Elderly Merc Estates, What Should I Know?

[Shirley Knott]

Right, I've gone nearly 3 months without buying a car (A personal record for me) 

 

Having initially set myself a 'want list' of an estate, either in Octavia/Volvo/Rover 75 flavour, I've thus far spectacularly failed to bring home the bacon... With the money from my last car sale (Ropey Passat Highline) now frankly burning a hole in my pocket I've decided the only sensible thing to do is to include offerings from Mercedes in my hit list....

 

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for these things. In the past I've shied away because of image/expensive parts, but as I edge ever closer to 'proper' middle age I've decided the time is right and the conditions are now perfect.

 

I like both C and E class models, unfortunately I know very little about either. In short, what should I be aware of and what's the best option to minimse the risk of financial insolvency/misery/failure?

 

* Rust: I know these things rust. Which models are best to avoid this? Is it mostly surface stuff or...? I've been checking MOT history of prospective steeds, lots of them show some real horrors

 

* Automatics: I've never driven one before but I'm lead to believe this is the way to go and avoiding manual options is the way forward.

 

* Cost of maintenance/parts: Is one of these things likely to ruin/bankrupt me in short order?

 

* I'd thought petrol rather than dizzle on the basis of only planning to do 2-3K a year and the possibility of finding a lower mileage example more cheaply, also less potential for trouble I would have thought?

 

So far I've cast a net with a 100 mile radius and I'm turning up stuff like this...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-300TE-1988-Auto-One-family-owner-5-months-MOT-Recent-Mercedes-service/222939496224?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3Df7bff924b2a14ef09cd79ffd58344ddf%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D183183225487%26itm%3D222939496224&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Acab2557f-4784-11e8-b5dd-74dbd1809d33%7Cparentrq%3Af63d36bc1620a9c4decf310efff9e32e%7Ciid%3A1

 

and this...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-W124-E220-auto-146k-Genuine-Miles/273162211064?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3Df7bff924b2a14ef09cd79ffd58344ddf%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D183183225487%26itm%3D273162211064&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Acab2557f-4784-11e8-b5dd-74dbd1809d33%7Cparentrq%3Af63d36bc1620a9c4decf310efff9e32e%7Ciid%3A1

 

and even slightly newer stuff like this...

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804105398910?make=MERCEDES-BENZ&body-type=Estate&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=dh46au&sort=price-asc&radius=100&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&page=1

 

Any advice/musings/wisdom will be gratefully received

[BorniteIdentity]

In the past I've shied away because of image/expensive parts, 

 

* Cost of maintenance/parts: Is one of these things likely to ruin/bankrupt me in short order?

 

 

I've had a w124 (1989 E Class Saloon) - a w202 (C Class) and 2 w201s (190s)

 

Time and time again the cheapest place for parts is MB themselves.  Their service is exceptional - I wanted a few hoses and they had them there and then (I walked in off the street).  Some sound insulation for under the bonnet was met with profuse apologies that they didn't have any, but could get some from Germany.  It took 3 days to arrive.

 

I would buy a car that's been well maintained but looks a bit shabby.  They do rust, but it's nearly always cosmetic.  The steel is thick (just shut a door to hear that deep thud).

 

Good lucK!

[rantingYoof]

1998 or so to 2002 E-Classes especially rotted in every way imaginable, from the inside out, too. Didn't the brake lines also corrode to the point of brake failure being slightly more common than one would like?

 

None of that's important anyway; what you need to do is find an E430 estate and buy it.

[Dan the van]

Beware of the electronic ignition switch on the post 97 W210's with the infrared key.When it fails( and they often do),hideously expensive to do and renders car immovable because of the electronic steering lock.More wiring than a 747.Switch has to come from Mercedes(coded to the car).Takes 2 mins to change but no known repair available(every system runs through it,very complex)and secondhand not an option as all other electrickery has to come from the doner car.£500ish for switch plus hour and a half on Star to transfer the data so around £650.On a car that is,in my case,worth £400.Which is why it's been mouldering in my yard for the last 4 years.Was great when it worked tho',brilliant engine(E320).And the E430 is even better and no more expensive on fuel.Mine did 30 mpg on a run.

