Project 1974 MGB GT - The Mustard (Mit) Mobility Scooter - After nearly 7yrs, The End (for me)

[richardthestag]

30 minutes ago, SiC said:

Hmm tempting. On offer at Moss this week with their 6 week's worth of different offers.


https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mg/mgb-c-v8/clutch-gearbox-axle/gearboxes-components/gear-lever-quick-shift-cobalt-443-155.html

I wouldn't have considered it before but now the gearbox has loosened up with use, the throw shouldn't be much heavier. Just less of a reach to the stick, especially nicer thing to have when rifling through the box on twisty roads.

internal use only ?

[wuvvum]

16 hours ago, 1970mgb said:

I will also say that I'm deeply distrustful of the reliability of any mission-critical complex electronics running on the electrical system of a B(or pretty much any other old car). It's quite "dirty" even with modern voltage regulators and the like.

When I bought my BGT the voltage regulator was on its way out, and from time to time it would temporarily shit itself and allow the full output of the alternator straight in to the electrics.  Came in useful once when driving through a rainstorm at night, when the wipers went mental and the sealed beams went thermonuclear, but probably wouldn't do an electronic ignition setup a lot of good.

[SiC]

It's quite "dirty" even with modern voltage regulators and the like.

 

How can it be dirty? Have you made any measurements to even back up that claim?!

 

The fact is, it is almost certainly cleaner electrically than modern car electrical systems. Vast majority of load is resistive and what is inductive is limited to the wiper motor, blower motor, fuel pump and the ignition system. The two motors will be no worse than the many tens of motors on a modern car. Fuel pump will only be a little noisy if a mechanical SU, but that is mostly quenched otherwise the contacts will knacker out. Finally the ignition system is no worse than any other distributor based system - of which happily had ECUs attached to them in the 90s, when semiconductors were a lot less robust than now.

 

Fact is, providing modern electronics are specced properly for automotive systems, they are incredibly durable and reliable.

 

[SiC]

Bit of a catch-up on stuff done.

 

New second hand distributor arrived.

 

Inside doesn't look too bad. No real play I could feel in it at all.

 

Points are "worn"

 

Stripped it right back and cleaned it all out both inside + out. No pictures as I couldn't be arsed to. There's pictures earlier in this thread of a 25d stripped to pieces.

 

I reassembled with plenty of grease on the moving parts. Had to cross reference with another distributor on which way the drive dog went on. I did mark it, but obviously not hard and clearly enough! I'll know soon enough if it get it the wrong way around.

 

Attacked some of the more unsightly marks where the paint is peeling off and rusting underneath. Have I ever said that I'm truly shit with paint? I think I have...

 

Doesn't help the paint isn't a great colour match to what is actually on the body. It matches well on parts that look original paint, but any of the outer parts where its been resprayed before, it's clearly noticeable. However the aim of the game with this is to protect the body so the rust doesn't worsen.

 

Door

 

Chipped off loose paint

 

Sanded

 

Painted

 

Wing near headlamp

 

Sanded

 

Painted. Already been painted before, so feel less guilty about this being messy.

 

The drivers side rear wing has had a bad previous repair before. Looks like it's been caught somehow (garage door catch?) and someone has smothered with filler + paint. Looks shit.

 

Also I caught it the other week when I had the rear wheels off. Underneath the filler is metal. Pretty sure the filler isn't hiding anything nasty, except a dent.

 

Also I did buy this in the end. I'm really looking forward to fitting it and trying it out!

 

I naturally find myself changing by holding the gearstick around mid shaft anyway, so I know it isn't too hard to shift. With my elbow on the arm rest, the stock stick feels far too long and uncomfortable.

 

Right now the car is back in the garage with the Boxster down for a bit. Too nice weather to not have a soft top locked away. It also has a chiller which is looking essential thing with the incoming heat!

[1970mgb]

It's your car-do what you want to even if that means junking stuff that's been keeping these cars running fine for nearly 60 years(for the oldest ones on the road) and putting in electronics.

