ownership with the dash lit up like it was Christmas and an issue with the fuel relay constantly burning out which I temporarily repaired with a folded over piece of card.

I recently had 310bhps worth of Golf R sitting on my drive. My mate who does my welding brought it over to change the (appropriately named) front bottom arms. One side came off ok, the other side suffered a snapped bolt in the subframe then a snapped subframe trying to wiggle the arm out. Luckily the alloy subframe  came in three parts so removing the borked section was a option and we didn’t have to replace the entire sodding thing. Not great on a fairly new and quite expensive car.
 

 

 

 

 

[Sham]

I agree about the Golf. I had a 2010 vintage one when nearly new as a loan car, same age and platform as my Skoda. It was utter crap. Cheaply made and poorly designed. By contrast, I genuinely can't think of a bad thing about my car. It doesn't use oil, which is a common CR complaint and it's very well put together. Admittedly it did need a dmf and clutch at just over 110k - but that wasn't a bad job looking at the bill included when I bought the car.

[warch]

18 minutes ago, Sham said:

I agree about the Golf. I had a 2010 vintage one when nearly new as a loan car, same age and platform as my Skoda. It was utter crap. Cheaply made and poorly designed. By contrast, I genuinely can't think of a bad thing about my car. It doesn't use oil, which is a common CR complaint and it's very well put together. Admittedly it did need a dmf and clutch at just over 110k - but that wasn't a bad job looking at the bill included when I bought the car.

It might be an issue with certain cars then. I have to say my neighbour across the road has an old (07) plate diesel Skoda and that looks in much better condition than my Golf ever did. He isn't mechanically minded so he normally taps me up for (free) roadside assistance, but the only issue I can remember with it was a flat battery which is neither here nor there. 

The worst thing on my Golf was the quality of the running gear and fasteners underneath. The large torx bolts holding the strut to the hub assembly were removed with a cold chisel, the slots for the bits having long since crumbled away. The ABS rings were horrible, it was amazing they functioned as long as they did before they disintegrated. My brother's A3 was nearly as bad.

By comparison my Nissan I own now (2 years younger) still looks fairly new underneath, there is no panel corrosion at all and everything unbolts using the conventional methods. 

[Lacquer Peel]

16 hours ago, DavidB said:

My A3 is now on 206000 miles and it's showing no signs of ever dying. I've spent about 1.5k in the past year on it, it feels and drives like a new car.

 

You would hope so after spending 1.5k making it right. 

[sierraman]

Reminds me of when you used to get the archetypical MGB owner that would go ‘it’s done over 500 trouble free miles since the last engine rebuild apart from a bit of carb trouble last week’. 

[TrabbieRonnie]

Think my view is skewed...

I have always been a Japanese car fan really, started with a Liteace 4wd, the mighty Surf, Hiace, my son's 323 of this parish (not all actual 'cars' I admit!). 

However, a long time ago we bought an old A6 estate at auction (I couldn't justify the S8 in the same auction...), first year of it not being called a 100 I think, on an N plate.  1.8 petrol, not fast but not slow either, great drive and good looking.  Not great at keeping out the water, sealant had gone in that weird Audi scuttle area.  However, easily fixed, taught me a lot, and left a lasting affection.

Many Audi free years then passed until the old 80 Coupe's unexpected arrival (beautifully built car), and recently my £1500 A8. 

The 8 has required a bit of work (wheel bearings, bushes etc.), and likes to throw a light at you now and again(!), but in terms of the body and interior it is beautifully built (in aluminium of course) and just so great to drive.  I think they only built the MK2 with the old 3.7 V8 for the first couple of years, but it's a bloody peach, and the cambelt is at the right end!  The fuel tank and exhausts are stainless, I am planning on keeping it until it is outlawed...

Neither of these Audi's are very typical of modern VAG though I suppose, so as I say my view is perhaps skewed.

[junkyarddog]

11 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Mk2 Golfs were shite too. 

Agreed,I had one as a daily for over 5 years and it always needed attention.

Replaced it with a Japanese made motor that just got on with being a car.

Still have the Golf though🤪

And it's still a diva,but I'm more tolerant of it now seeing as it's over 30🤣