[BorniteIdentity]

That first w124 looks delightful.  If it's the 12v 300 (which i'm 99% certain it is) it's a proper old slogger, and makes a hell raising wolf cry when you get the rev counter past half way.

[dome]

W124s are very good by don't get caught up in the "best car ever made" crap that floats around them. They do rust. Check rear subframes, that's what did for mine. However, if you find a good one it'll be a pleasure and will hold it's value. 

 

W210s are not quite as good, but rustier. 

[Shirley Knott]

I've had a w124 (1989 E Class Saloon) - a w202 (C Class) and 2 w201s (190s)

 

Time and time again the cheapest place for parts is MB themselves.  Their service is exceptional - I wanted a few hoses and they had them there and then (I walked in off the street).  Some sound insulation for under the bonnet was met with profuse apologies that they didn't have any, but could get some from Germany.  It took 3 days to arrive.

 

I would buy a car that's been well maintained but looks a bit shabby.  They do rust, but it's nearly always cosmetic.  The steel is thick (just shut a door to hear that deep thud).

 

Good lucK!

 

Thanks, sounds like you've had a few! Good intel RE parts direct from the stealer

 

 

1998 or so to 2002 E-Classes especially rotted in every way imaginable, from the inside out, too. Didn't the brake lines also corrode to the point of brake failure being slightly more common than one would like?

 

None of that's important anyway; what you need to do is find an E430 estate and buy it.

 

 

 

Much as that does sound like lots of fun, as a serial buyer of MX5's in my younger days I now feel like I've done my time with cars that rot from the inside out. Will give them a swerve, cheers.

 

 

Beware of the electronic ignition switch on the post 97 W210's with the infrared key.When it fails( and they often do),hideously expensive to do and renders car immovable because of the electronic steering lock.More wiring than a 747.Switch has to come from Mercedes(coded to the car).Takes 2 mins to change but no known repair available(every system runs through it,very complex)and secondhand not an option as all other electrickery has to come from the doner car.£500ish for switch plus hour and a half on Star to transfer the data so around £650.On a car that is,in my case,worth £400.Which is why it's been mouldering in my yard for the last 4 years.Was great when it worked tho',brilliant engine(E320).And the E430 is even better and no more expensive on fuel.Mine did 30 mpg on a run.

 

Yikes! Another nail in the W210 coffin then... That, coupled with rotting from the inside out makes means I'll probably avoid 96-2002 Eclass models as a blanket policy, ta.

 

 

That first w124 looks delightful.  If it's the 12v 300 (which i'm 99% certain it is) it's a proper old slogger, and makes a hell raising wolf cry when you get the rev counter past half way.

 

Yes, it does look nice, but "Offside Rear Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering" on the MOT back in 2012 sounds ominous... 250k is pretty high mileage too

 

To make matters worse that one ends on Friday night, the car's just over 100 miles away so it would involve bidding/buying without viewing... I appreciate this is the Autoshite way, but having done  this a couple of times in the past I've learned that whilst sometimes it all works out well, other times the consequences can be tragic

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Show me a Mercedes, and I'll show you a Volvo that's superior is just about every way. The 124 rots like a bastard, good four cyl M111 engines but the engine looms go brittle with age on these as well as more commonly the E280.

 

W124 - no, a 740 is much better. 760's are rare but not worth a lot. 850 2.5's are lovely.

 

W210 - ignore the cosmetics but do check for rotten front spring cups. And a V70 is, again, a much better car. Five pot petrol manual, a car for life pretty much. They just do not rot, and the 5 pot is a superb engine. Krauts can only dream of building a car as well as the Swedes.

 

Not a fan of Mercs.

[Shirley Knott]

a V70 is, again, a much better car. Five pot petrol manual, a car for life pretty much. They just do not rot, and the 5 pot is a superb engine. Krauts can only dream of building a car as well as the Swedes.

 

I do like the V70's, but alas tales of electrical woes and auto box disasters put me off slightly... Manual variants seem to be pretty rare?

 

The appeal of the Mercs has arisen on the basis of 'man maths' on my part... 

 

Decent chain engines mean avoiding having to spend time looking for a car with a recent belt change, or stumping the £200-300 bill to get it done straight after purchase. Also the supposedly very reliable Merc auto boxes mean avoiding the potential expense of imminent clutch replacement that a manual V70 might require.