What you're wanting to do is contrary to what the folks who I actually consider experts on these cars-including John Twist, Dick Moritz and Rick Astley, but have at it. I'm sure 400 miles on your car in two years have taught you at least as much as these guys know.

BTW, I have actually spent time scoping the electrical system on my car, and it's not pretty. Stuff like the fuel pump give you all kinds of fun transients all over the place-I can actually see when the pump on my car is running on the scope regardless of where I connect the probes.

[SiC]

It's your car-do what you want to

Don't worry I will...

[SiC]

Bit of a consolidated update.

I'm running HIF4, mixture setup is rather different and so no nuts to tighten up either.

I think I found the cause of the rough running. Turns out that the clip for the distributor had punched a hole in the cap. Not a massive hole but one big enough for oil and crap to get in. The bit that broke off also got wedged between the body and condenser. No doubt restricting movement when vac advancing.

You can see the hole here.



Naturally the plugs were pretty carboned up.


Put a set of new distributor doctor points, condenser and rotor arm in the replacement second hand distributor. Also had a new QH cap too that is reckoned to be higher quality. That little lot cost me just under 35 quid from Moss. Better bloody be good. I already had bought these bits before cros sent me the collection of bits.


Also tested the vac advance with a red box Chinese vacuum pump. Moved the plate freely and reasonably smoothly. Held pressure too.

Timed up the distributor statically. I find this way with a DMM a bit easier than a test light.


Went for a drive and it's idling better. Idle has actually raised up to around 1000rpm, from ~800rpm. So must be a bit happier and running more efficiently with this distributor that the crappy Chinese unit. No surprise there really - not least as the Chinese unit has a hole in the dizzy cap.

Checked the oil when I got back ... it's nommed it all again.
Weird thing is that when it does, it sits right at the minimum mark?


Finally...

Long stick


Short stick


An idea of size difference


Fits my arm position much better than the original.



Despite it being shorter, it isn't that much harder to shift. But the engaged feels more positive and direct. Not driven it yet though, so we will see.

It does make the gear change feel slightly more modern though. Easy enough to change back if I don't like it though.

[SiC]

Filled up. Last tank worked out as 26mpg. Can't remember if that's good or bad. Will be interesting to see any differences now that this distribution is on.

Went for a blast around the back lanes tonight to try out the gear stick. It's much nicer. The action feels a lot better to my arm. Worth the £67 or so it cost.

Also this happened tonight. Quite a milestone for this little car. I did wonder if it'd even manage it or if the numbers would seize up from lack of use. It's been a long, long time since the thousands digit rolled over last.


Oh and the car has rewarded me, after I put these trinkets on it, by making the high beam flasher on the stalk stop working.

[SiC]

Did a couple of little jobs tonight.

First was to top the diff up. It's always dripped and I've never checked it since I've owned it. Last owner did get it topped up, but that was 2 years ago. So a bit anxious on its level.



Bought this Laser set in the end.


Used the 11mm bit. Bit on the small side but it bit enough to get it undone.


I didn't jack the car up as all my stands are in use on the 1100 and I wanted it level. So it was a bit of a fight to get it undone with me reaching underneath at arms length. Ended up putting the small breaker bar you get in Halfords Pro toolsets and bashed it with a mallet.

Got it undone and topped it up till it leaked out. There is a very slight incline on our drive, so it possibly had a bit more than needed in there. Sure it's fine - it'll leak out anyway.


This is the plug fitting


Used this oil. Moss recommended it as correct for the diff.


I did want to do a full drain, but that'll be easier to get a garage to do on a lift. At the same time I'll get them to replace the gasket and hopefully stop/reduce the leak.

Next up was the plug leads. Nothing inherently wrong with the ones on there. However they've been reconnected so many times that they're a bit looser on the plugs that I like. I have tried squidging the connectors to get a better grip and it seems to have worked. Anyway I bought a new set a while back on a spur of the moment when a Moss offer was on. Old set can go in the boot as spares.