 

All that being said things like this do look quite tempting...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-VOLVO-V70-2-4-SE-10V-5D-140-BHP/163002950921?hash=item25f3bba509:g:kncAAOSw9M5a1TnZ

 

Am I getting this all wrong?

[BorniteIdentity]

Show me a Mercedes, and I'll show you a Volvo that's superior is just about every way.

 

You are probably right.

 

But the idiosyncrasies that each car has in my fleet is what endears them to me.  

[lesapandre]

To add. The early W124's seem better built - the ones before they recessed the radiator grille - they don't have the funny wiring. Diesels are very hard to find that are not now high miles, flogged to death or expensive. The next model E-Class are much cheaper and there appear to be bargins but as set out above are more trouble-some. 

[Junkman]

I've had a w124 (1989 E Class Saloon) - a w202 (C Class) and 2 w201s (190s)

 

 

I'm so sorry. Honestly. You really do deserve a proper car eventually.

[AMC Rebel]

 

.

[sierraman]

Wife's grandparents had a 300D, looked a lovely car, the servo went on it and it was ££££ to put right so off it went.

 

They seem to survive well in Spain but as others have said go for a Volvo.

[Talbot]

I'm currrently running a 1996/7 W210 estate, and they are a cavern. The E300 engine is sought after for absurd tuning capabilities and running on anything burnable, so they tend to have a little bit of a price premium, but if you're only planning on a few thousand miles a year, then a V8 petrol is clearly the way to go. E430's turn up on a moderately regular basis on ebay etc, and as they are expensive to run are often low miles. Very rarely you find AMG E55 estate models for sale.. I've seen just one, but they are a properly fast car.

 

W124s do look better than the bug-eye W210, but the W210 is a better car overall. The locking system commented on above is generally reliable, and although the front wings can and do rot out in fairly spectacular style, the rest of the car is no worse than anything else 20+ years old. Mine has been utterly abused from new, and although has rust and rot in it, it's still better than the vast majority of vehicles from the same era. I've had to put one patch on the floor in my ownership, and that was caused by the the underseal being ripped off by grounding it.

 

I despise auto boxes, but the one in the W210 (5g-tronic) is a good one, and the integration between the engine management, gearbox management, cruise control and speed limit drive works remarkably well. I only have to use "manual" mode when towing something really rather heavy.

 

W124 or W210, it almost matters not, are both good cars. Well designed, solid to drive and generally not that hard to maintain. Specification and equipment levels vary wildly, so do some research first.

 

Edit:

 

Feeling brave?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-W123-230TE-Classic-Car-Spares-Or-Repair-1981/282935790278?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3D1b3f56786efb444c95c629f0df096b0d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D202294940889%26itm%3D282935790278&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

Or this could potentially be a very cheap fix. With MOT and cleaned up etc. these seem to make about £2k these days, even with over 200k on the clock:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MERCEDES-E300D-SPARES-OR-REPAIR/263625100162?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3D1e9444d052584635b284428c3d7d1daf%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D222939496224%26itm%3D263625100162&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[AMC Rebel]

.

[Shirley Knott]

My late ex father-in-law had a 300D - 1991 J 7 seater.  It was by some margin one of the slowest accelerating things I've ever driven with the NA 5 cylinder engine.  It had great ride quality but to quote Jalopy "concrete seats and a two foot diameter steering wheel".  It also had the single multifunction stalk on the right hand side.  On the whole, not great, and certainly not great value for the cost. I know the one he had is long gone, too.

 

Sounds great

 

 

 

They seem to survive well in Spain but as others have said go for a Volvo.

 

That may well still happen TBH.

 

 

Feeling brave?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-W123-230TE-Classic-Car-Spares-Or-Repair-1981/282935790278?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3D1b3f56786efb444c95c629f0df096b0d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D202294940889%26itm%3D282935790278&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

 

 

Not that brave 

 

 

NB - take care over 300Ds the later ones were straight six turbo and much better than the 91 model I mentioned - not sure when they changed.

 

Food for thought, thanks

 

Also, what do we think about the newer W203's? These seem to have dropped into the sub £1k category and M271's examples aside perhaps offer a safer bet?

[Talbot]

Fast car. Very fast car:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mercedes-e430-vath-conversion-4-7-litre-330hp-very-rare-german-tuning-company/273172470326?hash=item3f9a591a36:g:a0EAAOSwubFaiAxN

[MorrisItalSLX]

W123 and W124 all the way, steer clear of the C Class and the post W124 E Class unless you want unreliability and extra rust.

 

*Repeat of what has already been said*

 

If you can find a decent W123 then snap it up, fantastic old busses. W124s are also a very good shout, both are still very high on my future shite to-do list.

[Bobthebeard]

Not entirely sure that I get the Volvo thing. Never had one. Bloke across the road has one, an 03 convertible, not sure what model.

He is often found underneath/under the bonnet swearing and asking to borrow tools.

[iainrcz]

My dad had a w124 300 estate auto.

Silver over dark grey, built like a bomb shelter.

[Dirk Diggler]

NB - take care over 300Ds the later ones were straight six turbo and much better than the 91 model I mentioned - not sure when they changed.

There was no factory rhd 124 turbo diesel iirc; om606 went 24v with the facelift 124, TD started in 1997, early 210s had the previous 24v non turbo (which makes a lovely noise but isn't by any stretch fast) Early C classes (94-97) fare much better than later ones rust wise; but only available with the non turbo 2.5 engine

 

Buy a v70 / 850

[BorniteIdentity]

There was no factory rhd 124 turbo diesel iirc; om606 went 24v with the facelift 124, TD started in 1997, early 210s had the previous 24v non turbo (which makes a lovely noise but isn't by any stretch fast) Early C classes (94-97) fare much better than later ones rust wise; but only available with the non turbo 2.5 engine

 

Buy a v70 / 850

 

The plumbing for the turbo fouls the steering box from memory with the W124 - so you can't get a right hooking turbodiesel.  If you want a blower, you need to 'upgrade' to the w210.

 

There was a 1 owner, LHD TD W124 for sale near me a few years back.  It was EIGHT THOUSAND POUNDS.  It sold within a month. 

[Junkman]

Can someone explain to me what relevance someone's Grandparents' experiences have for buying a clapped out, rusted, old Mercedes shite heap today?

[lesapandre]

W123 and W124 all the way, steer clear of the C Class and the post W124 E Class unless you want unreliability and extra rust.

 

*Repeat of what has already been said*

 

If you can find a decent W123 then snap it up, fantastic old busses. W124s are also a very good shout, both are still very high on my future shite to-do list.

Thought there are some very cheap later E Class ( we are talking low 100's)  which might be worth a punt and looked on as useful until something expensive goes wrong then junk. The diesels are cheap compared to the W124.

[MorrisItalSLX]

Thought there are some very cheap later E Class ( we are talking low 100's)  which might be worth a punt and looked on as useful until something expensive goes wrong then junk. The diesels are cheap compared to the W124.

 

They are cheap for a reason...

[sierraman]

Something like a 2.4 S80 might be a much better car. Not too bad on the juice either apparently.

[rml2345]

What sort of Mercedes estate? A Volvo one. There's usually plenty of well maintained examples out there for reasonable coin as they attract conscientious long term owners. Early 940s are a good shout as they feel like 740s and use the older manual gearboxes which are nicer to use than the later M90. The later ones also use Aisin Warner autoboxes which are a bit pants. All are sturdy and cavernous load luggers which should return 30mpg on a run and feel capable of travel to the moon and back without issue. Avoid the 2 litre non turbo though as it's a bit slow.

850s are fantastic too if you can find one without rotten wings. Other rot isn't common on them but wings are a PITA. They make a fabulous noise as well. V70s and 960/V90 are also worth considering if you can find a decent one. As with all older Volvos common issues are well known and usually straightforward with good parts back up.

[BorniteIdentity]

Can someone explain to me what relevance someone's Grandparents' experiences have for buying a clapped out, rusted, old Mercedes shite heap today?

 

You're in a good mood today.  

 

Would you like me to tickle your belly?

[rml2345]

Rover 75 Tourers are alright but getting a decent one for a good price is tricky and 75s suffer from quite a lot of heritage.