New shiny set. After this picture I did get my label maker out and mark where every lead goes. I kinda remember the firing order now but I find it useful still, especially if I ever have to remove them in earnest.


Naturally I did the obligatory pull of the plugs as I seem to love doing.

Plug 1


Plug 2


Plug 3



Plug 4



They look not too far off to me, except plug 4. I'm hoping it's because that plug lead is the one that always had been the most loose and needed squishing the most often.

I have no intention of touching the mixture now, as they look as good as I'll ever get them. Idle is a tad on the high side with the new distributor (around 1k to 1.1k) but I cba to touch that as it all works just fine.

Then when for a lovely even blast around the back lanes just north of here. Just because...

Absolutely running top notch at the moment now and it feels it. Slight whiff of petrol on occasions, so I might have a quick look over the fuel lines and double check nothing has come loose. Especially those darn fibre gaskets at the pump end.
 

[SiC]

Now bringing up to today...

 

Got back from the Leyland show at Gaydon.

 

Checked the oil level and it was well under minimum. Ended up putting in 700ml to bring it back to max. Only 140miles since I topped it up, so fuck knows where it's gone.

 

I let my father-in-law go driving it. While I was staring at the windscreen, I realised that with the sun behind this label, you can read what it says.

 

 

Filter was changed at 148500, next change at 160000. That solves my dilemma on if it has been around the clock or not.

 

Explains why the oil pressure is a bit on the low side and also why it is pretty rattly on the top end.

 

 

[1970mgb]

What is your compression reading?

 

Chances are that the oil loss is from blow-by. Often times the oil/vapor separator is crapped up and that can cause oil loss especially at higher speeds with marginal rings. A solvent soak on the separator can help things, but ultimately you're better off cutting it open and repacking it with Chore Boy or the like.

Just beware that when you remove it, it's often difficult to find a gasket that fits properly. The best solution I've found from the common suppliers(I've sourced one that fits locally, but they're mum about where they get it) is the MGA gasket that Moss sells, but slathered with lots of Permatex "The Right Stuff" to seal it. Don't even put a torque wrench on the bolt-just snug it up so that it doesn't move and maybe give it an extra quarter turn if that. It doesn't take much more to bend it and cause leaks.

[busmansholiday]

FFS, I'm retired and sorting out the number of cars you have whilst holding down a full time job is fecking amazing!

Oil loss on an MGB?, FFS, it was built into them!!!

[SiC]

 

1 hour ago, busmansholiday said:

FFS, I'm retired and sorting out the number of cars you have whilst holding down a full time job is fecking amazing!

Thankfully because I'm earning and have a good local garage, it's easy to out source some of this work!

 

1 hour ago, busmansholiday said:

Oil loss on an MGB?, FFS, it was built into them!!!

 

This is true, however 700ml in 150miles is possibly a bit on the excessive side. Min to max is a pint (568ml) and it was quite a bit under the min when I got home. It's causing me a bit of concern - especially as I'm not sure where it is going. There is no noticeable oil clouds out of the back.

Went to the show by the motorway but I forgot to check the level at the show. On the way back we went the back roads. I'm suspecting heavy and hard acceleration is what does it.

Not least as I was chasing a MGC out of the show... He was just about pulling away up hill (going by the smoke clouds, he was certainly trying hard) but I easily kept on his tail at the corners. Even though I was keeping to my side of the road and he was cutting them. So yeah, this sort of behaviour possibly doesn't help my oil consumption...

For now, I'll just keep topping it up. Luckily it doesn't have to be emission tested for the MOT. 

 

[Mally]

Get someone to follow you and watch for smoke clouds.

[busmansholiday]

"Went to the show by the motorway but I forgot to check the level at the show"

 

Check the oil level, oh, must do that one day........

 

 

[dozeydustman]

Don't some of these B-series have scroll crankshaft seal? Might be a good place to check and upgrade for a modern type if possible

[SiC]

I believe this age should have a rubber rear main seal. However at the bottom of the clutch house there is a constant dribble of oil. Likewise oil is noticeable by the clutch fork arm. 

I'm just hoping that the clutch housing isn't steadily been filled up with oil! However I'd expect some clutch slippage if this was the case. 

Also it only seems to loose it at any real rate when driven hard with a lot of acceleration. So not sure if the rear main would leak all the time - rather than sporty driving. 

[purplebargeken]

It automatically ensures you have a full oil change on a regular basis. Just need a reminder about the filters....

[1970mgb]

Higher oil loss when driven hard, once again, points to blow by.

I'll ask again-what is your compression in absolute numbers across all 4 cylinders?

Have you done any maintenance to the crankcase ventilation system?

Also, the rear main on all these engines is rubber. It's usually one of those things that you change if you have the engine out, but generally doesn't cause problems otherwise. If it were losing oil at the rate claimed through the rear main, I'd have expected the clutch to to have been glazed over and useless a long time ago-even with only 400 miles on the car.

Bad rings, on the other hand, in my experience will often give low to no oil loss at low-ish RPMs, but then will go nuts once you get over the high 3K range.

[SiC]

No idea on compression, car isn't with me at the moment so I can't check. Father-in-law is running around in it for a bit and then it has to get us to the FoTU.

No maintenance really done on crankcase ventilation. Easy to blow through the vent tube to the carb and can feel it out the rocker cover cap.

[1970mgb]

Do a compression check before you go hunting for other problems.

My gut is that you'll find across the board low that will go up dramatically with oil in the cylinders. That's pretty much a definitive diagnosis for bad rings(as opposed to low compression from a head problem) and there again would also be consistent with the reported oil consumption amounts and behaviors(i.e. higher at higher speeds).

Rings can be done in a weekend without pulling the engine, although if you're going that deep it's not a bad idea to just rebuild the whole thing-it's all in how much time/money you want to spend on it.

[SiC]

No point doing a compression check. If the oil is going anywhere but out the exhaust or dripping out of a fitting, it's going to be internal to the engine. Anything needing work internal to the engine will basically means it's going to get pulled for a rebuild. 

Too many things on it make it not worth doing piece meal repairs on it. Rattly top end, low oil pressure (it's now dropping to just over 40psi on a 70mph motorway run) and now this oil consumption issue.

All a compression test will tell me is that it needs to be fixed internally. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the fourth cylinder that is the problem, with it always having a darker plug.

If it didn't pull well, it'd be prioritised for it to be pulled. However as it does pull well, it's going to continue to be topped up for now. At least until this summer season is out. That is unless it went bang or lost all oil pressure, then it'll be a priority. 

However the Boxster is demanding some love next, so that will have control of the purse strings. Plus the Laguna needs to be put through a test and any remedial work that needs for that. 

[busmansholiday]

When I had my Holbay engined Rapier back in the early 80's, it drank oil for fun. Just kept topping it and changing the filter when I could be arsed.

My Skoda Fabia VRS, 1.4TSI (60 plate, bought new) did the same. Some engines do, some don't. I'd just keep a gallon of Morrisons finest 20/50 in the spare wheel well and just drive it (which is what I do). Worry about it going bang if and when it happens!!!

[SiC]

Thankfully it only needs a visual check for the MOT emissions test! I know for a decent rebuild I'll be looking around a grand and a half. Other cars have greater priority for that money at the moment. 

[1970mgb]

Time for me to step away from this thread for now.

There may be major engine trouble lurking, there may be minor trouble, but there's a general unwillingness to do simple basic diagnostics to try and find it, getting caught up things that aren't really a cause for alarm(40psi oil pressure isn't really low, esp. if the gauge hasn't been verified, plus blow-by could be causing fuel dilution) but a desire to throw money at the car on things like fancy electronics and short shift levers.

10 minutes with a compression gauge would tell a lot more about the health of the engine than time spent swapping fluids or chasing the unattainable perfection in ignition timing...at this point without having doing that you're just guessing that there's major trouble when there may not actually be. A compression test won't tell all, but it's at least a start and given that you're already pulling the plugs after almost every drive, I can't imagine doing one being much of a burden.

[Mally]

19 minutes ago, SiC said:

Thankfully it only needs a visual check for the MOT emissions test! 

What MOT?

[SiC]

9 minutes ago, Mally said:

What MOT?

Haha yes of course it is optional. Having one makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, so I still be having them done. Also it quite satisfying when it does pass!

[Mally]

Not having one makes my wallet warm.

[SiC]

There may be major engine trouble lurking, there may be minor trouble, but there's a general unwillingness to do simple basic diagnostics to try and find it

 

As I've said previously, the car isn't even with me. So I can not do a compression reading.

 

Even if it did, so what? If it's low then the engine is knackered. If it's ok then it's leaking elsewhere and something else on the engine is knackered.

 

Great. What am I going to do with that information right now? It's got to do another 200-300 miles at least until the season is up. Until that happens, anything inside the engine or hard to access on it, is going to stay the same.

 

 

but a desire to throw money at the car on things like fancy electronics and short shift levers.

 

A set of points and a condenser is fancy electronics?! Blimey, your mind is going to be blown if you knew what you can be done with electronics nowadays!

 

So what about the short shifter? It was 67 quid or about 84 bucks. That ain't gonna buy much in the way of engine repairs and doesn't exactly blow the budget stopping me doing major engine work.

 

Do you even read my posts before making these personal attacks?

 

I've spent a friggin' fair chunk of cash on this car to get it working as is now. Almost all of which have been essential things to get it working. Of which it is generally working well. Hence buying the odd trinket item is hardly the case of spending money in the wrong area and neglecting others...

 

 

10 minutes with a compression gauge would tell a lot more about the health of the engine than time spent swapping fluids or chasing the unattainable perfection in ignition timing

 

 

Again, the car is not with me. A compression check will require a 2.5hr roundtrip to the car to do it. It certainly ain't happening yet.

 

Also putting fluids in an engine are quite important?! If I don't put more engine oil in, it's going to run dry. Run dry as the oil is not staying in the engine oil system. You might not realise this but if the engine runs dry, it will be beyond fucked. Hence why it's a very important thing I refill the oil...

 

Ignition timing? In the last year I've touched it once. That was putting that replacement distributor in the other week, as the static timing needed to be set.

 

Anyhow you are the one who keeps telling me to tweak it! I've just kept it as is, as it runs just fine. Runs fine apart from the oil consumption but timing isn't going to make a massive difference on that.

 

 

Time for me to step away from this thread for now.

I don't mind people posting advice and in-fact I like it. Even if it's from being googled or read on a forum elsewhere. I'm quite happy in filtering useful from the not so useful.

 

However I do not like being belittled or attacked because I didn't follow someone's "advice" for one reason or another. This you have done a quite a few times - of which I've generally ignored. But it is really starting to grate.

 

 

 

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

31 minutes ago, SiC said:

As I've said previously, the car isn't even with me. So I can not do a compression reading.

I think he was just referring that doing one in general/when you pull the plugs next time would not be a bad idea and should not be much of a hassle especially if your already pulling the plugs 

 

31 minutes ago, SiC said:

A set of points and a condenser is fancy electronics?! Blimey, your mind is going to be blown if you knew what you can do with electronics nowadays!

I dont think He was referring to what you have fitted so far, but just referring to your general intention of fitting an electronic ignition setup and that he thinks it would not be such a great idea on such a car, 

I will say you might want to retract that second section, if you knew what his Day Job (and hobbies) entailed

 

31 minutes ago, SiC said:

Even if it did, so what? If it's low then the engine is knackered. If it's ok then it's leaking elsewhere and something else on the engine is knackered.

Great. What am I going to do with that information right now

it will at least give you an idea on whats gone wrong exactly and where to start when it does come to fixing the issue

and as such even if you cant do anything right now, you will have time to think with it and plan with it

 

I just noticed things getting a bit personal/hostile so just hoping to pacify things a little  (I do worry that genuine proper advice might be blown aside just because of the person its coming from)